Needed: Tree Identification Assistance

[Allen Alexopulos]

Greetings from Central Maryland!

A friend contacted me a week ago about an old flowering fruit tree (without fruit) of unknown species that had blown over in his yard. He originally thought that it might be an apple tree but after quizzing him on it during a phone conversation, he admitted that he had no idea what it was. He invited me over to take a look, an offer which I promptly took him up on.

The tree was "bird pecked" over most of its larger surfaces. The bird pecking had been going on for a long time as sectioned areas showed evidence of the attacks deep into the heartwood. It had a wonderful array of colors ranging from deep red to yellow. I'm attaching several photos to this note in hopes that one of you might be able to offer an ID on this tree. One of the images shows some leaves that were in abundance around the stump. There is no guarantee that they actually came from this tree.

Thanks for your help!
Best Regards & Good Turning,
-Allen

 

[Mort]

The fruit trees I can ID are apple, grapefruit, persimmon and orange. Your tree is not one of those. If I recall correctly Virginia Tech has a dendrology web site that is good. Also might check with the International Society of Wood Collectors
http://www.woodcollectors.org/ . Pretty wood. Wish I was more help

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

Thanks!

Hi Mort,

Thanks for taking the time take a look at the images and for the names of the research sites. Ruling out the varieties that you mentioned helps narrow the possibilities down. I harvested some of the tree and turned a small piece into a roughout that has some spectacular figure (including the bird-peck markings) and color. That is why I am so interested in finding out exactly what type of tree this is.

When I first started cutting into the tree I thought that it might be some kind of ornamental cherry. It may well be but it didn't have the same smell that I've associated with cherry.

Thanks again for your comments!
-Allen

 

[hockenbery]

Hi Allen,

Ask Clark Davidson! If Clark doesn't know it will be a new species!

From the leaves I would say English Ivy!

seriously it may be plum.

Happy Turning,
Al

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

Greetings Al,

Its great to hear from you! I will ask Clark the next time that I see him.

I hope the ivy you spotted growing on the side isn't a poisonous variety. The leaves do appear to match the basic characteristics of the American Plum, but I have no way of knowing for sure that they came from this tree. What I do know is that the wood figure is wonderful and sense that it will make for some nice turnings.

Thanks for the advise, and please pass my best regards on to Sherry.
-Allen

 

[Jeff Jilg]

AAW wood and tree identification links

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

AAW to the Rescue!

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the link to the AAW wood ID resource page. The Hobbit House web site may have solved my problem. Their listing for the Amrican Plum included a log section image that strongly resembles the log section I included in my first note. Laying them side-by-side on my display made it pretty easy to see the similarities. Based on what I have seen using these resources and from Al's comments, I am going to call the tree Prunus Americana until proven otherwise.

http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/plum.htm

Thanks again and have a nice weekend,
-Allen

 

[underdog]

That's an awfully big plum tree... and some pretty pretty wood. That should turn real nice.

How tall was it and how big is the diameter?

Does Prunus Americana get that big?

The leaves come from at least three different trees.

From left to right:

Beech, Plum, Elm (or maybe Alder?).

I'm not too sure about the one on the left, but the one at the top looks a lot like Beech. They hang on to the trees all winter, and look like white ruffles. The Plum has a saw tooth edge and it comes to more of a point. The elm has a sawtooth edge, but is quite round.

I'd have to get the books out to be for sure.

Beech is out. It is a very fine grained even colored wood. Alder is very soft brown and is usually a very small tree. This doesn't look like an Elm either.

The wood coloring looks a lot like the Cherry I cut down today, but it definitely has a smell that is hard to miss doesn't it?

You're probably right, but that sure is a big Plum...

 

[underdog]

Well I got the book out. (Peterson field guide to Eastern Trees.)

The American Plum grows about 15-30' (35) tall, and up to a 10" (14) diameter.

Shaggy bark. Also read somewhere in here that the bark has horizontal lines in it.... oh it's on the plate info.

It also says that the almond smell is very weak in plums (heck I never noticed it.), but is useful for ID of Cherry (no kidding!) and sometimes Plums.

The leaves look very similar to the one in the center.

The flowers are about 1" across and grow in 3-5 per cluster.

It's also a "thorny" plum. So if you see "thorns" on it you can almost be assured that it's a Plum. These thorns aren't usually real sharp (in my experience- certainly not like Hawthorne!) but they are long and thin.

It also grows in your area.

In fact there have been hundreds of varieties, and some have been cultivated. Big shock there...

Now that I look at the pix again, I'd say the coloring is quite similar to what I cut down. The outer edge is a little more white, but the interior starts out brown and then the heart can have some really interesting color.. even into the reddish/purplish range.

It's funny but the heart of mine is all punky and getting rotten too...

It dries pretty hard, but turns very nicely too.

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

Prinus Americana?

Howdy Jim,

According to the owner this tree was really old, which might explain the rotted out center near its base and possibly its size. I didn't measure the diameter of the piece shown in the first image, but it was at larger than the 18" blade on my chainsaw at its widest point. Judging by the size and number of branches that the owner had laying near the chunks shown in the second photo, the tree could easily have been >30' tall. I'll take another photo of the bark on the pieces that I harvested to see if it might help us nail this one down.

An interesting note: The National Audubon Society "Field Guide to Trees" entry for the American Plum includes a comment to the effect that it has a "...slightly unpleasant odor...". The Evergreen Native Plant Database (online) adds a caution that "...All parts of this tree, except the flesh and skin of the plums, contain the toxin hydrocyanic acid." In the confined area of my shop the bad smell was pretty obvious; so much so that my wife even commented on it.

The coloration ranges from deep reddish purple at the pith transitioning through violet shades in the heartwood ending up with cream and orange near the bark. The upper branches had been carted away before I got to the tree, so I don't know whether there were any thorns present. The owner did not say what color the flowers were and said that the tree produced no fruit.

I opted for quality over quantity the day I harvested the tree. In retrospect, I wish that I had grabbed a whole lot more of the tree even though my storage area is beyond full.

Thanks again Jim for your observations and comments. I greatly appreciate the assistance that I have received in this forum!

Best Regards,
-Allen

 

[MichaelMouse]

Howdy Jim,

An interesting note: The National Audubon Society "Field Guide to Trees" entry for the American Plum includes a comment to the effect that it has a "...slightly unpleasant odor...". The Evergreen Native Plant Database (online) adds a caution that "...All parts of this tree, except the flesh and skin of the plums, contain the toxin hydrocyanic acid." In the confined area of my shop the bad smell was pretty obvious; so much so that my wife even commented on it.

The coloration ranges from deep reddish purple at the pith transitioning through violet shades in the heartwood ending up with cream and orange near the bark. The upper branches had been carted away before I got to the tree, so I don't know whether there were any thorns present. The owner did not say what color the flowers were and said that the tree produced no fruit.

I wouldn't let the hydrocyanic acid part bother me. Its cousins P serotina and P pennsylvanica also have a bunch of the same. That's why the farmer keeps it out of his pastures, so the cows won't eat it. Sounds like your tree was a hybrid if it bore no fruit. All plums hereabout bear flowers, and as long as there isn't an ill-timed frost, fruit. Almost as many fruit as thorns.

But to return to the hydrocyanic acid, it's the reason the bark was used as a medicine and "spring tonic" back when. Does bacteria in pretty well, and makes the heartwood pretty durable even when, as with yours, the bark's been stripped and the tree can't close a wound. If you store fresh black cherry out in the summer sun, it will, after a time, acquire the pleasant odor of almonds. One supposes it's HCN, but it hasn't done me in just yet, and I carve an turn a lot of it. Might be the same with your plum, though I have never done else but burn the trimmings, a situation I plan to remedy this spring. Knew it was dark inside, but never considered it over cherry.

 

[underdog]

Is this toxin also present in Wild Cherry then? I've heard several warnings not to use Cherry as hotdog or marshmallow sticks.

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

Hydrocyanic Acid

Hi Jim,

According to Wikipedia:
"...Fruits that have a pit, such as cherries or apricots, often contain small quantities of hydrogen cyanide in the pit. Bitter almonds, from which almond oil and flavoring is made, also contains hydrogen cyanide. Some millipedes release hydrogen cyanide as a defense mechanism. Hydrogen cyanide is contained in the exhaust of vehicles, in tobacco smoke, and in the smoke of burning nitrogen-containing plastics..."

They go on to remind us that hydrocyanic acid (HCN) is also called prussic acid and was used by the Nazis under the brand name Zyklon-B (for mass extermination) and is listed on Schedule 3 of the Chemical Weapons Convention.

Now that I've learned these tidbits, I think I'll go back to turning maple!

-Allen