Motor for bowl-buffing set-up

[Jamie Straw]

I have a languishing motor from a Steel City mortiser, and am wondering if it could be set up for a bowl-buffer. I think it turns at 1725rpm. It's never been used, arrived with a bad start capacitor and they just sent me a new motor. Other than replacing the capacitor, what else would I need and does that rotation speed work? Thanks!

 

[Bill Boehme]

How do you plan to attach the buffing wheels to the motor?

If you plan to have the buffing wheels on a separate shaft and drive it with a belt and pulleys you can use that to reduce the speed although I don't know what the ideal speed might be.

 

[Odie]

Jamie......your 1725rpm motor will work fine as a direct drive. This is my home built buffing station made from the original motor to my lathe when I converted to variable speed. It's also 1725rpm. What's the horsepower rating of the motor you want to use? I first used a 1/2hp motor, and that one bogged down too much. Mine is 1 1/2hp, and that's more power than is necessary, but works like a charm. I'd say 3/4 to 1hp would be ideal.

I'm using the Beall system......

ko

 

[john lucas]

I use 3 or 4" wheels instead of the 8" that come with the Beale so the lower horsepower motors work fine and 1725 isn't a bad speed. I tend to buff at much lower speeds than most people which is why I went to the 3" buffs.

 

[Odie]

I use 3 or 4" wheels instead of the 8" that come with the Beale so the lower horsepower motors work fine and 1725 isn't a bad speed. I tend to buff at much lower speeds than most people which is why I went to the 3" buffs.

Glad you brought that up, John.......

For my purposes, the 8" buffs are ideal for exterior work. For interior work, I seldom use the large buffs, except for platters and bowls with openings larger than 8". I have sets of 2", 3", and 4" buffs that are my usual go-to for interior work. I use the 8" buffs whenever I can, because they do the job faster, and I want to spend as little time as possible for buffing operations. Buffing is boring! 😛

That is a good point about using a lesser horsepower motor for the smaller buffs, and this is a good consideration for those who have motors with less power to work with.

ko

 

[Jamie Straw]

[Snip]
For my purposes, the 8" buffs are ideal for exterior work. For interior work, I seldom use the large buffs, except for platters and bowls with openings larger than 8". I have sets of 2", 3", and 4" buffs that are my usual go-to for interior work. I use the 8" buffs whenever I can, because they do the job faster, and I want to spend as little time as possible for buffing operations. Buffing is boring! 😛
[Snip]
ko

Your interior buffs being mops of a sort, right? [the round or semi-round buffers]

 

[Odie]

Your interior buffs being mops of a sort, right? [the round or semi-round buffers]

Yes, you are correct...I guess "mop" would be an applicable term. I have two types of 4" buffs. One is made just like the larger 8" buffs, only smaller diameter, and the circumference is the area used for buffing. These are intended to be used radially, or 90° to the axis, while the "bowl buffs" are used in line with the axis, or pushed straight on to the surface being buffed. Those designated as "bowl buffs" are rounded, or semi-round shape. My "bowl buffs" are a little different than those currently available. They are full round like a ball, and those that are currently being sold appear to be semi-round....like a ball cut in half......the rounded side being the business end. I can see advantages to both types, but I don't think those that I have are available any longer.

The Beall buffs, and bowl buffs, seem to last for a very long time, if used properly. Surprisingly, I'm still on my first set, after having buffed out a couple hundred bowls with them so far. I think the biggest factor for longevity, is to use the compounds sparingly, and thus avoid overloading them. At first, it seemed I was constantly trimming straggler strings from the buffs (with scissors), but I don't have to do that nearly as much as I did when the buffs were new.

Like many things woodturning, don't rush yourself.......the more in a hurry you are, the more behind you get......(if you get my meaning! 😛)

ko

 

[olaf Vogel]

How do you plan to attach the buffing wheels to the motor?

If you plan to have the buffing wheels on a separate shaft and drive it with a belt and pulleys you can use that to reduce the speed although I don't know what the ideal speed might be.

for attaching the buffer wheel, here's one solution:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=41743&cat=1,43072,45939,41743

My favourite set up is a 1/2 hp motor, 3 ph - these are cheap, I bought 3 of them (used, old) for < $80.
Add a small VFD, so you can adjust the speed as needed.
A 3 way rotary switch allows me to run all the motors off the same VDF.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Thanks for the great ideas , Olaf.

 

[Odie]

for attaching the buffer wheel, here's one solution:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=41743&cat=1,43072,45939,41743

My favourite set up is a 1/2 hp motor, 3 ph - these are cheap, I bought 3 of them (used, old) for < $80.
Add a small VFD, so you can adjust the speed as needed.
A 3 way rotary switch allows me to run all the motors off the same VDF.

That sounds very innovative, olaf.......

Question: Do you run three motors for Beall buffing? One for EEE, one for White Diamond, and one for Carnauba wax?

ko

 

[Jamie Straw]

for attaching the buffer wheel, here's one solution:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=41743&cat=1,43072,45939,41743

My favourite set up is a 1/2 hp motor, 3 ph - these are cheap, I bought 3 of them (used, old) for < $80.
Add a small VFD, so you can adjust the speed as needed.
A 3 way rotary switch allows me to run all the motors off the same VDF.

Thanks for the link, Olaf. As soon as my stepson has time to put the capacitor on, and we're sure the motor works, I'll be putting something together.

 

[Fred Belknap]

I use the Beal buffing system. When I first got it I put it on a 1750rpm motor and wasn't happy with the single high speed. I now use it on my variable speed lathe and can adjust the speed which for me is much better. I usually use the EEE at 1000 rpm and the wax at around 600 rpm. That works for me, I know others may prefer a different speed. With the system installed on the lathe you have options.

 

[john lucas]

I also use my lathe. I use an 8" extension that I got from Don Pencil I think. It works wonderfully because I can use any rpm that my lathe will go and the extension lets me reach into the bottom of deep vessels with either the 8" or 3" or some of my round mops. It's not the Don Pencil extension but I found this one in Packard catalog.
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Mer...re_Code=packard&Category_Code=finish-buffadap

 

[olaf Vogel]

That sounds very innovative, olaf.......

Question: Do you run three motors for Beall buffing? One for EEE, one for White Diamond, and one for Carnauba wax?

ko

Exactly. Then I don;t have to change the wheels or clean them off each time.
I tend to set and do things in batches. A few turning weekends, then let them dry.
Finishes get applied in the evening when I'm bored.

Then I'll do a buffing weekend.
The motors are mounted on an old cabinet, with wheels on the bottom. So if the weather is nice, I just roll it out into the driveway - and all the dust just flies away.... 🙂

I'm still trying to build a similar set up for power sanding outside.

 

[olaf Vogel]

I forgot a few solutions:

1)
If you are going to use one motor and multiple wheels, then try this:
http://www.caswellcanada.ca/shop/tapered-buffing-spindle.html

The wheels just spin on (and off). But you will need ones with a small centre hole.
I have use them and they work as advertised.

2)
Any cheap ol bench grinder will do the job, for two wheels. Just rip off all the guards.
It won't give you speed control. but you could always go for a smaller wheel, to get lower surface speeds.

3)
Lastly, Lee Valley to the rescue again.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32960&cat=1,43072,45939

Any of those adapters above will fit onto these mandrels. Add a motor and cheap v-belt.
Swap pulleys until you find the speed you want.

4)
Technically you could use a rod and pillow blocks, then put the adapters on the ends. But for $40, its likely not worth the DIY effort.

Happy buffing!

<haven't been turning in a month and am itching to get back to it....instead of this silly work thing....sigh>

 

[Odie]

Just wondering here.......I'm having great success with all sizes of buffs @1725rpm, and never felt the need to adjust rpm because my results have been superb. So, what is it you all are finding that makes a slower rpm advantageous to your buffing? Could it be that my surface preparation has something to do with the success I've been enjoying.....? Or, quite possibly my buffing technique is different....? Really, I don't know the answer to these questions......all I know is I'm finding my buffing to meet my expectations, and I'm extremely hard to please.....especially when I self-evaluate my own work.......😱

ko

 

[Fred Belknap]

So, what is it you all are finding that makes a slower rpm advantageous to your buffing? Could it be that my surface preparation has something to do with the success I've been enjoying.....? Or, quite possibly my buffing techniq

Odie it is probably how we finish. I spray finish most of the time using fast drying polyurethane and have the need sometimes to buff the next day. I don't have the heat and burn through to deal with. My customers seem to be quite happy with the way I finish my bowls. More than one way to skin a cat. The slower speed reduces the snatch and slam against the wall. The EEE 8" buff is quite hard at 1750 rpm.

 

[Odie]

Odie it is probably how we finish. I spray finish most of the time using fast drying polyurethane and have the need sometimes to buff the next day. I don't have the heat and burn through to deal with. My customers seem to be quite happy with the way I finish my bowls. More than one way to skin a cat. The slower speed reduces the snatch and slam against the wall. The EEE 8" buff is quite hard at 1750 rpm.

Thanks for the come-back, Fred......

Well, duh! 😱

Seeing it from your perspective makes some sense. I guess I'm guilty of "tunnel vision" 😀

ko

 

[Odie]

The slower speed reduces the snatch and slam against the wall. The EEE 8" buff is quite hard at 1750 rpm.

Speaking of "snatch and slam"......for a few years, I used disposable latex gloves while buffing....for extra grip on bowls. This works very well, but I find I'm not using the gloves very often anymore. It's all a matter of developing your Beall buffing technique, and knowing what situations to avoid. I guess you know what I mean when I say that I lost a few bowls shortly after getting the Beall buffing system. THAT makes a guy really feel some despair, and want to turn out the lights to go do something else for awhile! Ha, ha! 😀

I'm not sure I understand your findings that EEE is "quite hard at 1750 rpm"......but, it's possible you are allowing your EEE wheel to load up a little too much. When that happens, it's time to grab some 60 grit sandpaper, and clean off the wheel......start over again building up a very thin layer of compound to work with. Another thing that helps, is to take a piece of scrap wood and run it on the wheel just after you apply the EEE compound. This seems to spread the compound evenly, and better for consistency. I use the scrap wood after applying all three compounds, but use three different pieces of scrap wood to do it......one for each compound.

ko

 

[Raul McCai]

what do you use for buffing compounds?

 

[Odie]

what do you use for buffing compounds?

Raul......I use the standard EEE, White Diamond, and Carnauba wax that's supplied with the Beall buffing method.......nothing special.

ko

 

[Odie]

Another thing that helps, is to take a piece of scrap wood and run it on the wheel just after you apply the EEE compound. This seems to spread the compound evenly, and better for consistency. I use the scrap wood after applying all three compounds, but use three different pieces of scrap wood to do it......one for each compound.

ko

Here's a photo of the three pieces of scrap wood I use directly after applying Beall compounds to the wheels. I've modified them into a "paddle" shape, and they're clearly marked so that none can be confused for the other. It's important to keep the compounds strictly on the appropriate wheel, and never intermixed.....and, I'm one who makes inadvertent mistakes like that! 😱

While I took the photo, I noticed the EEE wheel is almost as large as the original size, but the WD and Carnauba wheels are progressively smaller from wear. I guess the composition of the latter two are less resistant to wear.

ko

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Motor for Buffing Wheels

Just ordered 3 buffing wheels, the large size ones. I was thinking of setting up a buffing station with an electric motor.... What is a reasonably priced solution. Any sources for used motors, like I saw above on this thread? Any Ideas or recommendations are welcome.
By the way, I got voted as the first President of AAW newest chapter club, The Maui Woodturners Association!!
Aloha to all, thanks for the help.

 

[john lucas]

Well I used a really cheap motor, my lathe. I purchased an 8" extension designed to go from the lathe to the Beal wheels. I got mine from Don Pencil but I don't know if he still sells them. I think I saw something similar in the Packard catalog but not sure. I just put that on the lathe and screw in a wheel. I use the 3" wheels 99% of the time so it works really well for most things under about 14". Larger bowls can get challenging but can be done.

 

[Odie]

Just ordered 3 buffing wheels, the large size ones. I was thinking of setting up a buffing station with an electric motor.... What is a reasonably priced solution. Any sources for used motors, like I saw above on this thread? Any Ideas or recommendations are welcome.
By the way, I got voted as the first President of AAW newest chapter club, The Maui Woodturners Association!!
Aloha to all, thanks for the help.

Congratulations on being voted president of your chapter, Emiliano.......😀

I just ran a search on ebay for "1725 motor", and got over eight thousand hits:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...RC2.A0.H3.X1725.TRS0&_nkw=1725+motor&_sacat=0

It looks like you won't have any trouble finding what you want......anywhere from $50-$200 bucks for a good new/used 3/4hp motor. Personally, I wouldn't go less than 3/4hp.....

You also might check out motor rebuilders in your area. I bought a used rebuilt motor pretty cheap that way. Craig's list is also a good source.....either the motor on it's own, or plenty of older machinery that can be had cheap that way......

ko

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Congratulations on being voted president of your chapter, Emiliano.......😀

I just ran a search on ebay for "1725 motor", and got over eight thousand hits:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...RC2.A0.H3.X1725.TRS0&_nkw=1725+motor&_sacat=0

It looks like you won't have any trouble finding what you want......anywhere from $50-$200 bucks for a good new/used 3/4hp motor. Personally, I wouldn't go less than 3/4hp.....

You also might check out motor rebuilders in your area. I bought a used rebuilt motor pretty cheap that way. Craig's list is also a good source.....either the motor on it's own, or plenty of older machinery that can be had cheap that way......

ko

Like Kelly said there are plenty of options. I bought a buffer from HF for about $49 on sale. It works but does stall easily. You can build your own, but will need arbor adapter which is available from Beal just tightens on with allen screws. You can get an arbor (MT) from Beal also and extensions to about 4 inches each (can stack another for longer).

 

[Bob Howell]

I too use my lathe, or lathes. Over the past 3 years I bought several more used lathes and have them set up around the shop. One is just outside the door and used for sanding. I installed a jackshaft and it can run as slow as 125rpm. The other lathes have variable speed drives.

I use the Beal mt adaptor.