Need schooled on sanding disc holders/mandrels

[Sam Fleisher]

I've already experienced the foam coming apart when changing sanding discs so I'm ready for the next thing to try.

Looks like a lot of people use the wood turners wonders ultimate system but I was just wondering if there was anything else to look at out there?

Seems like multiple pads so you don't change sandpaper as often is the way to go. I thought it would be easy to find the hex shaft mandrels and just use a quick change bit in my angle drill but those mandrels seem to be unicorns.

You can find one in a kit on amazon but I didn't want all the other stuff. Am I missing something on the standard mandrels? are they quick change in some way I haven't figured out? I thought about just sticking a keyless chuck adapter on to my drill but that's just more stuff sticking out there to hit the edge of bows.

 

[robo hippy]

I get my abrasives from Vince at VinceswoodNwonders. I just prefer that blue abrasive he uses, and like the over sized discs. For 'interface pads', I use the firm ones with the quarter round profile for grits up to 180 or 220, and that varies, depending on the wood. For grits up to 400, I use the medium interface pads. If I go beyond that, then I use the soft pads. This is kind of the firm pads are made for cutting, so you are cutting off high spots and tear out. The medium pads are mostly removing the scratches of the coarser ones. The soft pads are more for polishing.

Now, for the foam coming apart, some times you just have a bad product. It happens. Most of the time, it is user error. #1 enemy of long life pads is speed, and #2 is pressure. I never push the trigger more than about half way. To get abrasives to cut, they need traction. If your drill and lathe are running too fast, you don't get traction so the abrasives don't get a chance to dig in and cut. If you apply more pressure, then you get heat, and heat will peel the hook part of the pad right off when you try to remove a disc. Heat is an enemy of sanding and the wood.

I use one mandrill for sanding. There are a number of them out there, and probably the ones from Steve Worchester are the highest quality. I think they are hex shaft. I do not consider that a necessity, unless you are using one of the quick change mandrills for the modern cordless screw guns. If you have a quick change chuck on your drill, then having a different mandrill for each grit can work. I have a keyed drill, and so I change discs as I proceed up to 180, then have a different medium pad for the higher grits.

With the modern 'micro' hook and loop pads and abrasives, I remove a disc or pad by slipping my thumb in between the two surfaces. You can't just rip them off.

robo hippy

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I've already experienced the foam coming apart when changing sanding discs so I'm ready for the next thing to try.

Looks like a lot of people use the wood turners wonders ultimate system but I was just wondering if there was anything else to look at out there?

Seems like multiple pads so you don't change sandpaper as often is the way to go. I thought it would be easy to find the hex shaft mandrels and just use a quick change bit in my angle drill but those mandrels seem to be unicorns.

You can find one in a kit on amazon but I didn't want all the other stuff. Am I missing something on the standard mandrels? are they quick change in some way I haven't figured out? I thought about just sticking a keyless chuck adapter on to my drill but that's just more stuff sticking out there to hit the edge of bows.

Check out WWW for the hex shaft. I suggested them to him a few years ago and he did get a supply in . I find that his pads also hold up very well to . Be sure to use a interface pad between paper and pad. This reduces wear on the roloc pad loops.

 

[Dean Center]

As Reed mentions, removing discs or taking interface pads off mandrels is a 2 handed job. One set of fingers grabs what's coming off and the other set of fingers holds down what it's coming off of. And totally agree with speed and pressure being the key things to avoid when you're starting out. Took me a very long time to learn.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Check out WWW for the hex shaft. I suggested them to him a few years ago and he did get a supply in . I find that his pads also hold up very well to . Be sure to use a interface pad between paper and pad. This reduces wear on the roloc pad loops.

The hex I found on the site say they are for the roloc only, wrong thread for regular.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

I get my abrasives from Vince at VinceswoodNwonders. I just prefer that blue abrasive he uses, and like the over sized discs. For 'interface pads', I use the firm ones with the quarter round profile for grits up to 180 or 220, and that varies, depending on the wood. For grits up to 400, I use the medium interface pads. If I go beyond that, then I use the soft pads. This is kind of the firm pads are made for cutting, so you are cutting off high spots and tear out. The medium pads are mostly removing the scratches of the coarser ones. The soft pads are more for polishing.

Now, for the foam coming apart, some times you just have a bad product. It happens. Most of the time, it is user error. #1 enemy of long life pads is speed, and #2 is pressure. I never push the trigger more than about half way. To get abrasives to cut, they need traction. If your drill and lathe are running too fast, you don't get traction so the abrasives don't get a chance to dig in and cut. If you apply more pressure, then you get heat, and heat will peel the hook part of the pad right off when you try to remove a disc. Heat is an enemy of sanding and the wood.

I use one mandrill for sanding. There are a number of them out there, and probably the ones from Steve Worchester are the highest quality. I think they are hex shaft. I do not consider that a necessity, unless you are using one of the quick change mandrills for the modern cordless screw guns. If you have a quick change chuck on your drill, then having a different mandrill for each grit can work. I have a keyed drill, and so I change discs as I proceed up to 180, then have a different medium pad for the higher grits.

With the modern 'micro' hook and loop pads and abrasives, I remove a disc or pad by slipping my thumb in between the two surfaces. You can't just rip them off.

robo hippy

Not to change the subject but I was watching a video you made a while back on the fluteless gouge and when you were going across the bottom at one point towards the center you were getting what I call chatter. I seem to get that a lot and I'm wondering what I can do to make it go away?.

Also, I did place an order with vinceswoodnwonders for the blue discs. And the sanding kit from wood turner wonders. And some mirka galaxy from turningwood. I'd better be good on sandpaper for a while anyway. What sucks is sandpaper is a consumable even though it's a tool. Spend a lot on a gouge you can use it and use it. sandpaper the expense never stops.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

As Reed mentions, removing discs or taking interface pads off mandrels is a 2 handed job. One set of fingers grabs what's coming off and the other set of fingers holds down what it's coming off of. And totally agree with speed and pressure being the key things to avoid when you're starting out. Took me a very long time to learn.

I usually run the lathe around 400 rpms and try to keep the drill on the slower speed. A lot of times I will shut the lathe off and just hand sand a place I find with tool marks or scratches.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

The hex I found on the site say they are for the roloc only, wrong thread for regular.

The Roloc system works well for me. One 1/4" shank mandrel and a pad for each grit that twists off with about a 120* rotation.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

The Roloc system works well for me. One 1/4" shank mandrel and a pad for each grit that twists off with about a 120* rotation.

I ended up buying a roloc system, I was just trying to find a source for hex mandrels so I could do a similar set up with regular holders. (one for each grit and use a quick attach in the drill)

 

[robo hippy]

Been a long time since I did that video.... Not sure about chatter. Some times I get a nice little spiral star in the center, and the number of arms varies. Generally, keep the tool rest close, and gouge pressure light. The fluteless gouge is not for removing lots of stock, but for fine finish cuts.

robo hippy

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Been a long time since I did that video.... Not sure about chatter. Some times I get a nice little spiral star in the center, and the number of arms varies. Generally, keep the tool rest close, and gouge pressure light. The fluteless gouge is not for removing lots of stock, but for fine finish cuts.

robo hippy

So if you were considering your next tool purchase and didn't have either, what would you buy? The fluteless gouge or the bottom bowl gouge? Or which would be a better purchase for a newbie? I have a bowl scraper from Thompson already and a 5/8 and 1/2 v flute bowl gouge.

 

[Doug Freeman]

So if you were considering your next tool purchase and didn't have either, what would you buy? The fluteless gouge or the bottom bowl gouge? Or which would be a better purchase for a newbie? I have a bowl scraper from Thompson already and a 5/8 and 1/2 v flute bowl gouge.

If you havent seen this thread it may be worthwhile https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/bowl-gouge-flute-descriptors.20506/#post-210862

I have a Thompson fluteless. I havent had as good of success with it as Robo. The surface needs to be relatively smooth. If not, it overloads the fluteless gouge and it chatters, as mentioned above.

I took an old Ben’s Best 5/8” shaft bg (parabolic flute) and put a more traditional grind on it, wings pull back ~10 deg (the grind line forms a straight line at the shaft) with a 70 deg bevel. I have much better luck with it if the surface is uneven from other gouge work. I also took a BB 1/2” spindle gouge, put a constant radius ) type grind with a 60 deg bevel, and use it when I can get the tool rest within 1-2” of the surface. It has a similar profile to a BOB flute bottom, but not the strength to extend off the rest. Just some things you might play with while trying to decide.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

If you havent seen this thread it may be worthwhile https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/bowl-gouge-flute-descriptors.20506/#post-210862

I have a Thompson fluteless. I havent had as good of success with it as Robo. The surface needs to be relatively smooth. If not, it overloads the fluteless gouge and it chatters, as mentioned above.

I took an old Ben’s Best 5/8” shaft bg (parabolic flute) and put a more traditional grind on it, wings pull back ~10 deg (the grind line forms a straight line at the shaft) with a 70 deg bevel. I have much better luck with it if the surface is uneven from other gouge work. I also took a BB 1/2” spindle gouge, put a constant radius ) type grind with a 60 deg bevel, and use it when I can get the tool rest within 1-2” of the surface. It has a similar profile to a BOB flute bottom, but not the strength to extend off the rest. Just some things you might play with while trying to decide.

I'll have to take a look at my bens best, I don't know if they are that big or not. Doesn't matter I suppose. I haven't exactly been knocking out monster size bowls. Is overloading the v flute on a regular bowl gouge a cause for chatter?

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Doug Freeman]

Is overloading the v flute on a regular bowl gouge a cause for chatter?

Yes. I’ve never used a std Thompson V, I have a Jamieson/Thompson bg, and it clears chips just fine. There are comparison pics in the thread I linked to - the J version is a bit larger radius, but I cant speak to the difference in actual use. I’ve used some off brand bg’s with tight radii, and they clogged up terribly.

 

[robo hippy]

Engineer's motto: If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway. I blame my dad who is an engineer, and though I am not an engineer, I think like that. I think the first BOB (bottom of bowl) tool I made was with an old Craft Supplies 1/2 inch gouge which had a half round flute shape, which I think is pretty much a perfect flute shape for a BOB tool. The fluteless gouge is great for taking off minimal thickness shavings, so more for clean up rather than for hogging stuff off. I have a couple of half round fluted gouges, and they can take bigger bites. I prefer to use them rolled onto their sides, which I think gives me a higher shear angle to my cuts. I also have a couple of spindle detail gouges which I also like, and again, they work better up on their edges for that high shear cut angle. All have about a 70 degree nose bevel, and a slightly rounded profile, ) shaped. My preference for tools are D Way and Thompson, and I don't really see or feel any difference in how long they keep their cutting edges and how sharp they get as long as you are using the same wheels. Oh, if you have a swept back style of gouge, they also work fairly well going through the transition and across the bottom of most bowls. The 60 degree bevel may limit you a bit on deeper and steeper bowls that have a sharper transition curve. With the 70 degree bevel, I can get through just about anything.

robo hippy

 

[Steve Worcester]

I've already experienced the foam coming apart when changing sanding discs so I'm ready for the next thing to try.

Looks like a lot of people use the wood turners wonders ultimate system but I was just wondering if there was anything else to look at out there?

Seems like multiple pads so you don't change sandpaper as often is the way to go. I thought it would be easy to find the hex shaft mandrels and just use a quick change bit in my angle drill but those mandrels seem to be unicorns.

You can find one in a kit on amazon but I didn't want all the other stuff. Am I missing something on the standard mandrels? are they quick change in some way I haven't figured out? I thought about just sticking a keyless chuck adapter on to my drill but that's just more stuff sticking out there to hit the edge of bows.

Regardless of who's product you use, check this video out on interface pads. At some point I talk about a potential problem with them getting pulled apart if removal is done improperly

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB-AmkRMja0&t=211s