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Microwaving question

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Apr 7, 2005
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Location
Saginaw, Michigan
Do you seal a roughed out greenwood bowl by some method before you start microwaving it to dry it?

I have a small low power microwave and I dried a bowl that had been sealed with pentacryl. It dried great but had 2 black stains in it that went completely through the wall of the blank (one dark area was there before I started drying it). The wood was pine. The bowl finish turned OK. I have several more pieces of this wood to rough turn and I'd like to dry at least a couple of them in the microwave. Did I do the first one incorrectly?
(Method was 1 to 2 mins on the only setting the machine has in a loose fitting plastic bag. Let the bowl cool at least a couple of hours between runs in the micro.)

Jim
 
Bill,
In his article Dewayne doesn't say if he specifically wraps the interior of bowls, or just wraps over the whole thing as a single chunk. Maybe doesn't matter. Also does not expand on how to "glue up if needed" any cracks that may occur. Would you please elaborate a bit on these details, based upon your experience. Thanks.
 
Richard,

Pack a bunch of paper towels (8 to 12) all around the bowl and then put it in one of the plastic grocery sacks. I loosely tie the two loops and then just sort of wrap the sack around the bowl. I have found that some very small cracks that show up when the wood is warm will go away as it cools down. CA glue can be used to fix any areas where a crack may be developing. My experience is that cracks are less likely if you resist the temptation to take the bowl out of the sack when it is hot. Also, when colling off, open the sack just a bit to allow some air exchange. The first few cycles, the paper towels will be dripping wet, but leave them on the wood for the prescribed time. That way, the exterior will not be drying out faster than the interior. I save the wet towels and let them dry out for a later cycle and then use fresh dry towels for the next cycle. This is a gentle drying process and is not nearly as drastic as some of the other microwave procedures that I have seen. The amount of moisture collected by the paper towels will gradually become less until you redach the point that very little dampness can be felt.

Bill
 
Bill,
Thanks a bunch. Sounds like, the more gentle the process, the better. Even if it takes a couple or three days (sealed in plastic between sessions), is better than weeks or months when successful. Have a couple small pieces of oak developing small cracks while drying after alcohol soaking and wrapping in paper. I understand that oak is a problem child, but it was worth a try. Have a spare m'wave oven in the barn, and will attempt the process.
 
keep in mind if you run it for too long on high it will begin to smoke and then SWMBO will be peeved. STill trying to get out of doghouse for that one 😀
 
Texian said:
Bill,
Sounds like, the more gentle the process, the better. Even if it takes a couple or three days (sealed in plastic between sessions), is better than weeks or months when successful. Have a couple small pieces of oak developing small cracks while drying after alcohol soaking and wrapping in paper. I understand that oak is a problem child, but it was worth a try. Have a spare m'wave oven in the barn, and will attempt the process.

All drying methods are are based on the same thing, controlling loss from the exterior to a rate which can be replaced from the interior until an equilibrium is reached. Joy of microwaving is that it moves water from the center outward much faster than plain air drying, because even bound molecules escape faster with increased energy. Like all good things, however, it comes with a price tag.

Two large cautions on oak, which, given your location, is likely to be one of the many "red" oak varieties. First, every ray fleck you see is a potential fracture line. It is a structure built to transfer moisture radially more rapidly than simple cell to cell diffusion, and is structurally unsound. If you have a great rate of curvature, such as a small diameter piece or tight curve on a larger, your chances of saving are greatly reduced. Sharp edges are out for the same reason.

Second, it's going to smell terrible. You mentioned the barn. It will develop somewhat the same odor. Don't use any microwave the wife may use in any place she might drop in. Ask the man who once dried elm in the kitchen, and purchased a new micro for the wife.

With the microwave it is actually important to get the piece close to uniform in thickness. You hear it often when applied to air drying, where it applies but little, but in this case a lot of wood around a spot provides insulation which can allow heat to build up and ignite the interior. Dense areas like knots, which are generally drier than the rest of the wood anyway, are another potential trouble source. So calculate your anticipated shrinkage from the tangential/radial tables, and use only a modest fudge factor to determine your wall thickness if you're planning to turn/dry/turn (TDT), so you can dry it rapidly and not ignite. I consider micro drying more suitable to non-TDT pieces, where warp is of no consequence.

Can't say I've ever observed it, but my microwave says not to use color paper towels or brown paper because of the risk of ignition. Might be something to think about. I used vegetable bags where they would fit the pieces. They are micro perforated to preserve high, but not dewpoint high moisture around the vegetables. Plastic with a few larger holes works well. Longer times on lower settings versus high and short for me.

Almost forgot. Do yourself a big favor and spin the daylights out of the piece to get as much unbound moisture as possible out before you begin the process. That way you'll speed things up and minimize evolved water stains.
 
Thanks Gran & Michael,
The spare microwave oven in the barn has been used to dry wood (completely unrelated to woodturning) in the past, so already smells like burnt oak. Ignition temperature is around 400 F.
 
I love the smell of oak in the morning .......

Michael,

As you have probably read, the sense of smell has the ability to evoke very strong responses based on memory among other things. Richard lives in Madisonville, Texas which is just a "few" miles (in Texas terms) from where my parents live in Caldwell and the predominant oak trees there are post oak (a.k.a. cross oak in other parts of the country) and black jack oak, both of which are white oaks. I imagine that you would have to travel a bit further east before getting into the red oaks. What does this have to do with smell, you ask? Really not much, but when I was growing up, I loved the pungent smell of post oak as I was splitting it for the heater and whenever I smell it, memories come flooding back, not that I want to go out and split a cord of post oak right now, thank you. The smell of microwaving it would probably smell good to me. My days of splitting post oak have taught me that it just loves to be split if you hit it right with the axe. Occasionally, we would run into what we called a "rubber tree" -- that would be a post oak that for some reason would cause the axe to bounce back without hardly making a mark on the wood. And no amount of axe wielding could make it split -- even wedges would just get stuck without starting a crack. It was a good way to work up a sweat.

Black Jack is almost impossible to split because of interlocking grain so maybe it would be a better choice for turning -- I have not given it a try.

White oak takes forever to dry, but my experience with oak is that it will stabilize reasonably well if you turn the item to completion in one session and then very quickly apply a good moisture barrier finish (like polyurethane -- I know, ugh, but for large spindles it works well) to slow the rate of moisture loss. Don't turn it when it is too green however as nothing will help then -- I would suggest waiting six months or longer. I also have lost a lot of really good post oak by storing it outdoors after treating the ends with Anchorseal. In the Texas summer heat, the Anchorseal will just soak into the end grain and then the cracking will start. Anybody want some really nice fire wood?

BTW, I turn post oak because it has one of the most beautiful grain patterns of domestic woods in my opinion.

Bill
 
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Bill,
Post and black jack are indeed what we have on the property. My two little oak test bowls have been sitting, paper wrapped, for two weeks since alcohol soak. One has a single crack and the other has two small ones. Applied some CA, and will let them sit a while unwrapped and see what happens. Maybe will turn next one to finished thickness before soak and drying, as the resulting oval shape is kind of interesting.

Finally, finally, got 1.7" of rain yesterday. We've had a total of only about 2" since May 5, 2005, until yesterday. Will have some dead trees, but hope the rain yesterday will save most of them. Will inspect the woods this spring for any walnut trees that didn't survive, and try to save the wood.
 
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