Natural Edge Bowl question

[Chuck Wood]

Hi all,

I’m in the process of turning my first natural edged bowl (Walnut in case your wondering). I had no real issues with turning the outside profile using light shearing cuts with my detail gouge and managed a good finish. I found it to be a bit of a challenge though when, approaching the rim of the bowl, I was cutting “air†with every ¼ turn rotation of the headstock. Being careful to keep my tool secure to the rest, and making light cuts, the outside of the bowl turned out well without explosions. With this said, I’m a bit apprehensive however, with the inside profile of the bowl. My standard bowl cutting methods consisted to poking a scraper at the piece until a rough profile was obtained but I don’t think this method will work here.
Just wondering what methods work well in this situation. I have a 3/8†bowl gouge I might try but was thinking if a ring tool or or vessel hollowing tool. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

Learn the bowl gouge

Chuck,
To get a clean cut on the inside of the natural edge bowl you need to learn to use that bowl gouge. In the best of worlds have someone show you a fingernail grind. When you get the hang of the bowl gouge the scrapp will only be used to tidy up the very bottom center of a bowl.

If you choose to dive in with the scraper develop the rim down past the edge before hollowing further. In other words get the hard part done to finish thickness then proceed with the easy insides.

Make Sense? Maybe someone else can explain better.

Frank

 

[MichaelMouse]

Scrapers can really muck up an interrupted-edge turning, and they're not a lot of fun on wet wood, either. I use a large-radius gouge, forged pattern. That way I can begin the cut with the curvature pretty well matched by the gouge, cut with full close support from the rest almost at centerline, and peel the wet wood to a smooth surface. Problem with gouges of cylindrical format, even fingernailed, is they tend to give heel brusing on the wet wood, because you almost have to lay the heel back to keep the nose peeling, and the darn things aren't uniform in thickness, so you're chasing three unknowns, the heel, the nose biting, and the edge rolling because the angle of the bevel changes. Forged pattern knocks it to one because it's got a lot of bevel guiding, a nose that allows pretty much the same angle of attack anywhere along it, and by cutting a tad below center, the leading edge of the interruptions lets me know by sound how closely I'm matching the curve. Keeps me from picking up fuzzies or chipping.

 

[David Somers]

Chuck, I have had the best luck with an Ellsworth Gouge, which is a variation of a fingernail gouge. Henry Taylor has an Ellsworth that is much cheaper than the "Ellsworth Signature Gouge" if you ever go to buy one. Get the sharpening jig with it if you do buy it, and either have someone familiar with it walk you through using it and sharpening it, or get the DVD on using it. Saves lots of time.

Anyway.....With that gouge I can enter the inside of a natural edge bowl and sweep through the inside radius and get a nice smooth surface from it. Seems like there are two things involved in doing that. The first is to enter the bowl with the gouge in a roughing position...Tool horizontal to the ground, flute 45 degrees to the floor. You need to position your head so you are looking into the bowl along the line of the inside curvature of the bowl, and you will line up the bevel of the tool with that line. Enter the bowl slowly until you have formed a bit of a shelf that can be used to support the bevel, and then rotate the flute so that it is horizontal to the floor. Now continue your cut into the bowl, riding the bevel. You will get a very smooth light slicing cut that you can follow all the way through the bottom of the bowl, and will also have a nice clean edge on the natural edge. It works quite well and requires little sanding.

I am not sure how to translate this into a bowl gouge cut. Perhaps someone out there can give you a description. Michaelmouse warned NOT to use a scraper there. Really good advise. You are very likely to rip the bark off and end up with alot of tear out on the interior of the bowl.

I have never tried to use a ring tool for something like this so I am not sure how well it would work. I have my doubts. Anyone tried it?

For giggles I did try this with a Kelton Hollowing Tool. Even when cutting very lightly with that it had a real tendency to grab the bark. I was much happier with the result from the Ellsworth Gouge. It entered with a clean slice and required very little sanding.

There is another cut you can do with the Ellsworth Gouge for situations where the shape of the bowl makes it hard for the bevel to follow the inside curve all the way. An example would be a bowl that is not yet a hollow form, but the opening is smaller than the width of the bowl by some degree. Essentially you end up sweeping the tool in an arc from the edge of the bowl to high up in the bowl and then dropping down to the center to finish. I would not try to do that based on my description though. It is a wacky, maybe scary looking cut, though it works really well.

Hope this helps a little with options since you seem to be considering some other tools beyond a bowl gouge.

Dave

 

[Andy Coates]

which tools

There's not much more to add to what has already been said....but when has that ever stoped anyone🙂

MM is spot on; you really need to learn to use the bowl gouge...it is, after all, what it was designed for. As for scrapers...I have nothing whatsoever against them, but unlike most other tools they really are the tool for a specific job, and hollowing out a natural-edged, greenwood bowl, isn'tone of them. A good series of cuts with a freshly sharpened, well and closely supported bowl gouge will leave a very clean, easily sanded, surface.

And a ring tool! I'm very happy and confident using a ring tool where it is appropriate to use it, but I would not want to use one in a natural-edged bowl...too soon you'd have a no-sided bowl...unless it was merely for removing the bulk behind the bark layer...but then why bother when the bowl gouge will rip it out quick enough anyway.

So I'd say, risk losing a few bowls and practice with the bowl gouge.

Good luck

Andy

 

[rbabbittjr]

Bowl gouge with a fingernail grind is my method. Get a hold the Ellsworth DVD on how to use his Ellsworth gouge. In it he does a natural edge bowl. You do not need his gouge to follow his technique, but what the heck now I have one.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Unless you are talking about an end grain natural edge bowl, a ring tool is not the tool to use anyway -- and even on an end grain bowl, I would avoid using a ring tool on interrupted cuts because it just is not sturdy enough to handle the changing load conditions without moving around and getting you into trouble.

Bill

 

[Chuck Wood]

Thanks to all!!!

Well folks, I messed around with my newly acquired bowl gouge last night and quickly determined that I wondered how I lived without it before! I guess I've been holding out because of some false intimidation factor. I was able to quickly adapt to the bevel grind and get some pretty decent cuts going. I must admit thought that it was difficult to "rub a bevel" on air.
Thanks to everyone once again for all the input. I'll attach a photo of the experiment. Now for that bigger lathe I've been eyeballing..... 😉

 

[MichaelMouse]

Acquire some broad radius forged pattern gouges and learn how easy it is to peel and keep good support without bending and twisting. Stand your bowl gouge on its end, look at the edge as the wood sees it. Now roll a flat gouge on its edge and see everything including the way it clears the cut in two directions when you hold it at elbow level with the rest snug up. Wonderful tools.

Series from my foray into wet wood after determining nothing else on my list was doable until things were dryer outside. Turns out this was almost not doable. Outside is still soaking wet, though I blew compressed air and dried the inside enough for 120 grit and pictures.

Of interest for those who use pin chucks or woodworms is picture one, where overlapping Forstner bores using the stop on the drill press gain a flat surface for facing the chuck or clearance to get good depth on the pin. I sneak up on the thickness after gaining best balance, no mean feat on this odd-shaped lump. Had to go to 215RPM to rough, where I normally use 360.

The flat gouge is pretty easily bevel matched to the surface with a contrasting color under the piece, rolled slightly left at the top after it begins to bite, and then rides beautifully, peeling its way in. About 14.5 x 4.5 final dimension, left 3/8 thick.

 

[Chuck Wood]

Follow-up.

Hi,

Was all excited to post pictures of my first two experiments but couldn’t figure out how to shrink the pictures small enough to post. But thanks again for all the input. I always enjoy the use of this forum!!!

-Chuck