No buffing system, quick options?

[Jamie Straw]

I'm spraying 4 bottle stoppers with lacquer, and they're a bit "not smooth" -- need to be buffed (or something?), but no buffing system this month. What are my options, to have them done in the next couple days? (Two are gifts, one just an extra, and then there's "Mr. Stubby" on the right -- not sure of his fate, didn't go well ) Note that they are currently mounted on square-head bolts for drying between light sprays of Deft. [Picture was taken 2 coats ago.]

 

[john lucas]

If you can still put them on the lathe hit them lightly with 4/0 steel wool and then rub wax into them. I just use Johnson's paste wax. It leaves a finish that looks a lot like a bees wax finish which is sort of one step up from a satin finish. I use that a lot on porous woods because it just flat out looks better than glossy.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I'm spraying 4 bottle stoppers with lacquer, and they're a bit "not smooth" -- need to be buffed (or something?), but no buffing system this month. What are my options, to have them done in the next couple days? (Two are gifts, one just an extra, and then there's "Mr. Stubby" on the right -- not sure of his fate, didn't go well ) Note that they are currently mounted on square-head bolts for drying between light sprays of Deft. [Picture was taken 2 coats ago.

Not smooth, how? overspray (dry dusty appearance), orange peel, runs and sags, pinholes and bubbles, sanding scratches showing, or something else? Some finishing problems are really wood preparation problems. If it is truly a finish problem, buffing isn't a great way to fix it. Buffing works best when the finish doesn't have any problems.

 

[john lucas]

I agree although I find that you can easily buff out minor orange peel. Unfortunately spraying outside like I have to and using a cheap sprayer I often get minor orange peel. I plan to solve that problem somehow in my new shop. However the reason I haven't spent a lot of time trying to solve it is that I often use the Beal system on my mirrors and found that the tripoli and a careful touch will take it right out. No Bill is definitely correct in that any lumps sags etc will only show up worse when you buff it. Wood preparation is of course absolutely paramount for a good finish.

 

[Michael Mendelsohn]

Buff with 4/0 steel wool and use Kiwi natural show polish. This is a harder wax than johnsons and will hold up longer.

 

[Jamie Straw]

...on the lathe

If you can still put them on the lathe hit them lightly with 4/0 steel wool and then rub wax into them. I just use Johnson's paste wax. It leaves a finish that looks a lot like a bees wax finish which is sort of one step up from a satin finish. I use that a lot on porous woods because it just flat out looks better than glossy.

It would be nice if I could mount them with those bolts. I worry about putting the mandrel in yet again, mostly in the spalted ones, but I'll probably do that. I take it the drill-mounted buffing goodies aren't a good idea? I may get the PSI buffing system in a couple weeks.

Re: wax -- I hesitate to wax stoppers that are gifts, since recipient not likely to re-wax down the road when the sheen wears.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Nothing drastic...

Not smooth, how? overspray (dry dusty appearance), orange peel, runs and sags, pinholes and bubbles, sanding scratches showing, or something else? Some finishing problems are really wood preparation problems. If it is truly a finish problem, buffing isn't a great way to fix it. Buffing works best when the finish doesn't have any problems.

Not any of the drastic problems, they just aren't smooth to touch (though they were better after sitting several hours). I sanded to 600 grit W/D paper, but no lubricant. Perhaps I should have used some water with Dawn? Shooting for a glossy finish is a new effort for moi.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Buff with 4/0 steel wool and use Kiwi natural show polish. This is a harder wax than johnsons and will hold up longer.

I'll try that with one that's a "keeper" -- prefer a more permanent finish for gifts. Thanks!

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

4/0 steel wool was my thought as well. I have found that a quick buff with that between coats helps tremendously. Renaissance Wax would be a great final finish.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Almost done

Well, I chucked the bolts up in spigot jaws and went with 0000 steel wool (Liberon, no oil) followed by 400 and 600 W/D with water/Dawn. That smoothed the two Mardone stoppers out nicely, and went ahead with Johnson's Paste Wax (just need to get these done!). The two spalted ones were just dull, so I'm spraying them with semi-gloss Deft, will follow with wax.

Two things apparent or suspected:

• For spalted wood, I'll need to develop an initial treatment that fills/smooths wood. It's not like it has holes in it, but it is soft and absorbs unevenly.
• Suspect that the gloss can of Deft had lost part of the solvent over the past week or two. Whenever I opened the cupboard it was in, I could smell solvent (not usually the case, all cans sealed tightly). The last 2 days, the Deft has been out on the countertop, and smell is gone. That could have made the spray ineffective at blending coats.
• Spray technique probably needs improvement, may be taking "light coat" a little to seriously

Will see what I can come up with for treating spalted stoppers to provide good base. Either thinned SealCoat (Al) or thinned lacquer (John). Used to always have SealCoat in the cupboard, but the last can had to get tossed (5 years....).

 

[Bill Boehme]

You can wet sand IF:

• There is no way for liquid to get to bare wood anywhere on the piece (like the hole on the bottom). Otherwise the wood will swell up in places.
• If you wet sand use automotive silicon carbide paper.
• Use plain water ... no need to make things messier than necessary by adding detergent.

You can dry sand with 400 after the lacquer has dried for a day or two and then shoot another coat of Deft. I usually go for at least four coats and occasionally a dozen or more.

When applying lacquer first give it a very light "tack" coat. Give it a few minutes for the VOC's to flash off and then apply a slightly heavier, but still very light coat. When spraying, start the spray off to the side and move the spray patter across the piece in a smooth motion. Give that coat enough time to feel dry. Give one more wet coat that gives just enough coverage that the surface seems wet and flows, but not one bit more or it may run or sag. Spraying lacquer in a rattle can (Deft doesn't rattle, but never mind that) takes a lot of practice and a lot of mistakes.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I am assuming the not smooth issue is only orange peel. The general cause of that is shooting a rattle can which has quicker drying properties and the material can't flow out before it drys.

If if you can chuck up the stopper, which allows you to use the lathe as the power and your hands as the buffer, and assuming there are enough coats of finish (Bill,is correct) try this.
start around 600 grit and sand lightly until there are no pits, generally a flat no reflective surface. You could also try 800 first, maybe even better, but if the pits are deeper, will take longer.
then go to 1000 and up. Generally, I would do 1000, 2000, 3000,4000. Wet is better as you don't get gunk balling up on the abrasive and it helps the abrasive last longer. You don't want to spin too fast so as to heat up the finish.
now use liquid automotive compounds, like a rubbing compound and a finish. The cheap route would be to use Stick Fast gloss polish for CA finish (Woodcraft and others) or Mirka polish sets at Woodcraft, but I don't like them as much.
i personally use the 3m system of rubbing compound and finish and swirl mark remover.
This is what I would recommend for non food use products you are making and want a high gloss. If you don't want high gloss, quit sanding around 2000 or so and skip the liquid compounds.

 

[Jamie Straw]

You can wet sand IF:

• There is no way for liquid to get to bare wood anywhere on the piece (like the hole on the bottom). Otherwise the wood will swell up in places.
• If you wet sand use automotive silicon carbide paper.
• Use plain water ... no need to make things messier than necessary by adding detergent.

You can dry sand with 400 after the lacquer has dried for a day or two and then shoot another coat of Deft. I usually go for at least four coats and occasionally a dozen or more.

When applying lacquer first give it a very light "tack" coat. Give it a few minutes for the VOC's to flash off and then apply a slightly heavier, but still very light coat. When spraying, start the spray off to the side and move the spray patter across the piece in a smooth motion. Give that coat enough time to feel dry. Give one more wet coat that gives just enough coverage that the surface seems wet and flows, but not one bit more or it may run or sag. Spraying lacquer in a rattle can (Deft doesn't rattle, but never mind that) takes a lot of practice and a lot of mistakes.

Thanks for the details on application, Bill. I've been following the can instructions (30 mins between coats), I'll try your method next time. Yes, I only use the wet/dry ("W/D" in my posts) paper for this -- in my flat-work days, I did a fair amount of wet-sanding. For this, I used a narrow strip, dipped in the water, but not sloshing wet, I think the bolt would block any water that might work it's way onto the stopper, but stopper really wasn't very wet when it stopped spinning.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Not orange peel, thankfully...

I am assuming the not smooth issue is only orange peel. The general cause of that is shooting a rattle can which has quicker drying properties and the material can't flow out before it drys.

If if you can chuck up the stopper, which allows you to use the lathe as the power and your hands as the buffer, and assuming there are enough coats of finish (Bill,is correct) try this.
start around 600 grit and sand lightly until there are no pits, generally a flat no reflective surface. You could also try 800 first, maybe even better, but if the pits are deeper, will take longer.
[Snip]

I'm sure the protocol you described will come in handy down the road, Steve, I hope to have a project worthy of 4000 grit! Just to be clear, though, this wasn't "orange peel" (unless it was microscopic). Looking back, I really think (a) I didn't spray quite right (see Bill's instructions) and (b) the mixture in the can no longer had enough solvent to merge one coat with the previous one. This whole thread will go in my finishing notebook, thanks!