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Morse Taper Adaptor

Robin Thompson

Robin Thompson

Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
92
Likes
18
Location
Sarnia, Ontario
I have been using a lathe with a #1 morse taper on the headstock and tailstock and have Oneway live center and spur centers. I have just acquired another lathe that is #2 morse taper and I know I can get adaptors to step up from the #1 to #2 taper. I am wondering if any accuracy will be sacrificed by using adaptors. Ordering new centers from Oneway is a lot more expensive but if that is recommended I will do so. Any advice appreciated.
 
My experience with adapters is that they add a couple of thousandths to the alignment errors.

The alignment error on the tailstock is usually significant, and it changes each time you move the tailstock. The adapter won't make a noticeable difference.

The headstock spindle is more critical since an error means that the drive center is wobbling. I would suggest replacing the drive center instead of trying to use an adapter. The costs are similar and the results would be more consistent.
 
I have several I used to use when I had a mini that had #1 tapers. I never noticed a problem. I use them now on my metal lathe and have #2 to #3. No problems. I do have some problems when using the #2 morse taper extension. That will sometimes be off just a little when used on my wood lathe. I don't think wood lathes are as accurate as metal lathes.
 
Robin Thompson said:
I have been using a lathe with a #1 morse taper on the headstock and tailstock and have Oneway live center and spur centers. I have just acquired another lathe that is #2 morse taper and I know I can get adaptors to step up from the #1 to #2 taper. I am wondering if any accuracy will be sacrificed by using adaptors. Ordering new centers from Oneway is a lot more expensive but if that is recommended I will do so. Any advice appreciated.
Click to expand...

Everything has machining tolerances and the tolerances are cumulative when adding another element between two parts. Personally, I think that using an adapter is more expense than it is worth. Since you still have the small lathe, consider keeping those tools with that lathe and get MT2 tools for your new lathe.
 
I am speaking in theory only, here.......since I have not used Morse taper adaptors.

Both Michael M, and John Lucas are correct.

With every machining operation, the possible loss of accuracy is increased. An adaptor may run perfectly true, and it might not......but, the probability is consistent with the odds that it isn't.

It won't make that much difference, with the exception of a re-mount. In that case, a center that isn't running perfectly true will increase any concentricity issues that existed with the first mount.....resulting in a wobble. When no re-mount is in the cards, it really won't make any difference if the point of the center isn't running perfectly true, because the center of the turning IS running perfectly true.

ooc
 
I use a 3M to 2M sleeve to use 2M centers in the one way tailstock.
I also use a 2m 2m extender on the rare occasions when I want to use a spur drive on an oddball piece of wood has something that would hit the headstock withouth the extension.
I never had any problems using these adapters.
 
Al just reminded me I carry a #3 to #2 adaptor with me when traveling because I occasionally run into a Oneway lathe that has the #3 morse taper in the tailstock. I've never had a problem and I use it for drilling which is usually where problems show up.
that brings me to a point. Why did Oneway do that. I see no reason. If you wanted to make the tailstock quill stronger by making it larger wouldn't it make more sense to add more metal by making the outside the same as it is now but using a #2 taper hole. I thought maybe they did that so you could bore larger holes for lamps but I don't remember the through hole being larger. Could be wrong on that one but no one makes a lamp auger larger than 3/8". Is it the thread size that drives the Quill?. The New powermatic 2442 has an ACME thread which is stonger than traditional threads used on the quill on most lathes. I don't know, just wondering. I suppose I should write Oneway.
 
#3 tapers support drilling better than a #2.

Oneway uses #3 on their big lathes and Robust has #3 an option on the AB.

Largest drill bit with #2 taper is 1" diameter
I use a 1 1/2 and a 1 1/16 drill bits with a #3 taper quite a " bit"

The drill bits with tapers are really fast to swap and easy to use.
Also Jacobs chucks in a #3 seat more securely

Al
 
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john lucas said:
... wouldn't it make more sense to add more metal by making the outside the same as it is now but using a #2 taper hole.
Click to expand...

The larger diameter of the MT3 and its greater surface area both provide more resistance to spinning. I figured that it might be a throwback to the old days of dead centers, but Al is probably right that it has to do with drilling from the tailstock.
 
Using different headstock and tailstock Morse tapers doesn't make much sense......unless it has to do with hockenbery's idea that it would provide for larger drilling. Then again, that strategy only has a valid application for production drilling. Most of us will simply get a Forstner bit that will drill large accurate holes, when speed isn't the issue.

If I had a lot of large holes to drill, I might consider the #3MT drill bit a good option.......but, seriously now.......how often do most of us have the need for much drilling, except for on an occasional basis?

There's one more thing about Oneway lathes that I think they are missing the boat on.......spindle size options. I wonder how many sales they are missing out on, by not offering a 1 1/4" x 8tpi spindle.

Some of their other accessories are near perfection......bowl steady, tool rests, Stronghold chucks......but, their reasoning for the mismatched Morse tapers and lack of getting with the program and offering a spindle size that most accessories are offered in, doesn't make much sense at all.

ooc
 
odie said:
.....but, seriously now.......how often do most of us have the need for much drilling, except for on an occasional basis?
Click to expand...

Odie ,

A lot of us turn hollow forms and I would guess that 99% of us that do drill a pilot hole to depth. We drill every time we do a form.

A 1 1/6 pilot hole starts a bunch of my forms. My #3M will drill 7+ inches deep. Sure is convenient.

Lots of other solutions.

I also use some long bits fitted in turned handles and others held with vice grips.
Forster bits can be used with extensions.
I much prefer the twist drills because they leave a smooth bottom.
With the Forstner or brad point the lead point hole has to be turned away.

Al
 
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hockenbery said:
Odie ,

A lot of us turn hollow forms and I would guess that 99% of us that do drill a pilot hole to depth. We drill every time we do a form.

A 1 1/6 pilot hole starts a bunch of my forms. My #3M will drill 7+ inches deep. Sure is convenient.

Lots of other solutions.

I also use some long bits fitted in turned handles and others held with vice grips.
Forster bits can be used with extensions.
I much prefer the twist drills because they leave a smooth bottom.
With the Forstner or brad point the lead point hole has to be turned away.

Al
Click to expand...

Yes, of course, Al........

I didn't mean to suggest that nobody has purpose for a #3MT, and obviously you are one who does. Sorry for not making it more clear my thoughts. 😱

There is no way to design a lathe that exactly fits the needs of every turner. I'm one who has little need for a Morse taper in the tailstock, but when I do, the #2MT serves my purposes very well. There have been times when I've needed to use the same accessory at both locations.

later......

ooc
 
Thanks very much for the feedback on use of adaptors - all good info. Besides that, I must be living under a rock because I never realized drill bits came with the various tapers. All this time I have been using a chuck with a #1M. That will change because the chuck sure does add a lot of play when drilling.
I will probably order the#2M live center from Oneway. The problem with that will be when I place my order for a 2436 (soon) I will again have to order # 3M live center.
Just part of the money pit or abyss a turner falls into I guess.
 
For sure I have seriously considered the Robust AB with 3hp as an option. Price difference at this time is significant due to the value of Canadian currency (.91) to US dollar. As well, I live in Whitehorse, Yukon and the shipping from the dealer in Vancouver for a Robust is nuts. By the time I am finished, moving to a Robust will cost me an additional 2,000. Additionally, I will be moving back to Sarnia, Ontario in a couple of years and Oneway Manufacturing is only 1 1/2 hours from there. Being that close to the manufacturer will have benefits.
 
Just a note to Odie regarding no lathe having exactly what every turner would want. As soon as you "arrive" in the notice of those who collect wood art and your shop becomes a studio, you might feel the need to expand your stable of lathes. I just wanted to let you know that each Robust lathe is custom built so that you can choose spindle size, MT size, motor size, bed length, and various other things. 😀
 
I talked to Kevin Clay at Oneway. He said they did that because a #3 morse taper is stronger and some people are using their lathes to turn large porch columns and such. The wood can weight 100 lbs when you start. Makes sense to me.
 
john lucas said:
I talked to Kevin Clay at Oneway. He said they did that because a #3 morse taper is stronger and some people are using their lathes to turn large porch columns and such. The wood can weight 100 lbs when you start. Makes sense to me.
Click to expand...
John did you mean a 1000 pounds? Some of my hollow form blanks weight close to a hundred and maybe a bit more.

Al
 
Sounds like a contrived explanation to me. Must be really short porch columns and the lathe came before the user so he must have decided that short porch column turners was going to be his primary market. I suspect that practically all porch columns are made on CNC lathes.
 
porch columns

Bill Boehme said:
Sounds like a contrived explanation to me. Must be really short porch columns and the lathe came before the user so he must have decided that short porch column turners was going to be his primary market. I suspect that practically all porch columns are made on CNC lathes.
Click to expand...

Bill -The builder that I have had add a 3 seasons room, deck, remodel bathroom, and re side my house asked me years ago about lathes. He is quite a perfectionist-but not anal and he and his men work quickly and things done well. . He wanted to make his own porch columns. Not sure why (to make ones that are good and yet inexpensive???). So he made a shop in back of his house, and got a lathe. I was in his shop 4-5 years ago and he had a long one on the lathe,.= Said that his research said poplar was the best wood to use.-so not that heavy (forget the brand lathe-the maker died? or at least they don't make them anymore) . Could it be Ed ??/ I forget-getting to be a common occurrence😱!!) Doweled them together???? . Haven't asked him if he has made alot, Gretch
 
Bill he was talking about very long columns. I don't know how long,but I'm guessing 8 feet or more. Nick Cook now has a lathe that is at least that long. It's the 2442 Powermatic but it has a #2 morse taper in the tailstock.
 
I know a few folks who turn columns and long posts.

One has a 24" powermatic with 3 extra beds.
Another has a ONEWAY 2436 with 2 extra beds
One has 3 or 4 Olivers. These are huge machines I found a few photos on the internet.
Most have a rack and pinion mechanism to move the banjo up and down the ways and a screw adjustment to move the tool rest in and out.
Most wooden columns today run from 8 feet in length to 16 feet in length. Some probably go over 20.
Most are glued up stave construction and hollow.

Al
 

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There was a very old lathe on display at SWAT that made me think of a locomotive as a means of comparison. And it was about as heavy as a locomotive. It looked a lot like the sketch in Al's post above. I seem to recall that it had a faceplate mounted that was maybe three feet in diameter. The owner had it for sale. I'm pretty sure that John Lucas saw it and maybe his memory is better than mine. Maybe if I wasore seriously into pen turning tnen I might consider getting it.

I can see a need for hand turning a column in a restoration project, but all of the new homes around here with columns use the machine made staved kind.
 
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Even stave construction is pretty heavy. The Gun cabinet that I made was made out of 1" lumber and was 54" long. It probably weighted 35 lbs or so. If you wanted deep coves you would have to use 2x4's. If you made it 8 feet long it would be fairly heavy.
 
Bill Boehme said:
There was a very old lathe on display at SWAT that made me think of a locomotive as a means of comparison. And it was about as heavy as a locomotive. It looked a lot like the sketch in Al's post above. I seem to recall that it had a faceplate mounted that was maybe three feet in diameter. The owner had it for sale. I'm pretty sure that John Lucas saw it and maybe his memory is better than mine. Maybe if I wasore seriously into pen turning tnen I might consider getting it.

I can see a need for hand turning a column in a restoration project, but all of the new homes around here with columns use the machine made staved kind.
Click to expand...

This is a link to an old post with a picture of the lathe he is referring to:

//www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?10385-Lathe
 
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