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My Jet 1642 is dead! Can you help?

W

Wade Lippman

Joined
Jul 15, 2022
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Location
Gorham, NY
I have a 17 year old Jet 1642 1.5hp 120v lathe.
When I turn it on, nothing happens. The RPMs register when I turn it, but that is all.
I replaced the on/off switch, but it didn't help; both switches test out okay.
The VFD display is blank; presumably it either isn't getting power or is broken. (to be honest, it is on the back of the machine and I never really looked at it, so I don't know for sure it ever showed anything).
The contacts on the forward/reverse switch show Vac whether the power switch is on or off, and Vdc when it is on. I don't know what that means, but the DC has to be coming from somewhere.
I asked about this problem at the local woodworkers club. Someone had the same problem a few years ago with his 1642 220v and fixed it with information he got here. Of course the replacement part and programming would all be different, so he didn't think he could give me much help; but suggested I post here and see if anyone has fixed a 1642 120v.

I would be most grateful for any help.
 
If you have a connection diagram for the lathe post that and we should be able to tell you what and where to check.
Another useful thing is the make and model of the VFD so anyone can look on line for that specific model and know what to check.
 
It is a Delta VFD007S11A

Input 100-120 18A
Output 3PH 0-240v 4.2A 16KA 1 HP Frequency range 1-400hz

It might be worth noting that the terminal with the yellow wire going to it marked "+10V" actually measures 5v. I don't know if that is a defective VFD, a cheap multimeter, or what.
circuit.jpg
 
Last edited:
I looked on line for a manual for a 1642evs by Google (Jet 1642 lathe manual).
The diagram on page 28 is probably what you need to trouble shoot your problem.
The tachometer is shown to be connected to the 120 volt input power line so if you get a reading when manually turning the spindle then you have power to the VFD.
The control circuit terminal block has 10 possible connections with only 5 connections used and those are (+10V), (AVL), skip 1, (M0), (M1), skip 4, and (GND).
The (+10V) that has a yellow wire, (AVL has a green wire, (M0) has a white wire, (M1) has a black wire and (GND) has a blue wire going to the control panel.
In the control panel using a DC multimeter put the positive probe yellow wire and the negative on the blue wire and if you get a reading of around 10 VDC that is good if not the VFD has a problem.
Next with the positive probe still on the yellow move the neg probe to the jumper between the for/rev switch and the push/pull switch and with the push/pull in run position you should see the 10 VDC, if not then the for/ rev switch is probably bad. If the +10 VDC is present and it still does not start, jump between common terminal and one of the other terminals (white) or (black) then if it does start the switch is bad of if it does not start then the VFD is toast.
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
Where did you connect the negative probe
Click to expand...
I got about 4.5vdc between the 10v and ground terminals. I also got 4.5vdc between the 10v terminal and forward/reverse terminals.
I guess that is definitive for a bad VFD?

I see 4 options:
1) Buy a replacement VFD007S11A. The only one I can find is $300 from Aliexpress.
2) Get mine repaired. Radwell says they will do it for $500.
3) Take it to a Jet authorized repair shop. I am guessing it will be $1,000 for the VFD and Maybe $300 for the labor.
4) Get a different VFD. The guy that referred me here got one for his 240v for $100 on Amazon, but I am unable to find a 120v.

Any advice/help with the fix would be appreciated.

The VFD007S11A is discontinued. I have emailed Delta to ask what the replacement is, but don't really expect a reply.
 
Wade Lippman said:
I got about 4.5vdc between the 10v and ground terminals. I also got 4.5vdc between the 10v terminal and forward/reverse terminals.
I guess that is definitive for a bad VFD?

I see 4 options:
1) Buy a replacement VFD007S11A. The only one I can find is $300 from Aliexpress.
2) Get mine repaired. Radwell says they will do it for $500.
3) Take it to a Jet authorized repair shop. I am guessing it will be $1,000 for the VFD and Maybe $300 for the labor.
4) Get a different VFD. The guy that referred me here got one for his 240v for $100 on Amazon, but I am unable to find a 120v.

Any advice/help with the fix would be appreciated.

The VFD007S11A is discontinued. I have emailed Delta to ask what the replacement is, but don't really expect a reply.
Click to expand...
One last test disconnect the yellow, green, white and black wire at the VFD then check the voltage from +10V to GND if the voltage is up to 10Volts then possibly the potentiometer is bad or the f/r switch is bad.
Let me know.
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
One last test disconnect the yellow, green, white and black wire at the VFD then check the voltage from +10V to GND if the voltage is up to 10Volts then possibly the potentiometer is bad or the f/r switch is bad.
Let me know.
Click to expand...
Sadly no. It read 5.0, which is up slightly from the 4.5 before; but not 10.
 
The next last test at the VFD (unplug the power then put a jumper form +10V to AVL and a jumper from GND to M0 then plug it back in.
The first jumper should provide a speed setting and the second jumper would be the forward run command.
This probably won't work but it may be worth a try.
To get a quality VFD along with knowledgeable help get a hold of Automation Direct.
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
disconnected
Click to expand...
Nope, no luck. I wasn't sure if the blue wire was supposed to be connected or not, but it was the same either way.

Automation Direct has a couple 120v VFDs. I will call them tomorrow and see what they suggest. Will they know what parameters I should use?

Could I use a 240v VFD? Someone locally replaced it on his 1642-2 (240v with a 2hp motor, as opposed to my 240v with a 1.5hp motor). If I could use the same VFD as him, it might be easier. Would the parameters be the same, or different because the motors are different? I found the below on line; it seems to imply the setting are the same for both; but I sure don't know.

I seriously appreciate your help.

Capture.JPG
 
I have the same model as yours, but a few years older. I had the same problem with my 1642 a number of years ago, after a thunderstorm. An electrical surge fried the VFD and it had to be replaced. It wasn't a cheap fix, but cheaper than buying a new lathe. I read some stuff about DIY repairs, but I suck at electronics so I paid to get it fixed
I now unplug it when it's not being used.
 
Bob Sheppard said:
I have the same model as yours, but a few years older. I had the same problem with my 1642 a number of years ago, after a thunderstorm. An electrical surge fried the VFD and it had to be replaced. It wasn't a cheap fix, but cheaper than buying a new lathe. I read some stuff about DIY repairs, but I suck at electronics so I paid to get it fixed
I now unplug it when it's not being used.
Click to expand...
I leave it plugged in, but I have a surge suppressor on my panel and two more on the outlet where I plug the lathe in. None of them show any damage. Maybe the VFD is more sensitive than the surge protectors.
What did you pay to get it fixed? What is the make and model of the VFD? The original one is discontinued.
 
Wade Lippman said:
Nope, no luck. I wasn't sure if the blue wire was supposed to be connected or not, but it was the same either way.

Automation Direct has a couple 120v VFDs. I will call them tomorrow and see what they suggest. Will they know what parameters I should use?

Could I use a 240v VFD? Someone locally replaced it on his 1642-2 (240v with a 2hp motor, as opposed to my 240v with a 1.5hp motor). If I could use the same VFD as him, it might be easier. Would the parameters be the same, or different because the motors are different? I found the below on line; it seems to imply the setting are the same for both; but I sure don't know.

I seriously appreciate your help.
Click to expand...
When you talk to Automation Direct they should be able to tell you what parameters to set and the connections using the existing switches and pot. The replacement will likely have access to the parameters via the key pad on the front. The Delta appears to be the only VFD that requires an external key pad.
Could I use a 240v VFD? Yes you could maybe if you reconfigured the volts per hertz to 2VPH & the maximum volts to 120 or are you thinking about operating on 240 VAC, in which case look on the motor nameplate to see if it can be rewired to operate on 240 Volts.
TECO is another brand that I have used that you may want to look at.
 
There have been several threads on the forum related to troubleshooting and replacing the Powermatic VFD. the VFD and connections would not be the same for your lathe, but the principles involved would be. One helpful resource is the Doc Green website. He has a step by step troubleshooting guide for electrical problems with the Powermatic.

These days, VFDs are like computer printers--there are many models reasonably available and the current models are much better at a lower cost than the one from 17 years ago. There's no reason to stick with the same model currently on your lathe. Programming can be a challenge, but with patience and persistence, you can do it.
 
hockenbery said:
It is a little bit small for an NE Bowl. If the wood has interesting grain it could be a nice bowl

This one not much over 4” diameter View attachment 45588
Click to expand...

Dean Center said:
These days, VFDs are like computer printers--there are many models reasonably available and the current models are much better at a lower cost than the one from 17 years ago. There's no reason to stick with the same model currently on your lathe. Programming can be a challenge, but with patience and persistence, you can do it.
Click to expand...
The first time I was introduced to VFD's was in 1979 when a company showed their early version of a 1 HP drive and by the 1990s they were beginning to replace DC motors. In 1991 I ran across a new unused 1HP drive with a 3M stock tag on it at an industrial salvage store for $10.00 that I installed on my 1960s era 12" Delta lathe. The drive failed after a few years so I replaced it with an Allen Bradley drive that cost me $600.00 and when I sold the lathe I took the AB off and installed it on my brothers Blount lathe. The next VFD I purchased was a Cutler Hammer branded unit that I installed on my Bridgeport Mill mostly as a phase converter. After moving out of the city in 2006 I equipped my new shop 4 more VFDs with the brands Automation Direct and TECO Westinghouse all of which have changeable parameters that are easily set from the built in front panel. The VFDs that I have used in my home shop are all still operating except for that first failure. The setup and connection is not difficult for me because I have a background in design and programming industrial systems, but I am not the best at explaining to people without an electrical trouble shooting experience.
Getting back to W L's situation: The controls on the Jet appear leave a lot to be desired as it does not look like there is any failsafe protection on there such that if the power failed and the push/pull was in the run position along with F/R switch in one of the run positions, then on re-establishing power the lathe would start. There may be some feature in there that does not show such as a power failure trip on the push / pull switch.
 
Wade Lippman said:
I have a 17 year old Jet 1642 1.5hp 120v lathe.
When I turn it on, nothing happens. The RPMs register when I turn it, but that is all.
I replaced the on/off switch, but it didn't help; both switches test out okay.
The VFD display is blank; presumably it either isn't getting power or is broken. (to be honest, it is on the back of the machine and I never really looked at it, so I don't know for sure it ever showed anything).
The contacts on the forward/reverse switch show Vac whether the power switch is on or off, and Vdc when it is on. I don't know what that means, but the DC has to be coming from somewhere.
I asked about this problem at the local woodworkers club. Someone had the same problem a few years ago with his 1642 220v and fixed it with information he got here. Of course the replacement part and programming would all be different, so he didn't think he could give me much help; but suggested I post here and see if anyone has fixed a 1642 120v.

I would be most grateful for any help.
Click to expand...
I had the same problem several years ago and it turned out to be a loose connection in the inverter box
 
Wade, I modified my 1624-44 to be vfd and used a VFD very similar to this one from Amazon for $120. It has a moveable control board so you could just stick it on the front of your 1644. I am by no means an electrician, but had it going pretty easily. I read many places it is best to have a drive a little over the motor rating, so a 2hp drive on a 1 hp motor allows some excess capacity, possibly extending the lifr of the VFD. The best feature of a VFD vs DVR is they are very inexpensive to swap out the drive.

 
Wade Lippman said:
I leave it plugged in, but I have a surge suppressor on my panel and two more on the outlet where I plug the lathe in. None of them show any damage. Maybe the VFD is more sensitive than the surge protectors.
What did you pay to get it fixed? What is the make and model of the VFD? The original one is discontinued.
Click to expand...
It cost about $900 for the repair. I have no idea what make & model the VFD is. I'll check tomorrow and get back to you.
 
I asked several vendors for recommendations and have come up with two.

Shopping

www.factorymation.com www.factorymation.com

Would either work for me? They are the same price, so that is not an issue.
I can get the original Delta from China for about twice the price. At least it claims to be the original Delta.

I have checked every electrical connection, they are good.
The terminal marked +10V actually reads about 4.8V, and the VFD display does not show any numbers.
 
Wade Lippman said:
I asked several vendors for recommendations and have come up with two.

Shopping

www.factorymation.com www.factorymation.com

Would either work for me? They are the same price, so that is not an issue.
I can get the original Delta from China for about twice the price. At least it claims to be the original Delta.

I have checked every electrical connection, they are good.
The terminal marked +10V actually reads about 4.8V, and the VFD display does not show any numbers.
Click to expand...
Both of those are listed as 1HP but you need 1 1/2 HP
Did you ever check to see if the motor can be rewired for 240 VAC?
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
Both of those are listed as 1HP but you need 1 1/2 HP
Did you ever check to see if the motor can be rewired for 240 VAC?
Click to expand...
The original motor is 3phase. I don't think it knows whether the input to the VFD is 120v or 240v. Though I could be wrong about that.
The original VFD is also 1HP. I don't understand why a 1HP VFD goes on a 1.5HP motor, but Jet seems to do it. Of course... that could be the problem.
 
One other consideration in selecting a VFD is the size of the housing and the location of the mounting screws. It's unlikely you will get one that exactly fits your existing screw holes, so you will probably have to jerry rig a mounting solution. Some size/shapes will fit where you want to put it better than others.

Generally, the salespeople at the VFD retailers are helpful and their recommendations are sound. Good for you for asking for a second opinion, though. There are electronic wizards on here who can be really helpful.
 
Wade Lippman said:
The original motor is 3phase. I don't think it knows whether the input to the VFD is 120v or 240v. Though I could be wrong about that.
The original VFD is also 1HP. I don't understand why a 1HP VFD goes on a 1.5HP motor, but Jet seems to do it. Of course... that could be the problem.
Click to expand...
The VFDs only work with 3 phase motors: The volts per Hertz ( in north America we have 60 cycles per second or 60Hz) of a 240 volt 3Phase motor = 4 as in 240 divided by 60 so if the speed were set to 50% then the controller would put out 120 volt 3Ph 30Hz and a motor with a speed rating of 1725 RPM would turn at 862.5 RPM. Perhaps they are using a 240 volt motor and limiting it to 30 Hz and since HP is a product of torque and speed a 1HP drive should be sufficient.
Any way you look at it it is a Mickey Mouse setup. Note: I was able to spell Mickey Mouse simply by singing the song in my head.
 
I have a JET 1840 that was no longer registering on the tach after a spindle replacement. Long boring story with one important bottom line - Jet Technical super is pretty good. No, they didn't give me the right answer but they DID ultimately give me the right fix.
AND, I respectfully disagree with anyone who says the single phase in to a VFD that provides 220 3 phase out is Mickey Mouse. It's a VERY common configuration used on Vicmarc lathes as well as Jet.
 
Tom Jewett said:
I have a JET 1840 that was no longer registering on the tach after a spindle replacement. Long boring story with one important bottom line - Jet Technical super is pretty good. No, they didn't give me the right answer but they DID ultimately give me the right fix.
AND, I respectfully disagree with anyone who says the single phase in to a VFD that provides 220 3 phase out is Mickey Mouse. It's a VERY common configuration used on Vicmarc lathes as well as Jet.
Click to expand...
The majority of lathes sold with a VFD are capable of being powered by a single phase power source and that is not just Jet and Vicmarc. The Mickey Mouse comment refers 1642 that comes with a 115Volt 15 amp single phase input and a 1HP VFD to power a 1 - 1/2HP 230 V -3PH motor if that is not MM it is definently deceptive. The manual states the input voltage and the size and voltage of the motor, but does not give the size of the VFD, that was something WL had to find out the hard way. There is no way without a 1 to 2 step up transformer, which is not shown on the wiring diagram, to get 230 volts from a 115 volt power source.
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
The VFDs only work with 3 phase motors: The volts per Hertz ( in north America we have 60 cycles per second or 60Hz) of a 240 volt 3Phase motor = 4 as in 240 divided by 60 so if the speed were set to 50% then the controller would put out 120 volt 3Ph 30Hz and a motor with a speed rating of 1725 RPM would turn at 862.5 RPM. Perhaps they are using a 240 volt motor and limiting it to 30 Hz and since HP is a product of torque and speed a 1HP drive should be sufficient.
Any way you look at it it is a Mickey Mouse setup. Note: I was able to spell Mickey Mouse simply by singing the song in my head.
Click to expand...
Hello,
To clarify what a VFD is…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive
 
Wade Lippman said:
The original motor is 3phase. I don't think it knows whether the input to the VFD is 120v or 240v. Though I could be wrong about that.
The original VFD is also 1HP. I don't understand why a 1HP VFD goes on a 1.5HP motor, but Jet seems to do it. Of course... that could be the problem.
Click to expand...

The 1 HP VFD on a 1.5 HP motor just means thaT the motor will be operating reduced output power. The max amps output from the VFD is what determines the output power of the motor. So, if the VFD max output current is about ⅔ of the motor’s FLA then 1 HP is it. FWIW, the motor on a woodturning lathe very rarely outputs full power. One exception is coring.

Don Wattenhofer said:
The majority of lathes sold with a VFD are capable of being powered by a single phase power source and that is not just Jet and Vicmarc. The Mickey Mouse comment refers 1642 that comes with a 115Volt 15 amp single phase input and a 1HP VFD to power a 1 - 1/2HP 230 V -3PH motor if that is not MM it is definently deceptive. The manual states the input voltage and the size and voltage of the motor, but does not give the size of the VFD, that was something WL had to find out the hard way. There is no way without a 1 to 2 step up transformer, which is not shown on the wiring diagram, to get 230 volts from a 115 volt power source.
Click to expand...

It isn’t necessarily to have a step-up transformer. It is easy to design a voltage doubler using semiconductor diodes. The AC power input to the VFD is rectified and filtered to create a DC source for the PWM output semiconductors.
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
The VFDs only work with 3 phase motors: The volts per Hertz ( in north America we have 60 cycles per second or 60Hz) of a 240 volt 3Phase motor = 4 as in 240 divided by 60 so if the speed were set to 50% then the controller would put out 120 volt 3Ph 30Hz and a motor with a speed rating of 1725 RPM would turn at 862.5 RPM. Perhaps they are using a 240 volt motor and limiting it to 30 Hz and since HP is a product of torque and speed a 1HP drive should be sufficient.
Any way you look at it it is a Mickey Mouse setup. Note: I was able to spell Mickey Mouse simply by singing the song in my head.
Click to expand...

??? You are confused about V/Hz.
 
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