Long handled chiesels

[Dennis Derringer]

I'm new to wood turning and purchased the PSI chiesel set. The chiesel's work well, but I'm finding out that a longer handle is required for deeper cuts. So, two questions: Are there long handled chiesel sets that don't require a second mortgage? Or, what is a good source for the right wood to use in making your own?

Thanks!

Dennis

 

[George Van Beynen]

Dennis, I use any dense hardwood I have available for handles, many came from the woodshed. Maple, yellow birch, cherry. A handle with a replaceable tip works well for changing from one to another and ease of sharpening with the tool shaft only.

 

[MichaelMouse]

What is it that holds you so far from the work? As my tagline says, you want the rest near - as near as possible - for best control, and that means there must be some corridor for you to cut along. In my experience, the long handles are something that limits me, because they have clearance problems. With a rest within an inch of the work and a sixteen-inch total length, you still have a 15:1 mechanical advantage. That's enough to make meaningful-length moves at the far end that translate into fine adjustments at the business end.

Curious what job you're doing. As George says, you can always make handles, but unless you're over 40 and trying to cut without corrective lenses, I'd change my tactics to stay close. Forearm's length is good, because you can lock your elbows against your body making an entry cut, then loosen and turn as you shave your way down.

 

[Steve Worcester]

You can always take the tools you have out of the handles and make new ones, but without more of an understanding as to how and what the problem is that necessitates longer handles, I don't know if that will solve your problem.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I'm new to wood turning and purchased the PSI chiesel set. The chiesel's work well, but I'm finding out that a longer handle is required for deeper cuts. So, two questions: Are there long handled chiesel sets that don't require a second mortgage? Or, what is a good source for the right wood to use in making your own?

Thanks!

Dennis

By deeper cuts, are you talking about turning the interior of deep hollow vessels (such as tall vases, etc.) using hollowing scraper type tools where it is necessary to extend the cutting tip way past the toolrest?

It would help if you tell us which tools you are having problems with. Generally speaking, if a tool comes mounted to a handle, it is the right size for the tool. Many hollowing tools come unmounted. Making a handle is easy and there are only two rules:

1. The wood should be hard and clear. Oak, ash, maple, walnut, and numerous other hardwoods meet this criterion.
2. Drill a hole in the end the same size as the tool shank about three inches deep. Put some epoxy in the hole and insert the shank about 2 1/2 to 3 inches. For decoration, you can use a metal ferrule on the end of the handle or wrap nylon fishing twine and cover it with epoxy.

I have made a few handles. They are easy and fun to make. They can be as plain or decorative as you desire, but functionality is more important than decoration. The ones that I have made are roughly the same length as the ones that I have purchased.

Handles are fairly easy to remove from tools. While holding the tool by the metal shank with the cutting tip up and the handle down, tap on the wooden handle with a hammer to drive it off. Wear heavy duty gloves and wrap the cutting edge with duct tape. Be very careful to keep your hand well away from the sharp edge because a sharp tool can slice your hand wide open. If you have a vice with wooden jaws, that might be a better option to hold the tool shank. When installing the tool onto a new handle, it will normally slide on without too much effort, but if more force is needed, grasp the handle near the butt end so that it is oriented vertically with the cutting end down and the butt of the handle pointed up. Give it a few good whacks on the butt end with a dead blow hammer and that should take care of seating the tool shank. If you aim is not very good and you think that you might hit your hand with the hammer, get someone else to hold the tool while you hit it.

 

[Dean Center]

Dennis, if you bought the regular sized chisels at Penn State, you should have enough length to do just about anything a new turner can do safely. If you bought the mini or midi sized chisels, then maybe you don't. If you need more length than standard sized tools, you should probably be working with a mentor (or have a full suit of armor).
Dean Center

 

[Dennis Derringer]

(First, I want to acknowledge how humbling it is to have fellow craftsman take the time to share their knowledge. Thank you!)

My problem is that I was trying to hollow out a somewhat small Vase and I couldn't seem to get the proper leverage to keep the chisel in place. It's now moved to being a mug and will probably wind up being a shot glass....

I don't think I have the right tool for hollowing deep turns such as a vase or tall glass. The opening is probaly 4" and I'm trying to hollow out to a depth of about 6".

I just got my first lathe about a month ago; I'm 56 years old and looking to develop my skills as best I can.

Thank you, to all, for your comments and suggestions.

Dennis

 

[n7bsn]

Dennis, if you are reaching 4 inches past the tool rest, with a gouge, you are probably asking for trouble. if you were using say a 3/4 inch (monster) bowl gouge, it might be safe. But I'm betting you are not.

There are tool rests that project into the bowl/vessel. There are also tools better suited to hollowing a deep vessel.

it all depends on the toy budget

TTFN
Ralph (roughly the same age, but turning a few years longer)

 

[Bill Boehme]

(First, I want to acknowledge how humbling it is to have fellow craftsman take the time to share their knowledge. Thank you!)

My problem is that I was trying to hollow out a somewhat small Vase and I couldn't seem to get the proper leverage to keep the chisel in place. It's now moved to being a mug and will probably wind up being a shot glass....

I don't think I have the right tool for hollowing deep turns such as a vase or tall glass. The opening is probaly 4" and I'm trying to hollow out to a depth of about 6".

I just got my first lathe about a month ago; I'm 56 years old and looking to develop my skills as best I can.

Thank you, to all, for your comments and suggestions.

Dennis

What tool were you using?

It is advisable when turning things like vases, goblets, mugs, boxes, and shot glasses to orient the wood so that it is an end grain turning as opposed to bowl turning which is normally cross grain.

There are various tools for hollowing depending upon what you are doing. For the most part the interior is turned with a scraping cut with the tip at or slightly above centerline while the back of the tool handle is elevated slightly above that. You will get into trouble if you angle the tool upwards or cut below centerline.

It is natural for beginning turners to want to jump into making the more exciting things like bowls and hollowforms right off the bat -- I know that is what I wanted to do. However, you might not be quite ready for that until developing some basic turning skills. It might not be great fun, but lots of spindle turning practice making beads, coves, v cuts and shoulders will teach you a lot about tool control. Having a skilled instructor will also do wonders in getting you jump started.

I am looking at a small vase in my bookcase that I made a while back approximately the same size as the one you were working on -- this one is a natural edge vase that is about 3" diameter at the top and about 7" deep. I used a 3/8" spindle gouge with very long swept back wings to do the interior. I could also have used a number of different small scrapers, but the result would not have been quite as clean.

 

[MichaelMouse]

My problem is that I was trying to hollow out a somewhat small Vase and I couldn't seem to get the proper leverage to keep the chisel in place. It's now moved to being a mug and will probably wind up being a shot glass....

I don't think I have the right tool for hollowing deep turns such as a vase or tall glass. The opening is probaly 4" and I'm trying to hollow out to a depth of about 6".

I'm sure you will not be placing the handle on the rest, so the limit now becomes the amount of steel available at the end less the portion placed on the toolrest. Most of the time that's 5 inch or so maximum. Lots of people cheat and bore a hole using either their drillpress or a tail-mounted chuck and an appropriate bit. That way they take care of the toughest part of hollowing right away - the part near (and too often crossing) the center bottom. Slipping across the bottom will twist even a purpose-made scraping tool with a very long piece of steel out of your hand. When one side's pushed down and the other's pushing up, Popeye with his forearms couldn't hold the torque. The big boys tend to have outrigger handles or armbraces for that reason. http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/jamieson-hollowing.html Takes care of the cross-bottom and undercut torque problems by design. They're also longer, to win back some mechanical advantage.

So keep things more open at the top and maybe a bit more shallow for the time being. You'll be able to watch and feel what's going on as the tool works the wood that way. You'll probably discover a few angles you can use later in blind work. Cut the wood as it wishes to be cut is your objective. You'll know when the resistance ceases and the shavings still flow.

 

[Dennis Derringer]

Bill, you're right about wanting to jump in; probably a little over my head. We had a branch from a Maple tree fall down and I couldn't resist the urge to try a vase; I was turning it end grain. I'll probably use the rest to turn some longer handles

My chiesels are 16" long with a 6" metal chiesel and they are probably more well suited to larger open turned bowls where the rest can moved to the interior more easliy.

My wife got me a 3 DVD set by Richard Raffan a couple of years ago and I've been looking at those quite a bit. I will also be searching for a local mentor to learn from; the nearest AAW association is about 80 miles away, but I'll probably take the time to attend a meeting or two.

Ralph, I'm one that doesn't hesitate to get the right tools for the job and I'm sure I'll expand my "toy box" as I get more experience. I'm on about a 6 to 7 year plan for retirement and will take that time to develop my skills.

Thanks again to everyone for your comments and direction.

Dennis

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill, you're right about wanting to jump in; probably a little over my head. We had a branch from a Maple tree fall down and I couldn't resist the urge to try a vase; I was turning it end grain. I'll probably use the rest to turn some longer handles

My chiesels are 16" long with a 6" metal chiesel and they are probably more well suited to larger open turned bowls where the rest can moved to the interior more easliy.

My wife got me a 3 DVD set by Richard Raffan a couple of years ago and I've been looking at those quite a bit. I will also be searching for a local mentor to learn from; the nearest AAW association is about 80 miles away, but I'll probably take the time to attend a meeting or two.

Ralph, I'm one that doesn't hesitate to get the right tools for the job and I'm sure I'll expand my "toy box" as I get more experience. I'm on about a 6 to 7 year plan for retirement and will take that time to develop my skills.

Thanks again to everyone for your comments and direction.

Dennis

You haven't mentioned what tool you are using on this project. Is it a scraper, bowl gouge, spindle gouge, ring tool, hollowing scraper, roughing gouge, skew chisel or what?

 

[Nate Hawkes]

I'm not much on the brand name pushing that goes with a lot of hobbies and tools, but I have 8 or 10 bowl gouges, all of them various powder metal alloy configurations; 2030, 2060, Pro-PM, and A11/10V CPM. There is only one tool manufacturer that makes an extended reach bowl gouge; Doug Thompson makes a tool, the "Bill Grumbine" signature gouge, which lets you turn quite a ways off the toolrest to get into deep pieces, AND lets you use all of the flute to the very end without being unbalanced. After using one gouge all the way to the end of the flute I bought a few more.

As far as scrapers go, Thompson introduced a "monster scraper" that is 12" long. I would have purchased this if I hadn't bought a tool marketed through Woodcraft, their "superlong bowl scraper" which is 16" long without the handle. Its a good tool, but I like to sharpen as little as possible; a few extra $ is worth the time savings to me.

 

[Dennis Derringer]

Bill,

I was using a round-nose scraper for the most part. This seemed to be the best choice since I had less chance of catching the edge of a bowl chiesel so far in to the opening. I believe I've learned my lesson about over-extending my reach with the chiesels I have and will (hopefully) restrict my experimentation to match the intended use of the tool I'm using.

Thanks,

Dennis

 

[Dennis Derringer]

Nate,

Thanks for the information about the bowl scrapers. I should probably take the advice given thus far and stick with the basics. I've been successful in turning a top out of cedar for my grand-son and have a piece of maple that I'm going to make a bat for him as well.

Dennis

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill,

I was using a round-nose scraper for the most part. This seemed to be the best choice since I had less chance of catching the edge of a bowl chiesel so far in to the opening. I believe I've learned my lesson about over-extending my reach with the chiesels I have and will (hopefully) restrict my experimentation to match the intended use of the tool I'm using.

Thanks,

Dennis

The kind of scraper that you were using is primarily for very light use in the interior of bowls to smooth out the humps and valleys that are typically left after the bowl gouge in the hands of the average turner has done its work. There are some turners like Stu Batty who can get a perfectly smooth and continuous curve from rim to bottom and have no need for scrapers. For the rest of us -- that is why scrapers and sandpaper exist.

For hollowforms, there are special scrapers with small replaceable tips of hardened steel or carbide. They re heavy duty with large shanks to take the overhung load. They generally come with extra long handles or may be unhandled.

 

[Dennis Derringer]

This is what started as a taller vase.... kept nicking the rim (twice) and so it wound up looking more like a mug. I think my wife is going to use it as decoration with a fat candle in it .

Anyway, it gave me the experience I needed with some green maple.

 

[Leo Pedersen]

Hi Dennis,
You have received a lot of very good info here and I also have picked up a few good pointers. It always seems that I learn something from here on the forums and also magazines. I believe you stated you are afar from any turning clubs. Lots can be learned there in a good club. Try while at the one you might attend to see if there might be a mentor living near you. In addition to learning, you can car pool. LOL

Leo in AZ.

 

[john lucas]

If your going to turn deep vessels and like using scrapers instead of a gouge then I would look at buying or building a captured bar system. Eliminates catches, lets you go much deeper than you can with hand held tools, and if you attach a lazer then you can check the wall thickness as well.
https://www.lylejamieson.com/tools/index.asp
Lyle has instructions on his site on how to build one. I've built 2 now and they work fine.

 

[Jim Keenan]

Dennis,
To answer your original question, go by your home center and pick up some replacement handles for shovels (I find the post hole digger handles work well). They are already (almost) round and are made from good hardwood. Use ferrules made from copper pipe and you should be good to go.

 

[Dennis Derringer]

John, I've seen a video on the Lyle Jamieson tool and know that it will be something I get waaaay down the road

Leo, it's on my to-do list to get to one of the clubs and to see if I can find a local mentor.

Jim, excellent idea about the replacement handles! Thanks!

Dennis Derringer