New and looking for advice

[NRA4EVR]

Hello all,
I am looking at getting into bowl turning, and I was looking for some advice. I am looking at the Jet JWL-1236 / 708352 12" Variable Speed Wood Lathe with Stand and was wondering what the general opinion of this lathe is. Also othen then a set of HSS knives what other items should I be looking at.

Thank you for your help!!
Scott

 

[MichaelMouse]

I'd look more to the want ads if I were beginning at time uncertain. !2" lathes were pretty common one generation ago, so they're turning over (sorry!) now to the next generation of turners. The JET isn't bad, it's just nothing special. Major difficulty is that low end speed is high enough to demand some good bandsawing or other blank prep, minor include that the motor's mounted in a dumb place, and the tin stand is not worth the freight charge to send it.

Though others will certainly have other opinions, I don't think continuously variable speed is important, only low end so you can work those pieces you can't balance up well initially, and, as that is the only thing the JET has going over old iron, makes the choice easy. No old iron available within the time you wish to wait, get it and live with its shortcomings. No rebate rush for it, it seems.

High Speed Steel tools aren't really necessary, even at 500 rpm, so you can take a bit of that money and apply toward a chuck, which will greatly increase your time on the lathe, because you won't be re-mounting all the time.

 

[TurningDog]

The jet 1236 is a great lathe but I think it is too much money for too little lathe. Your better in my opinion include spending a little more and getting jet 1442 from amazon.com. 2) A mini lathe is another good place to start and if you get one with mt2 and 1x8tpi when and if you ugrade to a bigger lathe after you have some more experience your accesories will be easily transferable. In the mini lathe category I have had a both the jet variable speed and non variable speed and a PSI Turncrafter Pro. Of the 3 the turncrafter pro is the best bang for your buck. It turns as well and does everything a comparable jet can do and cheaper plus free shipping if you buy it at amazon as well. 3)The last choice is the Harbor Freight 34706 lathe (a clone of the jet 1236) that will do as well as the jet if you don't abuse it. If you get it with the regular sale price of $200 and pick up the online 20% off coupon then you have a super deal. Don't get me wrong this lathe will wear out long before the 1236, but in most likelyhood you will either have decided you wanted a bigger (or smaller) lathe and have enough experience to really know what it is you want in a lther.

You will definately want HSS turning tools and there are several options there as well. My suggestion is three fold. HF has a set of HSS tools for $40 or cheaper if you bring the online price to their attention they will match it. This has some nice tools but is very limiting in what you will make with them. For the money they are great, but I would suggest either skipping them or also picking up a set of 6 PSI HSS tools which provide a missing gap in the HF set. The one thing neither set has nor sells is a propper bowl gouge. There are many to be had in this category but expect to pay atleast $40 for this tool alone.

Now that you have tools you need to sharpen them. I disagree with most peoples idea that a slow speed 8" grinder is a necessity. However they are nice and right now woodcraft has theirs on sale for $69.99 and that makes it the best deal on the market. It comes with fine and medium grit wheels and works like a dream. My next choice is the Ryobi 8" grinder I have had mine for a number of years and works as well as any far more expensive models in the same category. This leaves you with grinding jigs. Most people like the wolverine or the true grind, I am a wolverine user myself (because I can't afford a tormek) but for about half the price of a wolverine (with all the attachments) PSI has put out a clone that comes with all the bells and whistles of the wolverine for $100. Also if you are handy in the shop there are a number of online plans for making your own jigs.

This leaves you with a few last things you will want to considder. Chucks there are many posts on this subject but I like the Nova G3 as a starter chuck. A chainsaw wood is pretty expensive unless you can get it for free. I like the Stihl 170 as a beginner sawwith an upgraded 16" bar (I buy my bars and chains from baileys.com). Sanding supplies, I get mine from 2 places either HF for rolls and sheets, and big hook and loop sheets from industrialabrasives.com. Safety equipemt I reccomend a full polycarbonate face shield (HF also has the best deal on this $12 wih replaceable shields for $6) and dust masks are nice but not for everyone. I use a resp-o-rator brand available online and at woodcraft. Big exepensive ones are overkill in my shop and don't work very well when I am wearing a beard. And lastly but most importantly instruction in the form of classes or videos. Books are great after you have some experience but there is nothing like seeing and hearing it done.

 

[hockenbery]

Scott,
In my opinion the single best thing you could do is to take a class or get some one on one help from an experienced turner. This will give you an opportunity to not only learn solid techniques but also to use tools and lathes.

Check http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/members.pl?submit=Chapter+List

call the contact person. clubs welcome visitors and prospective members. Many clubs offer classes and help sessions for new turners. many turners enjoy having visiters in their shops and will give you some pointers.

Check the following for a teacher near you.
http://www.woodturner.org/community/members/members_pro.pl?submit=Edit+Teacher+Search

Mr. Dog had a lot of good advice but if you were my student you would learn to use and sharpen the side ground gouge, a spindle gouge, and a round nose scraper. These are all the tools you need to turn bowls and when you get proficient with the gouge the scraper can stay in the tool rack most of the time. I think one of the mini lathes (Fisch, Jet, Delta) are a good first lathe. Eventually you would want a bigger lathe with variable speed. but why invest thousands when you might not like turning. Another reason to take a class.
I was lucky enough to be able to sell my work and have people pay me to become a better turner and buy bigger lathes.

happy turning
AL

 

[underdog]

1) Be safe - If it is not safe, then there is no rule #2.

2) Have fun 🙂 - (if it's not fun, then why do it?)

3) This is your last chance to avoid the VORTEX. Run away NOW, before you purchase the tools/lathe! If you purchase tools/lathe, resistance is futile, you WILL be assimilated!


On rule #1. If you don't have a face shield and respirator (not just a dust mask!) then it won't be safe. If you don't get a Trend or Triton air system then get one of those inexpensive 3M or other respirators that you can get at Home Depot, Lowes, or even Walmart. Fungal infections are no joke. And a face shield is a must!

 

[woodwish]

I started with a Delta mini-lathe (I think they call it a midi) and loved it. Decided to get a bigger lathe without refinancing the house so after a lot of searching bought a Jet 1642 with the 220v varaible speed motor, and have never regreted it. Jet makes good mid-priced stuff, there are better ones out there for more money and worse ones for less.

Although the mini lathe was nice, after about a week I was shopping for a bigger one. Wish I had saved the money and bought the bigger one to begin with. :cool2: Luckily all the tools and everything else worked on the bigger lathe, even my chuck worked with a new insert. I thought I would keep the old Delta and use it for smaller items but I have never turned anything on it since I bought the Jet. It has my Beall buffing wheels on it and that is all it does other than collect dust.

 

[dkulze]

Hey Scott,

Everyone is giving great advice. Started out with a Jet Mini, a cheap set of tools, and a little nova chuck myself. The sharpening setup and a good bowl gouge are the two things that get tacked to that the quickest and with the most effect.

One thing folks haven't mentioned is contacting your nearest AAW club. Just give a call to a board member (they're listed in the chapter guides on the main site here) and you'll have an invite to come and turn quicker than you can make a bottle stopper.

The hands on experience and tutoring you'll get is invaluable, the chance to use other's equipment and try stuff out is wonderful, and the $20 or so investment in a club membership will probably get you use of the club's traveling lathes for cheap or free while you're making up your mind what you want.

Good luck and run while you still can,
Dietrich

P.S.(just remember, you can get good money for that table saw and jointer you'll never use again, and you can apply it to more turning toys)

P.P.S(if you don't get that joke, give it a few months and you will)

 

[NRA4EVR]

wow all thanks for the responses. I am looking for a club now in the metro detroit area. Based on some other reading it also sounds like I may be better off spending the extra 200$ on the 1442.

 

[dkulze]

Scott, just look up The Greater Detroit Woodturners under the chapters list on the main page (click on the icon up in the lefthand corner of the forums page). If you call them, you can likely turn with someone this weekend.

Wait till you get to turn with them before you chip for the lathe. Personally, the 10" swing you'll get with a Jet Mini will hold you longer than you think and leave room for nicer tools. You'll likely find that you want to jump from that to at least a 16" swing, if not 20 or 24. I've found that 14" is a bit too in between for sizes.

Dietrich

 

[N_Addy]

wow all thanks for the responses. I am looking for a club now in the metro detroit area. Based on some other reading it also sounds like I may be better off spending the extra 200$ on the 1442.

I can almost guarantee that if you don't spend the extra $200 now you'll wish you did sooner rather than later. It won't be long before you are drooling over the 1442. Next it will be the Jet 1642, then the DVR 3000, then a PM 3540, then a Oneway...

I've learned that the question is not "will I ever want to upgrade?" but rather "how long will this lathe carry me before I want to upgrade?".

Back away from the chasm now while there is still hope!

 

[gary7]

No, you won't.

I may be better off spending the extra 200$ on the 1442.

No, you will not be better off. You will only wish you had the 1642 instead. I started with the Jet mini and three months later got the 1642. But, like others have said, it is very addictive. You must decide now that you are willing to fork out several hundred bucks for: turning tools, chuck and accessories, grinding equipment, safety gear, sand paper & finishing & buffing gear, a band saw... The list goes on and on. Not to mention the wood you will be looking for and a chain saw to cut it and/or turning blanks you'll buy. We are not trying to frighten you out of this. It is a great hobby, tension reliever, and 'gets you outta the house from the wife and kids for a while' thing to do. We are only trying to let you know up front what you are in for. Continue to do your research and make your choices wisely. Most of all, have fun like the rest of us.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

My general advice for all beginners is to start out with something affordable. Unless you have turned before it is difficult to predict whether you will become addicted to it (like some of us), or whether you will turn 2 or 3 items and give up the hobby/art altogether.

I started out with a piece of junk used Harbor Freight and quickly outgrew it after my 3rd piece. Then I researched and bought a higher end lathe (pm3520) and before I knew it, it was worse than being addicted to crack. (part of my garage )

This question comes up all the time and you might consider searching for other similar threads in this forum. There is a lot of good advice in this thread. Dietrich's (dkulze) and Al's ("hockenbery" is also a board member) advice is good. A chapter will not only give you experience with other equipment but also give you turning help and instruction.

You should set a budget:
- some for the lathe
- some for faceshield (required) and dust mask
- some for tools ($100 minimum)
- auxiliary tools (chainsaw, bandsaw, compass)
- books, videos

(I keep hoping my PM3520 will die someday so I can order a bigger, more expensive lathe. Maybe I need to put another 3,000 hours on it. Hey that would be a good addition to the lathe - an hour meter.)

One thing to consider is you might want to just run away now. If you end up buying a lathe and following all our advice you might just get addicted too. Then you'll come back and blame all of us, you wife will become a turning widow, and the room which used to be your garage will just become a distant memory for your car! (Of course that is only a hypothesis that I know nothing about). But you could also end up with a lifelong love of wood and the art of woodturning! 😉

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

My general advice for all beginners is to start out with something affordable. Unless you have turned before it is difficult to predict whether you will become addicted to it (like some of us), or whether you will turn 2 or 3 items and give up the hobby/art altogether.

(I keep hoping my PM3520 will die someday so I can order a bigger, more expensive lathe. Maybe I need to put another 3,000 hours on it. Hey that would be a good addition to the lathe - an hour meter.)

Jeff,
You're scaring the daylights outa me!! I'm currently setting aside money to upgrade to my LAST lathe forever, a PM3520B and you're telling me you've outgrown yours already. The moths in my wallet are terrified.

The advice you give is good -- exactly because I didn't know if I'd enjoy turning, I purchased the HF34706 on sale with coupon for a little over $170.00 with tax(actually a birthday present from LOML).

A new truck to haul wood, 17" bandsaw, bigger chainsaw, assorted chucks various chisels, books, videos, and sharpening sytem later I'm addicted. .........and couldn't be happier!!! BTW I'm still satisfied with the 34706, I've got lots to learn before Yellow Mustard arrives next winter, and what I have can still handle what I'm capable of turning.

Jim

 

[underdog]

Depends on what kind a person you are...

I started out with a HF lathe (stamped out tin foil model) and used it for a few pieces. It was a pain to work with, but it got me started. I had that for several years before I really learned anything though. Oh I turned the odd thing now and then, but I didn't even know the difference between scraping and cutting.

Then a couple of my co-workers dragged me off to a club meeting. The club was just getting started, but I volunteered to do the newsletter. Before I knew it I was hooked. Had to sell the HF to afford the Jet Mini and some HSS tools, and I decimated my small savings account to get the Nova Midi chuck (on sale no less!). (JOIN A CLUB!)

I don't have money, but I've got some time and a little mechanical knowhow. And I probably won't be able to afford a big lathe for quite some time...

But right now, I just LOVE my Jet mini. I'm looking forward to carrying it to club outings at craft fairs or all day demos. You can do quite a few things on it. All of our club demos for the last year and a half have been done on a mini.

We've seen eggs and bottle stoppers, we've seen Tagua nuts turned, we've seen bowls, platters, and hollow forms turned. I've seen turned boxes and even a cowboy hat turned. And yes, some of these things have maxed out the lathe. But they've all been done on our mini's....

My thinking is that I can sell a few things along the way and pay for this hobby. And as the lathe pays for itself I can save up for a bigger one. But it's going to take a long time at this rate. I haven't sold the first thing. 🙄 Wanna buy some turnings? 😀

If you love to tinker, then the internet is just rife with things you can fabricate for your lathe, without breaking the bank. I've seen collet chucks, longworth chucks, sanding drum and fluting attachments, indexing wheels, steady rests and grinding jigs. And all of this is stuff you can make yourself. So if you like the process of setting up, you can tinker for a long time without "moving up" or "keeping up with the Joneses". And then the mini will always be there when you do move up to a bigger lathe.

I think the direction you go, and will be satisfied with, ultimately is up to you. Since I'm a perfectionist tinkerer type, I'll be happy with my small setup for quite some time, both because I like making jigs and small stuff (Big stuff scares me!) and because I don't have a bunch of money. ($300 is a lot of money for me!)

The thing that is really addictive about this craft/art is that is the closest thing to instant gratification there is in the woodworking hobby. I think that's the heart of the Vortex!

Well that's my thinking anyway. Feel free to do whatever floats your boat.

 

[georgetroy]

Turning is additive as we all know. If you make start with a small lathe fine, Keep it you will need it for demos. In my opinion you are wasting your money on a HF lathe or others of the like where your capacity is only 12". Bite the bullet and get a lathe with a 16" swing or better to start with. Money may be a problem, but I see many men with boats and new trucks. Those toys will buy a big lathe and all the tools you need. $25,000 will get you a shop full of tools or a day with repairs in the hospital. GT

 

[Richard Baker]

Table Saw & Jointer

Don't sell the table saw and jointer. You will need them when you get into segmented work.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Hi Jim - the PM3520 is an excellent lathe. Many professionals use the 3520 and enjoy its features. I still like mine with all the good features and good design that is built into it. Any product that can run for 3,000 hours with almost no maintenance is well designed and constructed with quality in mind.

There is one thing that sometimes restricts me and that's the 20" swing. I have wanted to do larger pieces sometimes and had to cut them down to size. It doesn't happen very often, but it is a limitation. At some point I may end up getting a larger lathe, maybe a Stubby. But that will not happen for some time.

 

[TurningDog]

Hi Jim - the PM3520 is an excellent lathe. ...
There is one thing that sometimes restricts me and that's the 20" swing. I have wanted to do larger pieces sometimes and had to cut them down to size.

I think you spit out the jist of why I think it is pretentious to say buy your last lathe first, because you never know what your last lathe is going to be. As soon as you get something that will turn 24 you find yourself dreaming of 44" and I know more than a few people wwho have 44" lathes and are looking bigger.

I am not all that familiar with 3520 so I ask you this would it be possible to add riser blocks like I am planning to a grizzly? A small local foundary is going to make me a set of 4" which will make the 16" grizz into a 24" and they are only going to cost me $50

 

[dkulze]

Speaking of 3000 hours, I've got 6 years on my Jet Mini. This includes large, out of balance pieces (up to about 20lbs). Only maintenance has been to change the belt once. I still use it almost as much as my big lathe (16" swing Nova). The PM or Stubby/Oneway is down the road a bit.

Dietrich+

 

[underdog]

20 POUNDS!


You must have that thing bolted down Deitrich. I turned a bit of cherry burl that must weigh all of 6 pounds and I was afraid that I might not get it round before it got away from me. And that was at the lowest speed.

Even the Persimmon I turned the other day didn't weight that much, and it wanted to walk around til I got a lot of the material hogged off (what I wouldn't have done for a coring setup on that piece of wood!).

 

[dkulze]

bolted down to an 8ft woodcarver's bench. Weight approx 200lbs. Made it bounce around a bit but held.

Dietrich (just call me DangerMan),

 

[Jeff Jilg]

I assume the riser blocks will go under the headstock and the tailstock. That sounds like a good experiment and it's inexpensive. The only potential drawback is the bed may not be designed to take the torsional stress from the larger loads you might put on it. It will be interesting to see what your results are.

 

[dkulze]

I assume the riser blocks will go under the headstock and the tailstock. That sounds like a good experiment and it's inexpensive. The only potential drawback is the bed may not be designed to take the torsional stress from the larger loads you might put on it. It will be interesting to see what your results are.

As in, will it or will it not twist out of shape and explode.

Dietrich 😀

 

[woodwish]

(I keep hoping my PM3520 will die someday so I can order a bigger, more expensive lathe. Maybe I need to put another 3,000 hours on it. Hey that would be a good addition to the lathe - an hour meter.)

Wow, that would be a great idea! Or at least until people started figuring out how many hours you had on the lathe vs. the hour meter on the lawn mower and stuff like that. And then soon people would start posting their hours on here also. 🙂

IF you are considering bowls from anything other than good quality turnign blanks- one thing to consider is the lowest speed possible (most of the smaller lathes minimum speed is about 500rpm). One final selling feature to me for a bigger lathe, with a lower speed, was attempting to turn a piece of green wood pretty close to max size for the mini. Turned way to fast to make me comfortable at start up. My bigger Jet will start off real slow with plenty of power, much better for my nerves. For smaller items with dry wood the mini was fine. Just remember though- you can turn small things on a big lather, can't always turn big stuff on a small lathe!

 

[TurningDog]

As in, will it or will it not twist out of shape and explode.

Dietrich 😀

Not likely. But I am sure there will always be chastising sceptics who will want to say otherwise because it is easier to mock than actually do something yourself.

BTW The heavy cast iron bed and stand of the grizzly are the least of the problems and oddly enough the stand is more sturdy than the jet 1642 which I have turned a 47" tabletop off the end of. If a VFD setup at low speeds isn't enough to control lateral stress when turning large pieces over the bed there is the option of adding bed mounted lateral torsion bars made from heavyweight I beams.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

It will be interesting to hear your results after you have turned 4 large pieces on it with the riser blocks added. I will also be interested to hear if you had to add the diagonal supports to prevent twisting of the bed.

A few 200 pounders on that setup will either make us believers, or we'll stand back a lot further when you load the next 200 pounder on it. I'm not skeptical, I'm just glad the experiment is being done with your lathe not mine! :cool2:

 

[TurningDog]

It will be interesting to hear your results after you have turned 4 large pieces on it with the riser blocks added. I will also be interested to hear if you had to add the diagonal supports to prevent twisting of the bed.

diagonal supports have always been part of the plan befor anything heavy is turned and will be head and tailstock mounted rather than bed mounted.

 

[woodwish]

The two most pretentious sayings in woodturning:
"Buy your last lathe first" & "You can always turn small things on a big lathe, but not big things on a small lathe"

T-dog, not sure why you think my response is so pretentious. I was simply pointing out if a turner is deciding between lathes, if possible, go with the bigger one. I have known very few turners trying to go to a smaller cheaper lathe after purchasing a bigger one. If you want to mess around trying to make a big lathe out of a smaller one that's fine with me, but I'm not sure all of us want to do that. Pretentious or not, I'm glad I have a bigger lathe to turn small things on, or big things on my big lathe.

 

[NRA4EVR]

I am going to hold off an purchase the PM3520B. save myself the headaches and go all out. Ill order it in a month or so.

 

[dkulze]

Bahda bump, bump, bump. Another one bites the dust......
Sing it everyone!!!!!!

Welcome to the true vortex
Dietrich 😱

 

[Jeff Jilg]

It's a good tool and will serve you well. I hope you enjoy turning with it!

 

[NRA4EVR]

Yeah, I am geeked... the waiting is going to stink. Maybe I will spend my time buy blanks and other things I will need

 

[woodwish]

Sounds like you made a good decision. I was looking at the 3520 and was ready to invest in one until I found a Jet 1642 at one heck of a deal. I may someday still get one but for right now the Jet is doing well with me. I will say that of ones I looked at I was really impressed with the 3520. I taught wood shop for almost 20 years and Powermatic tools were a standard for us, a great combo of good solid tools for the money. You can find cheaper but it tends to be junkier, and you can find better but for more $$$. Congrats on a good decision in my opinion!

 

[dkulze]

Yeah, I am geeked... the waiting is going to stink. Maybe I will spend my time buy blanks and other things I will need

EXCUSE ME???? BUYING blanks??????

Nay, nay, my friend. You spend the extra time tracking down your nearest log yard (the place where all the local tree services dump their logs for a fee) and building a relationship with the owner. You also drive around scoping out all the trees nearby with burls and asking their owners if they plan to cut them down any time soon.

Then, once you have secured a few sources of free wood, you spend the rest of the time cutting it up with a chainsaw/bandsaw and sealing it in preparation for the arrival of your lathe.

The money you'll save on buying wood will cover your lathe cost pretty quickly, and you'll have more fun turning wood you've gathered. Pride in what you've found combined with no sense of "I have to make something nice with this $X piece of wood so that it was worth the cost."

Dietrich

 

[NRA4EVR]

You make a good point... looks like i have some driving around to do!!

 

[woodwish]

Leftover logs will never look the same to you! I even think of our frequent hurricanes as opportunities. I try to be nice guy and offer to cut up and haul off trees for people, of course only the nice trees (they can keep the pines) 😎