Mounting Wood for Small opening vessels

[Jason Van Duyn]

I put together an article covering the various methods in which to mount wood on a lathe. There is a general overview on the main mounting methods. The main reason for writing is to cover mounting methods for vessels, especially natural edge ones, with small openings. I shoot for openings to be around 10% of the overall vessel diameter so that poses challenges for mounting natural edge vessels.

I will caution though that if you try this method get into it carefully and make sure that you are standing in the proper places. Occasionally the wood does come off the lathe and you don't need to be in the line of fire, particularly as you are getting familiar with things.

Hope this proves useful.

https://vanduynwoodwork.com/2019/09...a-lathe-especially-for-small-opening-vessels/

 

[Richard Coers]

First thought, you need to give the tapers on your drive centers some love. For a taper to work well, it has to be smooth and clean. It looks like a couple have spun, so maybe time to invest in some new ones.

 

[Jason Van Duyn]

First thought, you need to give the tapers on your drive centers some love. For a taper to work well, it has to be smooth and clean. It looks like a couple have spun, so maybe time to invest in some new ones.

Thanks for the comments. I basically only use one of those drives now and I see your point. I personally haven't ever had the drive spin in the headstock, though I have had the wood spin on the drive.

JVD
www.vanduynwoodwork.com

 

[Bill Boehme]

First thought, you need to give the tapers on your drive centers some love. For a taper to work well, it has to be smooth and clean. It looks like a couple have spun, so maybe time to invest in some new ones.

I agree. It looks very clear to me that there is galling on at least two of the tapers. This says there is corresponding galling in the spindle Morse taper socket. While the spindle socket can be repaired, never put a damaged MTdrive in an undamaged socket. Time to toss those drives and have the spindle socket repaired.

 

[John Jordan]

I have a morse taper reamer that I will loan out if you pay the shipping both ways. Its simple to use, but expensive to buy.

John

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I have a morse taper reamer that I will loan out if you pay the shipping both ways. Its simple to use, but expensive to buy.

John

What a generous offer John, if I ever need one of those, I know who to call. Jason, better get in touch with John...

 

[Jason Van Duyn]

I have a morse taper reamer that I will loan out if you pay the shipping both ways. Its simple to use, but expensive to buy.

John

Thats very generous of you to offer. I examined it yesterday and everything looks ok, however if something changes Ill keep you in mind.

 

[Mike Johnson]

They sell reasonably priced sets of Morse Taper reamers on eBay and Amazon, definitely worthwhile having a set that matches your equipment. When you have a spur drive or live center that gets worn out you are better off getting a new one and not damaging the Morse taper on your spindle or tail stock. If you have slippage on your tools that mount into your taper bores then you most likely have issues with the taper bore hole or the taper on the insert tool. Keeping both taper surfaces clean goes a long way in preserving the life of these tools.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I am not a machinist but I have looked into the possibility of repairing a bore using a MT reamer. The info I got pointed out that the reamer needs to be lined up accurately to maintain the accuracy. If possible consult with an old time machinist that is if you can find one or just order a replacement spindle.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I am not a machinist but I have looked into the possibility of repairing a bore using a MT reamer. The info I got pointed out that the reamer needs to be lined up accurately to maintain the accuracy. If possible consult with an old time machinist that is if you can find one or just order a replacement spindle.

Your tailstock lines up to your headstock and your headstock lines up with your tail stock, you can use a dead center to align the back end of the reamer bit when you are cleaning up either bore on a lathe, just so long as your headstock and tailstock are in alignment. A small amount of rust, scale or damage in a Morse taper bore is easily renewed with the reaming tool, a wrench and some lubricant, the reamer seats into the original taper bore and follows the same direction of the bore, you are only removing a few thousandths of an inch of material if that. In most instances you are removing dirt, scale, rust and damaged steel from the bore, the original bore is usually left intact. When you spin a spur drive or live/dead center there is usually one small area that incurs damage and the remainder of the bore is usually still intact. A clean Morse taper bore is a happy Morse taper bore.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I put together an article covering the various methods in which to mount wood on a lathe. There is a general overview on the main mounting methods. The main reason for writing is to cover mounting methods for vessels, especially natural edge ones, with small openings. I shoot for openings to be around 10% of the overall vessel diameter so that poses challenges for mounting natural edge vessels.

I will caution though that if you try this method get into it carefully and make sure that you are standing in the proper places. Occasionally the wood does come off the lathe and you don't need to be in the line of fire, particularly as you are getting familiar with things.

Hope this proves useful.

https://vanduynwoodwork.com/2019/09...a-lathe-especially-for-small-opening-vessels/

Not really sure I understand why you have to mount differently for a small opening form... For hollowing forms, I prefer screw plates. The way you mount it looks very flimsy and too far from the headstock. The farther you are the more chances of vibration you have. I know is just a jamb chuck, but I take pride in everything I do, in every single cut, I could not use something with that much-torn grain and look at it every time I use it.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Not really sure I understand why you have to mount differently for a small opening form... For hollowing forms, I prefer screw plates. The way you mount it looks very flimsy and too far from the headstock. The farther you are the more chances of vibration you have. I know is just a jamb chuck, but I take pride in everything I do, in every single cut, I could not use something with that much-torn grain and look at it every time I use it.

I was thinking the same thing as Emiliano plus the how was the depression for the jam chuck made and how would that work for a small opening.The next problem I see is the knife edge on the tailstock end should be cut back to a flat for a cup center to safely hold. Problem #3 is those ragged corners that could easily trimmed off on the band saw. Last point I believe you stated that the turner should stay out of the line of fire because the work piece could come off so you already know it is a poor mounting which is due to the 3 problems EM and DW have identified.

 

[hockenbery]

I use a face plate for most all of my HFS.
I control the grain and natural edge contours by roughing between centers and Turning the faceplate mount after everything is oriented as I want it.

A faceplate and a 4 jaw chuck are equally inflexible. Once mounted in or on either the grain orientation and any natural edge are fixed.

I posted a thread on mounting a faceplate.
It has video clip of mounting a faceplate from a HF demo
http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/mounting-a-faceplate.14749/

 

[Jason Van Duyn]

Not really sure I understand why you have to mount differently for a small opening form... For hollowing forms, I prefer screw plates. The way you mount it looks very flimsy and too far from the headstock. The farther you are the more chances of vibration you have. I know is just a jamb chuck, but I take pride in everything I do, in every single cut, I could not use something with that much-torn grain and look at it every time I use it.

Faceplates to me limit your flexibility in evaluating what sections of the wood that you can use. That being both in the size of the wood and the location of the wood that you are cutting from. Unless you are really darn good at seeing things faceplates are also somewhat prohibitive in terms of balancing out the shape of the natural edge opening. Faceplates certainly get you passed the I want a smaller opening issue. But overall this has been a journey for constantly improving proportion, shape, and opening size. I just find that faceplates slow me down and limit my flexibility to get the best looking form out of a blank that I can get.

As far as the security of the mounting, yes its a jam chuck so its not as secure as one with a drive center or faceplate. That being said I have little issue roughing very irregular shaped wood to form a tenon. Occasionally a piece does fly off, usually because the tailstock is positioned on some bark, but I haven't had any major safety issues. If you stand in front of the lathe then yes its not a good idea, but IMO no one should stand in the line of rotation when roughing out wood.

 

[Jason Van Duyn]

I use a face plate for most all of my HFS.
I control the grain and natural edge contours by roughing between centers and Turning the faceplate mount after everything is oriented as I want it.

A faceplate and a 4 jaw chuck are equally inflexible. Once mounted in or on either the grain orientation and any natural edge are fixed.

I posted a thread on mounting a faceplate.
It has video clip of mounting a faceplate from a HF demo
http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/mounting-a-faceplate.14749/

I agree that once a piece has been mounted with a chuck or faceplate the opening contour and form has generally been established. That's why the flexibility issues that I am referring to are addressed before a tenon is cut or a faceplate is attached. This mounting allows me to make adjustments while the blank is between centers cut out defects or certain areas that aren't desirable before cutting the tenon.

 

[hockenbery]

I agree that once a piece has been mounted with a chuck or faceplate the opening contour and form has generally been established. That's why the flexibility issues that I am referring to are addressed before a tenon is cut or a faceplate is attached. This mounting allows me to make adjustments while the blank is between centers cut out defects or certain areas that aren't desirable before cutting the tenon.

I think we are saying the same thing - maybe you meant to qualify when you would not use a faceplate. As stated you ignore the value of mounting pieces turned between centers on a faceplate. For forms hollowed through the face grain a faceplate is my preferred mounting mechanism and many others do this as well.

Why would you use a Chuck when you would not use a faceplate? They both have the same inflexibility. Also a proper faceplate mount will withstand a lot more forces than a tenon on face grain with less vibration.

What you have on your web page:

“Faceplate mounting offers the least amount of flexibility to control the shape of a vessel and as such I never use a faceplate. It is true that it allows you to make small openings. However, mounting on a drive spur or in the manner I describe below allows some latitude to reposition blanks while turning between centers. You can slide the blank around (in my method) or alter the tailstock position to turn out less desirable sections in the wood. Once a faceplate is attached or the blank is mounted in a chuck that flexibility no longer exsists.

….

“A blank of wood is mounted between centers and turned to true up the shape. A tenon is created on the bottom of an object. This is essentially an area of the wood that is designed to be “grabbed” by the chuck. Its important to turn a good tenon as inferior ones may cause the object to break or tear away from the chuck on a catch.”

 

[Charlie Knighton]

seems maybe ask Derek Wiedman his opinion on best or fastest mounting

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Faceplates to me limit your flexibility in evaluating what sections of the wood that you can use. That being both in the size of the wood and the location of the wood that you are cutting from. Unless you are really darn good at seeing things faceplates are also somewhat prohibitive in terms of balancing out the shape of the natural edge opening. Faceplates certainly get you passed the I want a smaller opening issue. But overall this has been a journey for constantly improving proportion, shape, and opening size. I just find that faceplates slow me down and limit my flexibility to get the best looking form out of a blank that I can get.

As far as the security of the mounting, yes its a jam chuck so its not as secure as one with a drive center or faceplate. That being said I have little issue roughing very irregular shaped wood to form a tenon. Occasionally a piece does fly off, usually because the tailstock is positioned on some bark, but I haven't had any major safety issues. If you stand in front of the lathe then yes its not a good idea, but IMO no one should stand in the line of rotation when roughing out wood.

Well, yes, you should always start between centers, then add the faceplate. I start about 99% of my work between centers. That's how most professional turners do it, like Al Hockenberry has written about it.