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Newbie Questions about checking on small objects

Joined
Mar 2, 2007
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Manhattan Ks
Website
toysmakeuspowerful.com
Here's my situation:
1) I'm a complete noob to turning (this is basically my first project
ever, and I've never actually seen anyone use a lathe before)

2) I have some 5" or so diameter walnut logs I was going to do some
bowyering with (but they ended up with too many knots) that have been
sitting in my driveway for 10 months. The ends were checked about an
inch into the wood, but the rest seemed reasonable for what I wanted
to do.

3) Goal: nice small project that I can finish without getting terribly
frustrated that isn't pens (pens just don't do it for me). I decided
to try to make some small sake cups (essentially a 2"x2" or so
shotglass).

So, what I did was cut off a foot from the end of the log, ran it over
the jointer to make 3 sides with 90 degree faces, then quartered it on
the table saw. I then cut off the checked ends, and cut the 4
quarters into 4" long blanks to give me plenty of room to work with.

I turned my blanks round between centers, drilled out a 1.5" deep
starter hole with a forstner bit on the drill press, then chucked up
what I had on the lathe with a self-centering chuck. I scraped out
the inside, shaped the outside, sanded both, then used a parting tool
to cut the basically finished piece off.

I was fairly pleased with what I got as a first attempt, but figured I
could do better, so I just set that aside as-is for a few days. After
observing it for a bit, I am a bit puzzled. I can perceive absolutely
no checking on my finished cup, and I didn't do anything on it to
prevent checking. The end of the log that I cut my starter piece from
is already checking badly at this point.

So.. the real questions:
1) Do small things such as tiny bowls or pens not check? (or not check as badly?)
2) In another month am I going to see checking on my cup?
3) If 2) is true, if I polyurethane my cup now, would it then not check since no more moisture could escape?
4) Would my results be a lot different if I was using very green wood?

And one question related to my project, but not the checking:
5) After I part my piece off, is there any convenient way of sanding the bottom (or turning a divot)? Turning it around in the chuck will scratch it all up. Here are the ideas I've come up with:
a) rubberized chuck jaws or strips of rubber between the jaw and the piece
b) hot glue + face plate (centering would seem to be an awful chore if I wanted to make say... 80 of these)
c) jam chuck (I'd have to make all of them exactly the same time if I wanted to make several)

Anyway, I hope these questions aren't TOO basic, and I was trying to get opinions from as many people as I can (as from what I've seen so far, there can be several different opinions on some of these questions).
 
Joined
May 4, 2005
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Location
Derby, Kansas, USA
Checking

Sounds like the wood was still wet.

If so - nothing will stop the remaining moisture loss. The urethane will not stop the moisture exchange as well as shellac.

As for ideas of what to turn for first projects,

1. Try a book Keith Rowley's "Foundations of Woodturning" is a great one.

2. Google on Google Images various phrases such as turned wood etc etc Google on the web engine also. You will come up with lots of inspiration.

3. Check out the Gallery on this board and the other turning boards. Always a good source of inspiration.

John

:) :)
 
Joined
May 29, 2004
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Location
billerica, ma
The single best thing you can do is to track down your nearest AAW club and give the president a call. If it runs true to form, you'll have someone in your shop with you within days to start the mentoring process. Worse comes to worst, you may actually have to travel to someone elses shop but I can guarantee it would be worth quite a drive.

Alot of your questions will be answered with time and experience but here's some quick, offhand truisms.

Green wood will move or check, usually in very consistant ways depending on grain orientation. Different woods will move at different rates/amounts and with very different tendancies to check (fruitwoods check if you give them a dry look, nutwoods are fairly stable).

Leaving the pith in will almost guarantee checking, as the wood density is very different towards the center and that difference will act as a splitting wedge. If, however, you center the pith and turn it consistantly thin along with the rest of the piece, this will reduce the risk of checking. If you orient the piece side grain and turn away/cut away the pith you reduce the likelyhood of checking greatly.

Rough turning a piece, allowing significant drying time (3-4 months per 1/4" or so) then finish turning it is a good way to maintain a round piece. Otherwise, it will move and distort (if it is side grain. end grain will remain round but become narrower). If you do this, rough turn to a thickness about 10% of the diameter of the piece (i.e. a 10" blank should be turned to about 1" thick). Otherwise, the piece will move sufficient to make it unroundable.

And, finally, CALL YOUR NEAREST AAW CHAPTER IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the vortex,
Dietrich
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
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Tallahassee FL
First, as said, green wood will check if it can. The reason yours haven't (yet) is likely that you've formed a dome shape. This has allowed the tangential tension stress caused by differential drying to be transformed into flexural stress along the arches of the dome. No guarantee this will save them forever, though.

Second, to finish the bottoms, a simple way to do this is to attach a piece of plywood to a faceplate. Face the plywood perpendicular to the lathe axis, and turn a groove to mate with the rim of the turned piece. Set the rim into the groove to keep it centered, and wrap duct tape around to the back of the faceplate. For production turning, a set of inside and/or outside calipers should enable you to make the rim diameters consistent. It's a good idea to turn the bottom with a recess inside the rim; this helps to keep the cup/bowl level as it continues drying and warping.

Third, by all means, join a local woodturning club. You'll find that woodturners are some of the friendliest folks you'll ever meet. There are three AAW chapters in Kansas. The one in Topeka is likely closest for you. Boink "AAW Local Chapters" in the menu on this site's opening page for addresses.

Welcome aboard.

Joe
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
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Manhattan Ks
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toysmakeuspowerful.com
Joe Greiner said:
First, as said, green wood will check if it can. The reason yours haven't (yet) is likely that you've formed a dome shape. This has allowed the tangential tension stress caused by differential drying to be transformed into flexural stress along the arches of the dome. No guarantee this will save them forever, though.

Ahh... I think this is a winner. I can now detect some outward flexing in the middle. No loss on this one, I had intended on tossing it before I started, I was just puzzled.


For production turning, a set of inside and/or outside calipers should enable you to make the rim diameters consistent.

On my wish-list already. I've already blown my toy budget for the next month or two :)

Third, by all means, join a local woodturning club. You'll find that woodturners are some of the friendliest folks you'll ever meet. There are three AAW chapters in Kansas. The one in Topeka is likely closest for you. Boink "AAW Local Chapters" in the menu on this site's opening page for addresses.

Topeka is the closest, it's just difficult for me to arrange the 1hr (one way) trip with my current schedule. Currently I am doing my woodworking in odd half-hours I scrounge between work and the 3 other clubs/organizations that monopolize my time :)

Speaking of which... I should probably post a picture of my first finished sake cup. I did the microwave drying method on a rough-turned blank (well.. 11 blanks, actually) last night, and finish turned it over my lunch break today.
 
Joined
May 29, 2004
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billerica, ma
You should give the Topeka crowd a call. Chances are that there are some members alot closer to home than the one hour drive. It is actually pretty unusual to not get offers for shop visits and mentoring. Also, wouldn't surprise me a bit if someone from the club didn't offer to drive over from Topeka. We woodturners are just kinda screwy that way.

Dietrich :cool2:
 

Sky

Joined
Nov 7, 2006
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Location
Coconut Creek, Fl
Join the AAW if you haven't allready. There most likely are a few other members in your area. Every time I travel I look in the AAW directory & call turners in the area to swap wood , knowledge, ror have a turnfest while there. :cool2:
 
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