Mountain Mahogany, Robo & Lucid Woodturners

[Emiliano Achaval]

I was only home from Portland for a day and left for the Big Island. Just got back today. Wayne Omura and I, first time attendees had a blast! To me, felt like a big family reunion. I could not walk more than just a few minutes before someone would stop me to say hello, introduced themselves, or I would recognize somebody and I had to stop...
I got to meet so many of you!! Robo gave me a beautiful piece of Mountain Mahogany. While we were helping Alan and Lauren Zenreich take down the Lucid Woodturners booth with Mike Peace, Mike told me the story about where Robo got the timber. Quite the entertaining story, only a woodturner would go to such lengths to get some wood! I will let Robo tell us about it.
We had a great Thursday night special interest session with Alan and Lauren Zenreich about Live remote demonstrations. I was a part of the panel with Alan, Lyle Jamieson, Mike Mahoney and Dick Gerard, that called in remotely, very appropriate. I joined remotely last year... We had a lot of people attending. Alan had a Booth to keep the momentum going, Lucid Woodturners booth was there to teach anybody about how we use the software and cameras, and lots of other technologies that help woodturners do a better job. lauren was also at the booth with her tools and toys that she uses with her exquisite embellished pendants.

The Lucid Woodturners website was officially introduced. Not sure if @AlanZ has made an "Official" announcement here on the forum about it. I will let him talk about the great new web site.

I got to spend time with Mike Hunter, Doug Thompson, Jimmy Clewes, Mark Baker, David Heim, Alan and Lauren Zenreich, Mike Peace, and lots more! I also go to meet the person that motivated and helped me get the Maui club started, our own fabulous Linda Ferber!! I had a Maui woodturners patch for her, I forgot about it due to the excitement of meeting her! I'm already making plans for Raleigh! Thank you to all the volunteers for a great job.

(I tried to edit the title to take out one B out Robo but could not, maybe @Bill Boehme could do it for me)

 

[Bill Boehme]

Spelling error fixed in title and in post. I'll let Reed decide on a suitable punishment.

Wish I could have been there. It sounds like it was a blast. If you have nothing planned in August, you could come to SWAT to meet some more of the forum members.

 

[robo hippy]

The long story is over on Sawmill Creek, 'Quest for Mountain Mahogany'. If you are not familiar with the wood, it likes high mountain arid areas in the western mountains. The particular harvest I got was just north of Las Vegas at 8500 feet. The forest service was thinning for fire safety, mostly for houses that get lived in a few weeks out of the year. Other than that you are not allowed to harvest the wood because it is so slow growing and is important browse food for the winter animals. They were going to cut it up for fire wood... Anyway, got a buddy and loaded our chainsaws in my van. He had to show the Forest service in Las Vegas how to write out a fire wood permit and they sent a couple of their guys up with us into the hills. Totally loaded up my 3/4 ton van, and a big U Haul with as much as it would carry, about 1/3 full. Growth rings are 80 to 100 per inch and we got a couple that were 18 inch plus diameter. Allen Batty said it is the only north American wood suitable for hand chasing threads. Very hard, no oil, but grain tends to run wild. Called mahogany because of the red color. It polishes up exceptionally to the point where you don't want to put finish on it... Found out it doesn't make good fret boards for guitars though, for some reason it doesn't stop moving. Great for smoking when you grill.

robo hippy

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Allen Batty said it is the only north American wood suitable for hand chasing threads.

Interesting statement.........but a good reason to consider "cutting" threads rather than scraping as in hand chasing.

 

[Donovan Bailey]

I find that a good part of my enjoyment in turning is continually searching for some "special wood." I've waded swamps, fought snow storms, invited lightening strikes, etc., but scaling Mt. Everest to get some Mountain Mahogany is still on the to-do list...but, yes, I would gladly do so. Congrats on the find and catch.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

The long story is over on Sawmill Creek, 'Quest for Mountain Mahogany'. If you are not familiar with the wood, it likes high mountain arid areas in the western mountains. The particular harvest I got was just north of Las Vegas at 8500 feet. The forest service was thinning for fire safety, mostly for houses that get lived in a few weeks out of the year. Other than that you are not allowed to harvest the wood because it is so slow growing and is important browse food for the winter animals. They were going to cut it up for fire wood... Anyway, got a buddy and loaded our chainsaws in my van. He had to show the Forest service in Las Vegas how to write out a fire wood permit and they sent a couple of their guys up with us into the hills. Totally loaded up my 3/4 ton van, and a big U Haul with as much as it would carry, about 1/3 full. Growth rings are 80 to 100 per inch and we got a couple that were 18 inch plus diameter. Allen Batty said it is the only north American wood suitable for hand chasing threads. Very hard, no oil, but grain tends to run wild. Called mahogany because of the red color. It polishes up exceptionally to the point where you don't want to put finish on it... Found out it doesn't make good fret boards for guitars though, for some reason it doesn't stop moving. Great for smoking when you grill.

robo hippy

I used to go Sawmill creek, good reason to go there again. I love to turn wood that has a story behind it. This piece is a souvenir from my first Symposium, a gift from a good friend, a great woodturner that went thru great lengths to get the wood. Needles to say, whatever I make will stay in My collection.
Thank you Robo again for the wood. Please send me your address in a message, I would like to send you a little something from Maui. Aloha.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Interesting statement.........but a good reason to consider "cutting" threads rather than scraping as in hand chasing.

When you chase threads in the traditional woods like English Boxwood, you cut the threads. Same as working with something like African Blackwood, we use the "Bone Grubbers" techniques, the old Ivory turners. I believe when Alan said Mountain Mahogany was good for threads he meant was dense enough to cut threads....

 

[robo hippy]

I probably should have said it is good for hand chasing threads. Very hard, no oil, and smooth even grain. I have only turned some green boxwood. I have some that is drying... Box demo coming up in September.

robo hippy

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

When you chase threads in the traditional woods like English Boxwood, you cut the threads. Same as working with something like African Blackwood, we use the "Bone Grubbers" techniques, the old Ivory turners. I believe when Alan said Mountain Mahogany was good for threads he meant was dense enough to cut threads....

I think you misunderstood my point.

Hand chasing of threads is a scraping operation. The tools act like scrapers. In a few videos on the subject, there's mention of the scraping action of the tool. Hand chasing requires woods of high density which limits you to certain woods. Using a threading jig with a cutting action type tool allows good quality threads to be done in less dense woods meaning less expensive domestic woods.

I sense a little elitism in hand chasing threads. It is a traditional method, but who really cares? I suppose hand chasing plays well in demos. If the idea is to get good threads to attach a top to a container use a threading jig.

 

[john lucas]

Actually hand chasing has it's place. For example if you want to put threads on the handle of a gavel. How would you do that with the various threading machines. It's easy by hand chasing. Now of course you could use a tap and die but then they tend to tear the wood worse than hand chasing. It's also really easy to sneak up on a perfect fit hand chasing. I can do that with my Baxter threader by taking .005" passes for the last few but of course you have to stop the lathe, move the threader back, check the fit, move the threader back into position and do it again. When hand chasing you just stop the lathe and check the fit. Very quick. So really they both have their place. Also when I travel to do demos you need a lathe that fits or take your own lathe. With hand chasing you just need a lathe that slows down to 500rpm.

 

[hockenbery]

.....
Hand chasing requires woods of high density which limits you to certain woods. Using a threading jig with a cutting action type tool allows good quality threads to be done in less dense woods meaning less expensive domestic woods.

I sense a little elitism in hand chasing threads. ....".

Good point you can certainly cut usable threads in a lot more species with threading jig.
i agree 100% Anyone threading North American woods will be more successful with a jig.

Not sure what you mean by Elitism ? Added value? Pride in tool usage?

Plenty of room for both. I find chasing
more pleasurable than using a jig.
faster on on ofs
Not as effective as a jig on most native hardwoods

 

[Bill Boehme]

I think you misunderstood my point.

Hand chasing of threads is a scraping operation. The tools act like scrapers. In a few videos on the subject, there's mention of the scraping action of the tool. Hand chasing requires woods of high density which limits you to certain woods. Using a threading jig with a cutting action type tool allows good quality threads to be done in less dense woods meaning less expensive domestic woods.

I sense a little elitism in hand chasing threads. It is a traditional method, but who really cares? I suppose hand chasing plays well in demos. If the idea is to get good threads to attach a top to a container use a threading jig.

I think that a close examination shows that hand chasing threads cuts without a relief angle on the sides of the V so it is a bevel contact cut. The hand chasing tools cut with bevel contact because the tool provides the desired pitch angle for a nominal diameter of about two inches for a 16 TPI thread. If a scraping cut were made then the tool would only cut rings rather than a helix. A fly cutter on the other hand does have a slight relief angle which would make it more of a scrape if you want to use bevel contact as the discriminator between cutting and scraping. However, I do agree that you can get a more precise and cleaner thread using a threading jig, but it has nothing to do with scraping or cutting ... the real difference is the precision that can be achieved with a machine versus the limitation of hand/eye steadiness when striking a thread and trying to precisely follow the thread through multiple passes.

Slicing and scraping are both techniques for cutting wood. One isn't necessarily superior to the other. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and should express their arguments without making personal sniping comments such as your comment about elitism. While that might be how you feel, that doesn't contribute anything to the discussion other than ill will. So, just a reminder to everybody, there's room for everybody in the sandbox if we all play nice.

 

[john lucas]

Part of what differs between power cutting threads and hand chasing is the power cutter has 6 or more teeth and rotating at 2500 or more rpm so it's taking a very small bite per revolution. The hand chaser on the other hand is taking one bite per revolution.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

The elitism impression is something I got from a couple of videos, possibly it wasn't elitism, more the formality of some English people. Maybe more of my impressions of elitism came from the ornamental turners who hand chase that I met when attending their AAW sub-chapter symposium 10 years ago. With the OT'ers it was do it the traditional way or not at all.

Anyway, getting to the hand chasers, I would consider tools that operate with no back rake to be more scraper than a slicing tool. I haven't looked at one in years and those were antique ones meant for metal threading. Because it has a pitch angle (or thread helix angle) ground into it doesn't doesn't make it any less of a scraper IMHO.

 

[robo hippy]

All of the hand chasing threading tools I have seen are scrapers. Scrapers can leave glass smooth cuts in end grain, but do leave more torn grain in side grain cutting. Sharpness really helps.

robo hippy