New woodturning tool 6" & 8" bowlsaw

[Bob Collins]

I had the privilege of evaluating Dick Steussy's bowlsaws and found them easy and safe to use turning 2 bowls from one 7" blank and 3 bowls from a 9" blank. Inexpensive and great for the hobbyist and serious turner, would pay for itself in no time with the wood saved and with minimum sawdaust to clean up.

More information can be seen on www.bowlsaw.com

This is an American invention made in America I just happen to be an Aussie lucky enough try one out.

Bob.

 

[Tony K. in NC]

Call me crazy

but that thing looks to me like if it get in a bind behind there it might hurt a little, as far as i can tell all it would take to bind it up is letting that blade twist by either dropping or raising the handle a hair. just my opinion but if others have experience and not had this problem would love to hear. Looks great sounds great and if people say it is safe it could be quite tempting.

 

[n7bsn]

Tony
If you check the endorsements, you will note names I'm certain you will recognize. I know I did.

The the thing scares me too and I would want to learn more, before I try it.

TTFN
Ralph

 

[john lucas]

Based on the responses on different forum's the tool seems to work as advertised and no one has had any trouble with catches.
Personally I just don't turn bowls of that shape so it's useless to me.

 

[Tim Root]

Bowlsaw

I like the idea, and I suspect you could take a core from a blank and then reshape the outer "parent" if you did a little prior planning or were taking the core from a much larger bowl blank.

 

[Scott Blackman]

From the "How to.." section. You are sawing the bottom with the power off. Thus turning it by hand. Not much danger there. A bit slower though.

Scott

 

[Grant Wilkinson]

Scott: He says to start it by hand, then turn the lathe on at a slow speed

 

[Scott Blackman]

I stand corrected. I think it would catch then and could be interesting.

Scott

 

[Bob Collins]

Once you have cut the groove to the required depth you turn your lathe speed down to it's lowest approximately 500rpm. The initial cut it then done by hand turning, when the lathe is turned on at this low speed there is little chance of danger unless the turner loses concentration or doesn't read the instructions and even then if there is a catch the saw will grip the wood and stop it revolving. The only danger I can see is if the turner tries to core the bowl at high speed but it would be minimal.

In regards shaping the bowls, once you are experienced with this tool, you can experiment with shaping, start with a larger blank, make a larger groove sloping one way of the other, or leave some width on each bowl and shape later. As with any new tool it will be experience and confidence that will help produce what you want.

I have turned 12 bowls using both the 6" and 8" bowlsaw and have found it an excellent tool, easy and safe to use.

 

[Joe Greiner]

It looks well-engineered to me. And I noticed at least one familiar name in the testimonials.

As you say, the slow hand turning is just to establish the kerf. The saw cuts on a pull "stroke," Japanese style, so with proper geometry and substantial tooth set there shouldn't be much drama. Except for the learning curve, of course.

For maximum design freedom, I might want longer shanks, to allow deeper shapes. The new blanks could then be whatever crosses my brain. The nested contraptions seem to dictate only one generic shape, basically spherical. He posts his phone number on one of the pages, but I haven't called yet. Unhandled might be available, perhaps at a different price; the existing prices look good too.

AFAICT, the business about the Forstner bit has nothing to do with use of the bowl saw. Bob's countryman, Cliff Rogers, posted something about it at woodworkforums in Oz, to use the same chuck for both sides of the blank; expansion on one side, either way on the other. I halfway tried it on a piece recently, but it didn't end up as a bowl, so no assessment yet.

Just out of curiosity, I browsed the US Patent Office database, and found Steussy's patent #5403129 for a drill press swinging jig. It might, or might not, be related. But it indicates thoughtful design. Google patents has a better download; one file pdf.

Thanks for the heads up, Bob.

Joe

 

[Odie]

For coring, it seems to me there are only three ways to do it.

1. Straight plunge, as in a cone.

2. Conventional, with a curved semi-circular blade, such as the many coring tools currently on the market.

3. The bowlsaw, which by design, necessarily leaves a flat bottom and vertical sides.

Is there any other?

Looks to me like all of them leave the turner with a shape that is pretty much necessitated by the method of removal.....and, this is the main reason why I have never been interested in coring. I suppose all of these coring methods would allow some artistic creativity if the parent bowl and subsequent interior bowls remain very thick sided, but this seems to negate the purpose of coring in the first place. Any interior bowl will be left pretty small for normal sized parent bowls that are left thick. I'm just not interested in coring, if it means expense, time, and effort to produce small bowls that limit artistic freedom. Small bowl blanks are cheap, and easy to get.

I realize I'm not representative of the woodturning community as a whole, so I'm giving my comment with the understanding there will be those who see coring as something they wish to do.

Since we are on a public forum, I hope Bob will understand that honest comment and thought is it's purpose. There are just too many inventions in the woodturning community for any of us to try them all out, so without actual hands-on experience, we all must hear other's comment, think for ourself, evaluate and analyze based on that.

otis of cologne

 

[Gordon Seto]

I suppose all of these coring methods would allow some artistic creativity if the parent bowl and subsequent interior bowls remain very thick sided, but this seems to negate the purpose of coring in the first place. Any interior bowl will be left pretty small for normal sized parent bowls that are left thick. I'm just not interested in coring, if it means expense, time, and effort to produce small bowls that limit artistic freedom. Small bowl blanks are cheap, and easy to get.

Have you looked at this?
Mike Mahoney 10 Piece Box Elder Burl Set (12"x10")
10 bowls in 12" blank shouldn't be too thick.
We all have our taste, some like thicker walls. My wife doesn't want me to pick up the delicate turnings at the show & tell, for fear that they may crumble in my hands. I believe some buyers would have the same thinking as hers. Some may go for more substantial bowls for casual display.

 

[Wipedout]

Bob

How about posting some pictures of the bowls you have made with it?

You know what they say - a picture is worth a thousand words 🙂

 

[Odie]

Have you looked at this?
Mike Mahoney 10 Piece Box Elder Burl Set (12"x10")
10 bowls in 12" blank shouldn't be too thick.
We all have our taste, some like thicker walls. My wife doesn't want me to pick up the delicate turnings at the show & tell, for fear that they may crumble in my hands. I believe some buyers would have the same thinking as hers. Some may go for more substantial bowls for casual display.

Hi Gordon........

I'm not sure what you're trying to point out to me.......I've seen nested bowls before. Mike Mahoney is a top notch lathe turner, and I've got a lot of respect for him, his work, and teaching abilities.

The photo you've pointed out shows a prime example of what I've tried to explain in my previous post. Those bowls are all basically the same shape, and I assume the tools he used to core the interior bowls will continue to produce the exact same shape.......forever! If he had cored them a little thicker, it would give some additional artistic license.......but, of course, I'm not talking about nested bowls. Understand that when I mention thicker cored bowls, I'm not talking about the finished product......I'm pointing out that thicker roughed bowl blanks are more likely to promote creativity in it's final shape, over one that is cored thin......although, the final product may very well be thin.

I hope you can understand what I'm driving at here........All this is purely up to the individual, and the choices he makes. You're very correct that all of us will have our own tastes, and I stated that there will be those who will want to produce bowls on a coring device......I've got no problem with those that do. I'm just not one of them, for the reasons I've stated.

OOC

 

[Bob Collins]

G'day Wipeout. I have placed some photos of bowls turned using the 6" and 8" bowlsaw. The 2 platters for the cake stand were also done from one 9" blank. These are on my album.

These bowls have not been polished as yet, damn hot down here in Aussie and the shop is like a sweat shop.

 

[Bob Collins]

G'day Odie, I understand what you are saying and great to read your comments and your thought on coring. With Gordon refering to the nest of bowls which were made using an expensive addition to the lathe I think we are getting away from what the original thread was about.

I evaluated the bowlsaw as an inexpensive tool that is in the reach of every woodturner either hobbyist or a serious turner. The smallest bowl I have ended up with so far is 5" diam 2" deep which I made a fitted lid for and is now an attractive box.

This evening I started with a 9"-10" blank, leaving an 1" for the parent bowl and with the groove for the bowlsaw I was left with a good 6" bowl as seconds. As people get confident and experince with the bowl saw I'm sure they will find alternative uses for it.

Enjoyed your photos of Vietnam, I was there in 1968 with Australian Forces.

Bob C.

 

[Bob Collins]

G'day Joe, When doing my evaluation I thought along the same lines as you in regard the longer shaft to give the user the freedom to turn deeper bowls
or vases. I have been informed that the longer shafts can be ordered as required. Cheaper if purchased without handle, this is a saving on weight for frieght to Australia.

I have been experimenting with larger blanks leaving wider rims on the parent bowl for shaping or ornamental work as required. Still have a reasonable size second bowl. Am finding it a great tool for the hobbyist such as myself.

Bob.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

Based on the responses on different forum's the tool seems to work as advertised and no one has had any trouble with catches.
Personally I just don't turn bowls of that shape so it's useless to me.

I agree with John. I core out most of my salad bowls, with the smallest diameter I core about 12". The McNaughton center saver works fine for me. I might want to try a Oneway e-z core someday too.
P.S. I cored the box elder nested bowl set that is shown in my avatar with a McNaughton.

 

[john lucas]

I just spent the weekend watching Mike Mahoney core with the McNaughton system. Using different cutters during the cut he was able to get just about any shape he wanted. He made it look easy of course but said that it did require a learning curve. He would start the cut with one cutter and proceed in watching how it matched the outside shape. When it looked like that cutter would not follow the correct path he switched to another cutter and then then continued on following the outside shape.
The cutters are inline with the center of the handle so you can sort of visualize where they are going.
Here is a set of bowls that he did this weekend. Please excuse the photo I did it in a hurry. I'm mailing these to the owner because he couldn't carry them on the plane.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

Last September I went up to Craft Supplies to get my lathe. But first I called Mike and asked him if it would work to watch him in his shop. He said that it would work. So after I picked up the lathe, I went and watched him make natural edge nested bowl sets. He was turning them out of madrone, cherry and red and brown mallee. All of them were burls. It was quite interesting to watch him. He was working like usual in his shop, and you could get different details than you ever could anywhere else.

 

[Bob Collins]

G'day Wyatt and John, Happy you are both getting great results from the McNaughton System but how may hobby turners can afford this attachment and how many have a lathe large enough to cater for it. I would say the majority of hobby turners would have a mini or midi lathe.

I have found that owning a 6" and 8" bowlsaw which are quite reasonably priced, will get me 3 bowls from a 9" blank leaving a rim wide enough to shape and do ornamental work. I admit the third bowl is small but can be made in to a novelty box with a fitted lid, specially if the blank has some depth to it.

Before the bowlsaw, after a session of turning I would look at the shed floor at all the wood shavings and wonder why all this beautiful wood has to be wasted. I now has the answer and it is available to all wood turners.

bobcol

 

[Rob Wallace]

Similar experiences....Bowlsaw Review

I've been swamped with work since the start of the Spring semester, but a cancelled all-afternoon meeting today leaves me with an unusual block of "me" time, and I thought I'd just contribute our group's experience with the bowl saw that I demoed at our turners meeting last month (December 2008).

Dick was kind enough to send a 6" version of the Bowlsaw to try out. In my shop, I first used it on blanks of wet wood, dry wood, and "in-between" wood, just to practice. I can say I was skeptical about its performance, but approached it as I do all new turning innovations - whether it will work for ME and improve what I already do now...

I can say that after going through 4-5 blanks, the bowl saw does what it says it can do. It is a pretty fast learning curve and not too difficult to use the first time if the directions are followed (...especially the part about getting the kerf started NOT under power, but by hand turning the blank). The best performance was on dry blanks, although when I demoed the tool at our meeting (on dry walnut), I did manage to get the blade sufficiently hot as to generate smoke. Perhaps I was trying too hard, pushing or pulling while rotating to force the side of the blade against the wood, or something else. Despite this heating, the blanks were cut fairly well, and quite efficiently. With wet or "damp" wood, the shavings tended to gather in the saw kerf, and these had to be blown-out several times to continue the cut.

Comments about the Bowlsaw received from our club's members included:

1. "The wood had better be pretty expensive to make it worthwhile to take the time to cut out the center; you could quickly hollow then entire center of a 6" bowl in just a few minutes without all the trouble" (...given that most of our members use local "free" wood, and lost wood in shavings out of a 6" bowl are really nothing to be concerned about).

2. "You had better like the straight sided shape of the bowl; probably can't change this too much." Most agreed this was not an appealing shape.

3. "What happens if you hit a knot or get a catch while the blade is embedded in the kerf? Just seems too dangerous to have the blade in there with no easy 'escape' possible."

4. "Can it be sharpened, or do you just discard it and start over?"

Some of these questions have been covered and others remain. I think it is an interesting woodturning innovation, and although I do frequently use the McNaughton coring system when I need to save time or wood, I can see some possible future uses for the Bowlsaw in trying to save particularly pricey wood from the center of blanks if the blanks' size and geometry are right.

Thanks, Dick, for the opportunity to test this tool and show it to our club members.....!

Cheers,

Rob Wallace

 

[Wyatt Holm]

G'day Wyatt and John, Happy you are both getting great results from the McNaughton System but how may hobby turners can afford this attachment and how many have a lathe large enough to cater for it. I would say the majority of hobby turners would have a mini or midi lathe.

I have found that owning a 6" and 8" bowlsaw which are quite reasonably priced, will get me 3 bowls from a 9" blank leaving a rim wide enough to shape and do ornamental work. I admit the third bowl is small but can be made in to a novelty box with a fitted lid, specially if the blank has some depth to it.

Before the bowlsaw, after a session of turning I would look at the shed floor at all the wood shavings and wonder why all this beautiful wood has to be wasted. I now has the answer and it is available to all wood turners.

bobcol

McNaughton just come out with their new Micro Center Saver. It is designed for mini lathes. I want to get it sometime and use it on my Vicmarc for natural edge nested bowl sets. Your bowlsaw might be useful to me if I was making a lot of boxes out of fancy wood. Square sided bowls look strange to me, but if you could use it on boxes it would be a useful tool.
edit: I have looked into making my own blades for the McNaughton and I don't think it would be to difficult. Bending the steel would be the part that is more of a challenge. I think it could be easily done.

 

[john lucas]

wyatt I think bending the steel will be quite easy. I'm currently in the process of building a bending jig. It's just like the little wire benders they sell but super sized. I think I can easily bend up to 5/8" and maybe 3/4 depending on the leverage bars I use.
The Mcnauton system uses bars that are 3/8" or less so I don't think they will be hard to do. I can braze or silver solder the tip on but I think I'm going to try a carbide cutter.
Making the swiveling guide will take a little doing but shouldn't be hard since I have a Smithy 3 in on mill drill lathe.
Now when I'll have time to do this is another thing all together.

 

[Bob Collins]

McNaughton just come out with their new Micro Center Saver. It is designed for mini lathes. I want to get it sometime and use it on my Vicmarc for natural edge nested bowl sets. Your bowlsaw might be useful to me if I was making a lot of boxes out of fancy wood. Square sided bowls look strange to me, but if you could use it on boxes it would be a useful tool.
edit: I have looked into making my own blades for the McNaughton and I don't think it would be to difficult. Bending the steel would be the part that is more of a challenge. I think it could be easily done.

I have found if I start with bigger and deeper blank, say 10" diam & over 3" deep I can leave a larger rim on the initial bowl for shaping or ornamenal work
and still have a good sized second bowl that can be shaped. Agree using smaller blanks the box shape is the norm but doesn't using the expensive McNaughtoms limit you to the one shape of bowl per blank or can you change the cut as you go?

Hope you realise I am looking at this as a hobbyist. bobcol.

 

[john lucas]

I just watched Mike Mahoney use the McNauton system and he was able to change the shape as he went. According to him you can previsualize the shape you want and proceed from there. there seem to be limits to how much you can change the shape but it seems pretty versatile. You may have to change cutters midstream to change the shape but it only takes a few seconds and several more dollars for all the cutters. Of course if you start with a $400 bowl blank then it easily pays for itself. I generally start with free wood so the only real problem for me is getting rid of the shavings not saving the middle.

 

[Hugh]

John,
Are you bending drill rod? Are you using heat to make the bending easier?
Hugh

 

[n7bsn]

Hugh, I'm not John, but....

Drill rod is way to hard to bend cold, heck I doubt I could bend it hot. Well, I could but it would wreck the hardness.

If I were making a set of Kelton style tools, I would start with a good chunk of plain steel. You want strength and toughness, not hardness. You need a steel that will take punishment, and not shatter (emm, HY80?, where did I put those pieces..)

That means that you need to attach a cutting tip to the tool (which is what John is talking about)

TTFN
Ralph

 

[john lucas]

You can bend drill rod cold but it is hard to do. It's tough stuff. I usually heat it to bend it. For the NcNauton system you need rectangular steel and it doesn't need to be hardened. I haven't looked into it very far yet but it looks like 1/4" x 1" wide would be a good starting place for medium to small tools.
That can be bent fairly easily if you apply some leverage. I do have a forge that I can use if I have to.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

Thanks John,
I wasn't planning on building the swivel assembly. I thought I could just build new blades, and different shapes the McNaughton does not make. As for changing the shape of the core, I usually decide which shape it will be before I start to core, and if there is a major problem then I will change the path as I go. How do you build your bending jig John?

 

[john lucas]

Wyatt I haven't started on the bending jig yet. I have a piece of steel 6" x 4" x 1 1/2 thick. I'm going to drill4 holes in it to hold 3/4" pins. I will clamp this in my metal vice and then put the bar between 2 or more pins and bend it with a pipe as leverage. I have a very small wire bender that works off this principal and it works great. I did a test by clamping 2 3/4" rods about an inch apart in my vice and then made a wooden piece to hole the top together. It worked pretty well up until the rods started to slip sideways in the vice. This gave me the confidence to go ahead and build the full size piece. I just haven't had the time to do it yet.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

When you get it finished, can I see a picture? That usually explains more than your description.

 

[john lucas]

I will post it. It might be few weeks. When the weather is this cold I don't get a whole lot of work done in the shop. I'm also teaching a class this weekend which will eat up some time.
Here is a photo of the wire bending jig that I use constantly. This one has 1/4" pins. By removing the pins or placing them in different holes you can control the bends. I plan to supersize it.