Any one out there interested in making serious money/living from turning? I am willing to pass on my experience in developing my bussiness from a hobby to a serious income ( 30K++ net). I now work at home and get paid to enjoy my hobby doing architectural turning. I only do small jobs not production work so by the time I am comfortable with the job it is over and I start the next one. If you have the equevelent of a single car garage you can do architectural turning. As far as I know I am the only one in the Dallas area that wants the small jobs and the CNC guys send me business. Offered to do an article for AAW but haven't heard back. Post specific questions and I will reply. If there is enough interest I will do a section on my site, www.turningaround.org .
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Making serious money/living from commercial turning
- Thread starter akransom
- Start date
I'm also getting ready to semi retire and would like to turn for profit as well as for fun. I like doing something different when a job is done. And also like you the small jobs have a lot more interest than the big ones. Although I do some custom CNC work it is very specific and has to be custom drawn by me. I think it would be helpful for you to outline some aspects of starting a business like this
ken
ken
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2004
- Messages
- 349
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- 0
- Location
- Rural La Farge, Wisconsin
- Website
- www.token.crwoodturner.com
I'm very interested in how to find such jobs, and also how to price them.
All I need is a lathe big enough to turn a porch column. 😀
All I need is a lathe big enough to turn a porch column. 😀
I have friend up here that payed for his Oneway 2436 that way. He's in Marblehead, MA, which for those of you who don't know, is a relatively high income town with lots and lots of old houses. He would take on one or two small custom jobs a month, turning ballisters, finneals, etc. and cover his lathe payment.
Notably, he did pick up a replicator but spent the bucks on a nice one so that he could do sets.
Dietrich
Notably, he did pick up a replicator but spent the bucks on a nice one so that he could do sets.
Dietrich
I'd love to but
unfortunetly I'm deaf and disabled. While I can put in about 5 hours aday at the lathe, being deaf is making things really impossile. I can't communicate with customers. Can't use a normal phone and face to face is very frustrating to everyone concerned. I have the tools and the experience to do the work. Getting the work is the hard part. Anyone have any ideas?
Spence One very frustrated Turner
unfortunetly I'm deaf and disabled. While I can put in about 5 hours aday at the lathe, being deaf is making things really impossile. I can't communicate with customers. Can't use a normal phone and face to face is very frustrating to everyone concerned. I have the tools and the experience to do the work. Getting the work is the hard part. Anyone have any ideas?
Spence One very frustrated Turner
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2004
- Messages
- 349
- Likes
- 0
- Location
- Rural La Farge, Wisconsin
- Website
- www.token.crwoodturner.com
Hey, Spence--
I can't begin to imagine what it's like to be in your shoes, but you seem to have no problem communicating by the typed word. People say it can't be done, I've said it myself, that a website can't do it all for you without face-to-face interaction but I think it's the way to go in your case. I've gotten a few turning commissions by way of the internet alone so I know it's possible. Put up pics of the work you've done, tell your story, put your best face forward and most of all, have faith in yourself and you'll pull it off. Sorry if I sound like a Dale Carnegie self-improvement course or something, but anyway, the best of luck to you.
I can't begin to imagine what it's like to be in your shoes, but you seem to have no problem communicating by the typed word. People say it can't be done, I've said it myself, that a website can't do it all for you without face-to-face interaction but I think it's the way to go in your case. I've gotten a few turning commissions by way of the internet alone so I know it's possible. Put up pics of the work you've done, tell your story, put your best face forward and most of all, have faith in yourself and you'll pull it off. Sorry if I sound like a Dale Carnegie self-improvement course or something, but anyway, the best of luck to you.
Thanks Ken
Thats what I plan to do this spring, At least thats what I hope anyways. Money as usual is a problem too but slowly, very slowly things are coming together. If nothing else I've learned two things from this ordeal. 1, never give up and 2, gota have patience! One way or another I will get back on my feet. Thanks again for the encouraging ideas.
Spence
Thats what I plan to do this spring, At least thats what I hope anyways. Money as usual is a problem too but slowly, very slowly things are coming together. If nothing else I've learned two things from this ordeal. 1, never give up and 2, gota have patience! One way or another I will get back on my feet. Thanks again for the encouraging ideas.
Spence
Getting started
The greatest advantage I had starting is that I already had the tools and space paid for so I was free of the turn or die pressure. Actually started years in advance getting ready to open a cabinet shop when I retired. I live on 1 1/2 acres in a suburb of Dallas and built the original shop as a 24' by 32' pole barn. Fortunately a friend had started a cabinet shop and through his struggles I learned that retail is a real PITA! I quickly realized that is not the area I wanted to be in.
Start finding customers by going to cabinet shops, restoration shops, historical organizations, a very few small custom homebuilders and wood suppliers you have bought from in the past. Realize that initially it will take at least twice as long as you expect to complete a project. You want small jobs less than $200 because at this time you are building skills and experience and really just trying to break even. You also want jobs that push your skill limit though don't be afraid to tell customer that you are not sure that you can do it and they only pay for your successful completion of the job. Ideally this stage is done while you are still employed, as it will probably last a year. You will know that you have succeeded when your customers begin referring others to you. After 4 years I finally put an add in the yellow pages. At $740 a year it was a gamble that paid for it’s self the first month but don’t do it until you feel that you can handle almost any thing thrown at you. Also contact the other woodturners listed and tell them that you want the small jobs that they don’t want. In Dallas the other two turners listed are CNC shops and they understand that I am not a competitor in their area. They have actually sent me business! As you build your skills you also find out how much time is required. I started and still bid a job based on $25 per hour shop fee plus materials. The time is based on what I think it should take and may not have any relationship to the actual time required especially in the beginning. In the Dallas area shop fees range from $45 to $65 per hour. A normal 8 to 5 job is 2000 hours per year but if you are like me I will spend 10 hours a day and not be as tired as when I worked 8 to 5. With no commuting I can put in a 60-hour week and enjoy every minute. 60 times 50 equals 3000 times 25 equals 75,000 though 40,000 is more realistic as a max. Of course there is still plenty of room to add to your hourly rate and still be below commercial shops.
The greatest advantage I had starting is that I already had the tools and space paid for so I was free of the turn or die pressure. Actually started years in advance getting ready to open a cabinet shop when I retired. I live on 1 1/2 acres in a suburb of Dallas and built the original shop as a 24' by 32' pole barn. Fortunately a friend had started a cabinet shop and through his struggles I learned that retail is a real PITA! I quickly realized that is not the area I wanted to be in.
Start finding customers by going to cabinet shops, restoration shops, historical organizations, a very few small custom homebuilders and wood suppliers you have bought from in the past. Realize that initially it will take at least twice as long as you expect to complete a project. You want small jobs less than $200 because at this time you are building skills and experience and really just trying to break even. You also want jobs that push your skill limit though don't be afraid to tell customer that you are not sure that you can do it and they only pay for your successful completion of the job. Ideally this stage is done while you are still employed, as it will probably last a year. You will know that you have succeeded when your customers begin referring others to you. After 4 years I finally put an add in the yellow pages. At $740 a year it was a gamble that paid for it’s self the first month but don’t do it until you feel that you can handle almost any thing thrown at you. Also contact the other woodturners listed and tell them that you want the small jobs that they don’t want. In Dallas the other two turners listed are CNC shops and they understand that I am not a competitor in their area. They have actually sent me business! As you build your skills you also find out how much time is required. I started and still bid a job based on $25 per hour shop fee plus materials. The time is based on what I think it should take and may not have any relationship to the actual time required especially in the beginning. In the Dallas area shop fees range from $45 to $65 per hour. A normal 8 to 5 job is 2000 hours per year but if you are like me I will spend 10 hours a day and not be as tired as when I worked 8 to 5. With no commuting I can put in a 60-hour week and enjoy every minute. 60 times 50 equals 3000 times 25 equals 75,000 though 40,000 is more realistic as a max. Of course there is still plenty of room to add to your hourly rate and still be below commercial shops.
Hi Spence,
Would you happen to be married? Adult children at home? Someone like this might be able to help with phone contacts.
Beyond that, I would think that you could establish a presence on local renovation websites/bulletin boards to begin building a reputation. Drop in on specialty stores. Email contractors and renovation specialists. Network.
Once you are established as someone who can and will do jobs in a timely, professional, and reliable manner, you should be able to build a client base that will grow itself through referrals.
The only thing is, this is going to take time and a degree of investment. This will include lots of contact time, yellow pages ads, etc. if you want to build your buisness faster.
Dietrich
Would you happen to be married? Adult children at home? Someone like this might be able to help with phone contacts.
Beyond that, I would think that you could establish a presence on local renovation websites/bulletin boards to begin building a reputation. Drop in on specialty stores. Email contractors and renovation specialists. Network.
Once you are established as someone who can and will do jobs in a timely, professional, and reliable manner, you should be able to build a client base that will grow itself through referrals.
The only thing is, this is going to take time and a degree of investment. This will include lots of contact time, yellow pages ads, etc. if you want to build your buisness faster.
Dietrich
Tools
Tools are an obvious necessity and major expense. You don’t have to have the latest and greatest. As a one-man shop you are not going to use them as much as a large commercial shop and starting out with the hobby level tools can make sense and they can be replaced as you wear them out and build your business. Also since I am going under the assumption that space available is a one-car garage they need to be kept to a minimum.
Lathe
I started with a Powermatic 90 and it was great until I had to turn down work because it would only swing 12â€Â. I considered using riser blocks to increase the swing but decided it would cost as much to have them made as a new lathe. My mother has died and I wanted to use part of the inheritance as a constant reminder of her support and encouragement over the years so I committed $10,000 to a lathe. After much research I decided on the Powermatic 3520A. After five years I still think it was the right decision and haven’t found a better lathe for my needs. I made my own bed extension that allows me to swing 10’ between centers and it doesn’t have any problems with that. Also made an outrigger for the banjo so I can do 40†faceplate work. The sliding headstock really shines when doing faceplate work.
Table saw
I still use the Delta Contractors 10†saw I started with though I have added a 52†Powermatic fence. When considering a table saw I think that the fence is the most important part. I looked at the Bessemer and all it’s clones. Price and quality was basically the same though I liked the beefier Powermatic locking assembly. I recently bough a Ryobi 10†sliding table saw at Home Depot for $160 that I set and leave at 45 degrees. The fence is garbage but it’s 3HP direct drive will cut 2.5†oak without any problems. I have it to the right of the Delta and it uses the same fence. Though noisy, with a good fence it would be an acceptable saw.
Planer
I just replace my Delta 12†bench top with a 15†Grizzly. Though the Delta has served well it has some problems with 10’ stock. I gave serious consideration to a 20†planer so I could final surface 8†columns but didn’t want to commit the extra space required. The jury is still out on whether that was the correct decision. I would recommend that you start with at least a 15†planer. I have added a Digi Planer digital readout thickness gauge and at $60 it is well worth the money. It is accurate to three decimal places so if I need a board thickness to match an existing board I measure the thickness with a micrometer and can plane to the exact thickness.
Clamps
I still only have my original twelve 2’ Pony pipe clamps and four 5’ bar clamps. I have added fifty 12†F clamps that I bought on Ebay for $2.50 each including freight and they are the ones I use 90% of the time. Make sure you get the clamps with the lock in the head. Yes the ElCheapo will probably only last ten years but at 10% of the price of the whiz bangers who cares. Don’t get the aluminum clamps!
Welder
Yes a welder is a necessary tool! I have both a 250-amp stick and 120-amp MIG Lincoln welders and they have paid for them selves many times over in making custom tool rests, bed extension for the lathe and jigs needed for special applications. I took a welding class at a local community college for $60. A 250 amp stick welder will handle ½†steel and though it takes more skill I would recommend it over a MIG welder if you only have one welder. I only bought the MIG welder as a consolation prize after my wife spent $1500 at the vet. Not necessary but I wanted it!
Compound miter saw
Almost a necessity. When cutting long stock it makes life much easier. Mine is mounted on the wall with 6†of rollers on one side and 10’ of rollers on the other. I haven’t used the compound feature. The bigger the better. Also used for trimming completed work to final length.
Drill press
I have used an ElCheapo floor model for 25 years and it is still doing an OK job. I also have a $150 Sears bench top which is good for 99% of what I need. I only have a Powermatic 1150 because I got it for an unreal price of $150! It is a fantastic machine but at $2000 it was way down on my list of tools.
Hand drill
Started with the 9 volt Makita. And they lasted 4 years till the batteries died. I now us the Sears 12 volt. I have three, which makes things easier Stay with the cheap ones that come with 2 batteries. Battery replacement is 90% of the cost of a new drill. Get two or three of the same model so the batteries are interchangeable and plan on replacing then every four years.
Tools are an obvious necessity and major expense. You don’t have to have the latest and greatest. As a one-man shop you are not going to use them as much as a large commercial shop and starting out with the hobby level tools can make sense and they can be replaced as you wear them out and build your business. Also since I am going under the assumption that space available is a one-car garage they need to be kept to a minimum.
Lathe
I started with a Powermatic 90 and it was great until I had to turn down work because it would only swing 12â€Â. I considered using riser blocks to increase the swing but decided it would cost as much to have them made as a new lathe. My mother has died and I wanted to use part of the inheritance as a constant reminder of her support and encouragement over the years so I committed $10,000 to a lathe. After much research I decided on the Powermatic 3520A. After five years I still think it was the right decision and haven’t found a better lathe for my needs. I made my own bed extension that allows me to swing 10’ between centers and it doesn’t have any problems with that. Also made an outrigger for the banjo so I can do 40†faceplate work. The sliding headstock really shines when doing faceplate work.
Table saw
I still use the Delta Contractors 10†saw I started with though I have added a 52†Powermatic fence. When considering a table saw I think that the fence is the most important part. I looked at the Bessemer and all it’s clones. Price and quality was basically the same though I liked the beefier Powermatic locking assembly. I recently bough a Ryobi 10†sliding table saw at Home Depot for $160 that I set and leave at 45 degrees. The fence is garbage but it’s 3HP direct drive will cut 2.5†oak without any problems. I have it to the right of the Delta and it uses the same fence. Though noisy, with a good fence it would be an acceptable saw.
Planer
I just replace my Delta 12†bench top with a 15†Grizzly. Though the Delta has served well it has some problems with 10’ stock. I gave serious consideration to a 20†planer so I could final surface 8†columns but didn’t want to commit the extra space required. The jury is still out on whether that was the correct decision. I would recommend that you start with at least a 15†planer. I have added a Digi Planer digital readout thickness gauge and at $60 it is well worth the money. It is accurate to three decimal places so if I need a board thickness to match an existing board I measure the thickness with a micrometer and can plane to the exact thickness.
Clamps
I still only have my original twelve 2’ Pony pipe clamps and four 5’ bar clamps. I have added fifty 12†F clamps that I bought on Ebay for $2.50 each including freight and they are the ones I use 90% of the time. Make sure you get the clamps with the lock in the head. Yes the ElCheapo will probably only last ten years but at 10% of the price of the whiz bangers who cares. Don’t get the aluminum clamps!
Welder
Yes a welder is a necessary tool! I have both a 250-amp stick and 120-amp MIG Lincoln welders and they have paid for them selves many times over in making custom tool rests, bed extension for the lathe and jigs needed for special applications. I took a welding class at a local community college for $60. A 250 amp stick welder will handle ½†steel and though it takes more skill I would recommend it over a MIG welder if you only have one welder. I only bought the MIG welder as a consolation prize after my wife spent $1500 at the vet. Not necessary but I wanted it!
Compound miter saw
Almost a necessity. When cutting long stock it makes life much easier. Mine is mounted on the wall with 6†of rollers on one side and 10’ of rollers on the other. I haven’t used the compound feature. The bigger the better. Also used for trimming completed work to final length.
Drill press
I have used an ElCheapo floor model for 25 years and it is still doing an OK job. I also have a $150 Sears bench top which is good for 99% of what I need. I only have a Powermatic 1150 because I got it for an unreal price of $150! It is a fantastic machine but at $2000 it was way down on my list of tools.
Hand drill
Started with the 9 volt Makita. And they lasted 4 years till the batteries died. I now us the Sears 12 volt. I have three, which makes things easier Stay with the cheap ones that come with 2 batteries. Battery replacement is 90% of the cost of a new drill. Get two or three of the same model so the batteries are interchangeable and plan on replacing then every four years.
I think you forgot band saw in that list. Wonderful to have for cutting templates and for milling rough stock.
Go ahead and spend the money on a decent 14". You'll probably not need more than it's 6" throat and, if you do, risers are available.
Dietrich
Go ahead and spend the money on a decent 14". You'll probably not need more than it's 6" throat and, if you do, risers are available.
Dietrich
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2004
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- 96
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- 0
- Location
- Leopold Victoria Australia
- Website
- www.cwsonline.com.au
About 6 years ago I decided to go full time in production turning after many years of craft turning this was certaily a challenge. I started with a 18' x 12' shed now have a 35' x 24' shed.
I have a home made long bed lathe that can turn 12' between centres and swing 8". Just recently I put a variable speed motor on and this makes life a lot easier.
I also have a DVR lathe for the larger diameter trunings and the Blond has a Vermec variable speed mini lathe for all the small work. It has amazed me how much we actually do on the mini lathe as we have only had it over 12 months and there is not a week goes by where it is used. Prior to this most small jobs were done on the long bed lathe just for convenience.
Our moto is "If it fits on the lathe we will turn it"
The advantage of working from home and being a small shop is we control what comes and goes and as indicated by others there is bigger shops with the CNC machines that do not want to do the small quantity jobs, You have the advantage that you can dictate your price because they are unable to go anywhere else.
Word of mouth will help as people will tell each other where they got there turnings done.
One thing to remember . Learn to turn, Learn to turn very good then learn to turn fast. once you get to the fast stage then you will start earning a decent living. Not that you will be rich but comfortable and with no pressure is what you are after. Do not go from learn to turn to fast as it will not work and your quality will show.
I have a home made long bed lathe that can turn 12' between centres and swing 8". Just recently I put a variable speed motor on and this makes life a lot easier.
I also have a DVR lathe for the larger diameter trunings and the Blond has a Vermec variable speed mini lathe for all the small work. It has amazed me how much we actually do on the mini lathe as we have only had it over 12 months and there is not a week goes by where it is used. Prior to this most small jobs were done on the long bed lathe just for convenience.
Our moto is "If it fits on the lathe we will turn it"
The advantage of working from home and being a small shop is we control what comes and goes and as indicated by others there is bigger shops with the CNC machines that do not want to do the small quantity jobs, You have the advantage that you can dictate your price because they are unable to go anywhere else.
Word of mouth will help as people will tell each other where they got there turnings done.
One thing to remember . Learn to turn, Learn to turn very good then learn to turn fast. once you get to the fast stage then you will start earning a decent living. Not that you will be rich but comfortable and with no pressure is what you are after. Do not go from learn to turn to fast as it will not work and your quality will show.
bandsaw
I place the band saw in the nice to have catagory. I can't remember anytime that it was absolutly necessary to do a commercial job. I have a Luguna 16" that I picked up "used" with the original blade on it for $750. Rember " He who dies with the most used toys wins."
I place the band saw in the nice to have catagory. I can't remember anytime that it was absolutly necessary to do a commercial job. I have a Luguna 16" that I picked up "used" with the original blade on it for $750. Rember " He who dies with the most used toys wins."