new Beall buff owner, lotsa questions

[oledirty]

I recently purchased my first buff. A beall Buff set up. I understand the main concept of buffing, but have many questions.

Is the Tripoli and white diamond just two more "sanding" steps? And the wax is the final product i am guessing?

I also have some confusion as to what "oil" to use. Someone told me that tung oil is really good, but I am finding several versions of tung oil. I bought Formby's tung oil finish, then realized that it wouldn't be ideal for what i want to do (pens mostly). I also learned that pure tung oil is kinda hard to get i guess?

The young lady at the Beall place that answered the phone suggested Minwax "Antique oil"?

And how would it work out to buff something that was finished with Mylands friction, or HUTT PPP?

And what about using micro mesh? would that make the wood too smooth to hold the wax or oil?

And lastly, what about CA finish? can, or should it be buffed?

Please help me! I am very excited to finally buff some of my work to see it shine for real! I am sick of the friction polishes rubbing off after just a few months.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[oledirty]

oh yeah, i almost forgot... has anyone turned Mulberry? I recently got a whole tree of it, and the mikly stuff is kinda freaking me out.

 

[Al Neighbors]

I recently purchased my first buff. A beall Buff set up. I understand the main concept of buffing, but have many questions.

Is the Tripoli and white diamond just two more "sanding" steps? And the wax is the final product i am guessing?

I also have some confusion as to what "oil" to use. Someone told me that tung oil is really good, but I am finding several versions of tung oil. I bought Formby's tung oil finish, then realized that it wouldn't be ideal for what i want to do (pens mostly). I also learned that pure tung oil is kinda hard to get i guess?

The young lady at the Beall place that answered the phone suggested Minwax "Antique oil"?

And how would it work out to buff something that was finished with Mylands friction, or HUTT PPP?

And what about using micro mesh? would that make the wood too smooth to hold the wax or oil?

And lastly, what about CA finish? can, or should it be buffed?

Please help me! I am very excited to finally buff some of my work to see it shine for real! I am sick of the friction polishes rubbing off after just a few months.

Thanks in advance for the help!

You're right about the Tripoli and White Diamond being additional steps. Hint: don't apply too much pressure, and let the rouges do their work.
If it doesn't say 100% tung oil, it isn't. Antique Oil is too sticky for my usage. I use Tung Oil as a sanding medium, thinned to 50/50 with Mineral Spirits. Any Oil will make the grain "pop". Many times, I just sand to 600 grit without oil, and then buff the wood. Try it sometimes... it'll work beautifully.
I buy 100% Tung Oil at our local lumber yard. I ask them to order it for me and they do. I use marbles to keep the can full to the brim after I've removed just enough for the job at hand. Air in the can will allow it to jell more quickly, making it unusable.
I also use Danish Oil. Tung Oil gives a more lasting finish. I think both will truly cure in a few days time after the last coat.
I don't know about the friction polishes or hutt.
Micromesh? Good stuff, for what it is intended for... getting a really smooth finish, and lasts a really long time, with washing.
In my opinion, there's nothing such as "too smooth". 🙂
CA finish can be buffed. I hope you'll try buffing bare wood that's been sanded 'too smooth'. 😀
Hope this helps a little.

 

[GeorgeH]

I'm new to the Beall System too. I've found that, in the beginning, I wasn't turning the buffing wheels fast enough. When I spoke with the lady at their HQ she told me "faster is better" and suggested something in the highest RPM range for my lathe. Woodcraft has the tung oil you're looking for.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=768

I use the buffers with a light touch (but a STRONG hold cuz those turned pieces will jump out of your hand in a nano ...) and light on the rouge load. Light touch, light rouge, high speed. As previously stated, even the bare wood (especially when it's very hard wood) finishes up beautifully.

I think the micro-mesh works best when used in progressive grits on an orbital tool. But that's just my opinion; you may find a different method that suits your needs better.

 

[Tom Lewis]

I have turned a lot of mulberry. This time of year when the sap has risen you will get a lot of the white milky sap. If you look at the end of a piece I think you will notice the sap comes from the tree layer right under the bark. Once you get past that part of the tree, sap should not be that much of a problem.
I treat mulberry like most other green woods, I rough turn, let it season then turn to a final shape. I have found I need to leave the pieces extra thick because it sure will warp as it dries.

 

[Tom Lewis]

Here is a picture of a mulbery platter. I finished it with Waco Danish Oil, then used the Beal buffing system on it.

 

[Marc Himes]

I haven't made any pens, but I use the Beall system on most of my turnings as the final step before applying the finish. I like wipe on poly and General Finish's Salad Bowl finish. I have used tung oil also. I like to use the buffing system between coats of finish and after the last coat. I don't use Carnuba was because on prior pieces the finish became cloudy after 6-8 months. Using the finishes mentioned, I don't feel a need to wax. Buffing the wood after turning gives it an amazingly smooth surface. Many people don't believe that it just wood without a finish. I am sure you will enjoy the Beall System.

 

[john lucas]

Well I disagree about the speed. I use 4" wheels and buff at about 1000 rpm. Now if you compare that to the 8" wheels at 1750 rpm that many people use you will see that I'm at less than half the surface speed they use. Based on comments by my friends I have better than average finishes.
I use a light touch and let the abrasives do their work. I like the slower speeds because there is less chance of having the work snatched from my hand.
I have only used Boiled Linseed oil as a finish in the oil category. I use mostly lacquer and Minwax wipe on poly for my finishes.
Mulberry is great, you will like it.

 

[MichaelMouse]

It's sanding for all practical purposes. You're running an abrasive over a finished surface for the purpose of making smaller scratches, or wood to remove the sharp edges of pores and stomata. All the basic rules apply. More friction comes from greater pressure, and heat comes from friction, which means you can melt finishes like shellac or softer oil finishes like long oil types or those which have not fully cured, whether homemade or purchased. Faster speeds bring more abrasive grains to the same spot in the same time, so the impatient can get their surface faster if they remember to hold on tight against the exponential increase in kinetic energy. I suppose the less-rigid nature of some buffs might benefit from keeping the radial speed up, but the way to do that is with a light touch. Too many people go too fine too soon and suffer consequences. Better to level with coarser abrasive if required.

As mentioned, there's no end to what you can do to a finish, but the wood itself could be burnished just fine with the bare muslin. Or my favorite, a brown paper bag. Not the recycled ones, which tend to include a bit more trash, but the ones in the 10 lb range where the paper is smooth and thin.

 

[Malcolm Smith]

You have lots of questions so this series should run for a while. A few suggestions - Any can or jar that doesn't clearly state what it contains should be avoided as some oils change color over time. I haven't found much reason to use anything other than tung oil which I cut with thinner 50/50. As for the Beal system the speed in the first two steps, buffing, what ever you are comfortable with seems fine. The main thing is not to have the bowl sent across the room. How you hold it is important. The final wax step is where the speed has to be increased. Not much wax is needed and it's difficult to judge the right amount. The wax is applied when the heat generated is sufficient to soften or melt it. The system works very well. There are differences in the result depending on what type of wood you are turning. I turn very dense tropical hardwoods and it seems ideal for this. My favorite is pink ivory which is an extremely dense hardwood that finishes very well. Softer woods such as koa and mahogany present a different set of problems and probaly require more patience when the oil is drying. I usually apply a couple of coats of thinned tung oil with lots of time allowed for it to dry before moving on to the Beal system.

Hope this is helpful. If you go to a conference where they have a lot of work displayed. Observe the different finishes turners use. We don't all agree on what the end result should be.

Malcolm Smith.

 

[Donna Banfield]

Beal Buffing

Like John Lucas, I use the Beal 8" wheels, but don't use a very high speed, either. I buff mostly bowls and platters and run the lathe speed between 900 and 1200. Running at a very high speed keeps the wheels too stiff for me, and I like the wheels to be able to open up just a little while I'm buffing my pieces out. It's also easier to launch your pieces into a wall, if the wheels are running faster, too!

I guess the best thing you can do is to ask the questions, and try out some of the suggestions, to see what works best for you. There are many different ways to accomplish the same thing, and you'll learn by doing what works the best in your situation.

And about the Mulberry, it's very nice wood to turn, but UV light will take that nice bright golden color, and change it to a 'burnt amber'. It's not a bad color change, IMHO, but some people may not care for it. As far as I know, the only way to keep it from darkening, is to never let it see the 'light of day'.

 

[Malcolm Smith]

Interesting comment about wood changing when exposed to daylight. I mentioned that I turn pink ivory. Perhaps more than any other, this wood looses it's beautiful color when exposed to daylight. I always warn the people I give the bowls to. Bloodwood, an alternative though not nearly as nice, seems to be very stable.

Many woods simply darken or lighten. What's seems like a loss is woods that are an unusual color which changes to regular wood color. A store carrying a lot of wood turnings in my area had a pink ivory bowl which, if I remember correctly, was turned by John Jordan. Alas, they had it in the window. I would not have known what the wood was.

Malcolm Smith.

 

[Odie]

In my opinion, the Beall buff system is an outstanding product for woodturners.

At one time, there was another thread on this topic, and someone suggested having surgeon's gloves on hand for a sure grip during the buffing process. I do, and since then I don't think I've had one bowl ripped from my hands. This was a great suggestion, and thanks for that, whoever you are that suggested it.

I've mounted an old lathe motor on a pedestal for my Beall buffing. It's 1725rpm, and that speed seems to work very well. As someone else suggested a slower speed, that might be a good suggestion, but all I've ever used is the 1725.

Because wood species is so diverse, some woods take to a finish better than others, but I've come to use the Danish Oil almost exclusively for my work. I haven't had any wood come out with a poor looking finish with it. I'm one who likes to settle in to one, or a couple ways of doing things.......rather than to do my bowls differently all the time!

Here is an example of Oregon Myrtle that I thought turned out outstanding......using Danish Oil and the Beall system:

otis of cologne

 

[john lucas]

One thing we never discuss is how to buff. It's extremely important to always burr in a direction so the wheel can't grab the piece. This takes experience because I don't really know how to tell you to do it. It's kind of like carving down hill with the grain.
On my mirrors for example it's important to work from the center out to the edge. If you try to start at an edge it will grab it . I also move the wood away from the buffer before I shift my hands. On natural or rough edge bowls always buff toward the outer edge. If you start from the rough edge in it will either grab the bowl or tear off the bark.
I visited the Gibson guitar factory and they buff at very high speed with large wheels. Of course these guys have lots of experience. They buff from the center panels out to the edges and then will buff from the center back to the sound hole. I'm going to try to go back and see if they will let me do a short article on how they buff their instruments. I think the turning community would find that intersting.
I'm going to start a new thread on the UV affects of wood. I think a lot of people can contribute and it should be interesting.

 

[Odie]

^^^^^

What John says here is basically true, but depending on the shape of your turning, some rules get thrown out the window. Take for example, the Oregon Myrtle bowl I showed on my post prior to his. The complex shape of this bowl makes it impossible to work from the center to the edge. In this case, the concave curve near the edge needs to be buffed perpendicular to the profile of the bowl.......and those of you who have been using the Beall Buff system know that putting the edge of your bowl to the buffing wheel in such a manner is courting disaster! It can be done, however, but great care and an acquired skill level is what it takes to do this successfully.

I have no doubts that I will, at some time in the future, have another bowl ripped from my hands while buffing.......it seem to me that, considering the shapes I attempt, it will be inevitable!

Nevertheless John's observations should be heeded for the more basic shapes, and good advice for someone that is using the Beall system for the first time.

otis of cologne

 

[turner23]

bowl buffing

I've used the buffing system now for several years, I love it! I consider it one of the best 'off-the-lathe' finishes for turned wood. To get the best results, you should really spin the wheels at 1800rpm (spindle speed); you need the high speed to create the necessary friction to melt the waxes to allow transfer from the wheel to the wood. Slower speeds do allow the wheels to reach tighter corners, but you probably won't get as even a finish. You will also probably not get as glossy a finish with the lower speed (unless that's what you're going for), again the friction is what makes the whole thing work.
FYI: The balls should spin at around 2650rpm (spindle speed), this equates to a similar tangential velocity of the ball to that of the larger wheel. [the higher speed compensates for the smaller diameter]

In the end, go with what works for you; just my two cents.

Cheers!

 

[john lucas]

I don't have any trouble getting a glossy finish. In fact sometimes it's too glossy. I did a project this last year on how to photograph a really glossy subject. I made a walnut hollow vessel and gave it an almost glass like finish. I say almost because I didn't have enough time to sand between all the coats. Most people would not know the difference but I could see the lack or clarity of the final finish. The gloss however was just as good. That was done with my slow speed 4" wheels.
I could be wrong because I don't know the science behind all this but I thought the wax was simply a binder to hold the abrasive. As long as your are getting the abrasive action then that is fine.
When I buff my gloss lacquer it goes dull and the abrasive takes out the minor imperfections. That way I know it's working. Then when I go to the white diamond the gloss comes back. At this stage it's glossy enough but has a funny feel. I assume that's the wax in the binder. The carnauba wax wheel takes that off and makes it feel slicker even though it doesn't improve the gloss any.
I find this also works with bare wood although just the Carnauba wax is not a very long lasting finish. When I want a more natural look I only put a thin coat of thinned lacquer on and then buff using the beal but I may leave out the white diamond. I have also knocked the lacquer back with 4/0 steel wool and then go to the beal.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Difference is a difference between buffing the wax and applying it, as I see it. If I shave and dissolve the wax, it goes on as a paste, and only needs buffing. That's how they do what's in the can. If I heat it to soften and adhere to the buff, I'm obliged to make the same heat to spread it on the piece.

You can "spirit off" the binder from the abrasive if you don't want to wax the surface, same as with French polishing.

 

[James McClure]

Silica

Tripoli contains silica. There is a warning about it in the instructions that come with the Beall buffing system. Please make sure you follow the warning and protect your lungs.

P.S. I saw a silica free version of tripoli at Home Depot recently under the Ryobi brand name. I haven't tried it yet because I don't buff as much as I used to.