LOML says to focus on selling turnings.....

[Jim Stoppleworth]

We have a storefront, our main business is embroidery. I'm using a small area to display peppermills, bottle stoppers, and pens. I've sold a few dozen bottle stoppers, a couple of larger peppermills and a few pens, so far. Pens are the least of my interest.
This will never be a full time endeavor, (at least I have no present plans for it to be that.) but I would like to sell enough to pay for some more toys,(errr necessary tools.) Besides LOML says house is getting too full of bowls, etc.

In your opinions what are some other things that are good sellers? LOML also says she would like to do a couple of craft shows with the turnings. What are the things that sell there to cover the costs of the booth, etc.?

 

[jimwtolly]

What sells, if any woodturner knew that, that would be all that was made.
On any given day or show you Just never know, I have "drug" stuff to shows for years that never sold, then several will sell at the next show.
All I can say is GOOD luck!

 

[S. Clark]

It really seems to depend on the show venue. At craft and gift fairs, you need to know who the customer is going to be. I find that middle American’s shopping for gifts rarely desire spending more than $20 - $60. My experience has been that they will pickup and examine a nice display bowl, notice the price as being beyond their hopeful expectation, comment on how beautiful the piece is, put it down and move on. They seem to be looking for useful items more than display stuff at these shows too. I’m told that at the upped American art show’s, you get more interest in display pieces.

Your interest isn’t pens but I’ve done quite well with these. Mine are higher end though; wholesale prices ranging from $25 - $45. I don’t worry about the people looking for a BIC replacement. I’ve found people willing to spend $45 for a nice fountain pen but they won’t think of spending that for a nice display bowl.

- Scott

 

[hairfolicle2]

My wife and I have had moderate success with pens and personal items like compacs (the mirrored ones) atomizers potpouri bowls and such. We attended two craft shows near home last fall and covered our gate with no problem.

 

[MichaelMouse]

My younger brother sent my oldest son a real Mont Blanc set for his college graduation. My son asked why anyone would even bother with a fountain pen. I told him in a world where watches aren't for timekeeping, nor pens for balancing your checkbook, like his uncle's, it's a great gift. There are places, here being one, where some truly talented penmakers have barely covered their entry and motel stay, while I'm selling salad bowls, spoons and turned mushrooms for secretaries so fast that my daughter threatens to never assist me again unless I fold the tax into the price so she won't have to make change.

Best advice is to have the impulse items. Impulse items sell for an hour or two's wages. Adjust your stock accordingly, but put two or three eyegrabbers out there to get 'em to your booth. Cheap stuff goes low on the shelves, good stuff at eye level. As you learn your venues, you'll adjust.

Oh yes, I got my son a B&D 18 volt set with drill, saw and flashlight. It sees a lot of use, while the pen is still in his desk drawer.

 

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Stoppy

You already have the advantage of storefront space, and while it is not really free, you have the perfect venue to display your work. I would make a bunch of a bunch of things - small bunches, but enough to make it look like there are choices. Things like bud vases and weed pots are often popular and do not consume a lot of money for parts. Potpourri bowls can go and sometimes not, and they have more overhead. The same goes for pens and bottle stoppers. Add in a few bowls and see what goes. If you like making that item, make more. Don't make more of the things you don't like making or don't sell well.

It often helps to have some more expensive items you don't really expect to sell on display. They help drive the sales of the less expensive items because people like to buy something and will often go for the low to middle of the price range. If you are selling stuff with a top end of $40, they will buy things for $20. If you have a top end of $100, you will likely sell more $40 items. At least, this has been my experience in the past, and from time to time you will sell the most expensive pieces you have.

I would not get into the craft show circuit right now. I know a bunch of people from all sorts of backgrounds - jewelers, potters, glass blowers, etc, and none of them are real happy with the revenues coming from the show circuit. As I wrote above, you already have the space, and you have traffic, so I would say make the best use of that as a test market without having to go to the trouble of entering shows, traveling, building a booth, etc. If the store thing works out, then think more about doing shows.

Bill

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

Shirt Pocket

My best retail outlet of pens is my shirt pocket. People notice the 'Rollerball pen of the day', comment, I switch from business to hobby talk. If they ask if I sell them, I say sure once in awhile, then the how much comes out, I say $ x, they say boy I really like that, then if I am trying to sell them something and the commission is going to big and looks likely I just give them the pen if they are try to sell me something I say $x-5 or 10 and sell it right there on the spot. Oh I forgot to tell you I already added the 5 or 10 to what I want before I offer $x. Mixes the day job and the hobby. That method sells a couple of pens a month and is good for the day job relationships.

I also have a lawyer that buys my pens. He uses them and when I client says he likes it he just gives it to them and takes a new one from stock. He buys them 10 at a time for $40 to $50 each, no box. He had been doing this with Mont Blancs so I have cut his cost by about 40%. He does high end real estate so it he has no concept of the value of a dollar. I delivered the first order in February and he called for 10 more last week. He maybe my retirement plan.

 

[TurningDog]

fairs are hit or miss until start to figure things out for yourself in ways that can never be taught to you. I say keep putting things in the storefront as you can but I would advise you to stay away from online selling especially ebay. I used to make 5 times the money selling pen blanks as I could selling pens.

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

Hi Stoppy

I would not get into the craft show circuit right now. I know a bunch of people from all sorts of backgrounds - jewelers, potters, glass blowers, etc, and none of them are real happy with the revenues coming from the show circuit. As I wrote above, you already have the space, and you have traffic, so I would say make the best use of that as a test market without having to go to the trouble of entering shows, traveling, building a booth, etc. If the store thing works out, then think more about doing shows.

Bill

Bill, LOML is interested in doing a couple of XMAS bazaars, one the church school she taught at for 25 years and the other at another school. They are a week apart in November/December. I have no intention or inclination to go on the road. We have a street art fair here in 3 weeks for 2 days on our street in front of store. I will have a display in front of our store during that time. (Actually kinda thought about bringing the lathe in to turn tops or bottle stoppers during the fair, still might.) Re your paragraph above the committee for our art fair says the number of vendors is way down this year.

Actually I'm finding I really like doing bowls, plates, and shallow dishes.
Same with weed pots. Will be trying hollow forms very shortly. Like so many others never thought I'd become "addicted". Loving wife who gave me the lathe as a birthday present says she's created a monster. She says it with a smile.

Stoppy

 

[David Somers]

I am a new turner and have not even thought of selling pieces yet. Though eventually I do want to.

I have had several turners sit me down though and advise me that when I am ready to actually charge for a bowl or other turned item that I first take a bit of time and look at what is out there and what it is going for. Then price mine in such a way as to not seriously undercut the going rate. Because of my inexperience and lack of a "name" I might be at the lower end of the range of prices, but they suggested not dropping below that. They all said they would rather I give away bowls for the remainder of my "career" rather than market bowls at significantly less than the going rate because of the effect that has on the folks who are trying to make a living through turning. It has taken turners a long time to get prices to where they are able to earn a living on their work. A very understandable idea. I have seen this sentiment expressed in several turning books as well.

On another thought, I was just talking with a local business person about sales (they are not a turner and have a small retail sales shop) and the advise they had for me was to be very careful about what I give away or price low once I do start selling. Their analogy was that if I thought of my finished work as having come in the back door of my business as a wholesale purchase on my part (in this case my wholesale price would be equivalent to my time making the product, the cost of replacing my raw materials, power, supplies, brick and mortar costs, etc) and then thought of a full sale price as going out the front door, then I don't want my products going out the backdoor. If they go out the backdoor then I am undercutting my ability to make a profit from the work. He said it takes relatively little "backdoor" sales to have a serious affect on a small business. He also said it is very difficult to resist "backdoor" sales since we all have friends and aquaintances and enjoy discounting stuff or giving it away. He emphasized again how little of this it actually takes to have a serious effect on a small business.

Hope this helps!!!

Dave

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

Donation do hurt

David is right about give aways. I know an hour ago I said I gave away a few pens but that was for the day job customers. I am currently a Featured Artist (code for luckiest guy in town) at a very popular and trendy wine bar in a tuorist town near my home. Since appearing there all my old community service contacts have been hitting me up for donations for thier charity auctions etc. A birdseye platter I donated to the Catholic high school sold for $210 at auction when I only asked $160 at the wine bar. That said I sold my first $300 piece this week at the wine bar. Luckiest guy in town is right. This is only supposed to be a 6 month term and they will rotate me out but the owner is already talking about keeping me on for another term. My donations have attracted people to the bar because I note in my write up about the piece that I am featured there. Its working but I have donated about as much as I have sold. That said I didn't have to make cash donations to these charities which I would gotten guilted into otherwise. I don't know what is right but the last few months I have been having fun with the marketing part of the hobby.
Frank

 

[Bill Grumbine]

I have had several turners sit me down though and advise me that when I am ready to actually charge for a bowl or other turned item that I first take a bit of time and look at what is out there and what it is going for. Then price mine in such a way as to not seriously undercut the going rate.

Hi Dave

This statement, and I have seen many people make it in the past, boils down to protectionism. People are free to charge anything they want for the things they make, and consideration of what someone else is charging for the things they make has absolutely nothing to do with it. There are economic factors involved, but that has nothing to do with a "going rate". You cannot buy pen kits for $6.00, blanks for $5.00, spend an hour turning each one, and then charge $12.00. It might work for a while, but natural forces will force you out or up in price.

A wooden turned bowl has a certain value to it. That value is the combination of the wood itself, its beauty or attractiveness, the form it has been given by the turner, and its utility (even if it is art, the art is its utility). Beyond a certain point - price point that is - the buyer is paying for the name that is written on the bottom. Variance in quality of the wood, form and finish account for some, but not nearly all of the price. The name on the bottom is the all important thing when the price exceeds a certain amount, and that is what makes the protectionism argument invalid to my way of thinking.

I think that a person making things should charge whatever they want for the things they make. The buyer who buys it is making a decision as to whether or not it is worth what they are going to pay for it. If I am at a show selling salad bowls for $100 and my friend Mike is at the same show selling his bowls for $25.00, I really don't think his prices are going to hurt my business. Lots of people talk about educating the buyer, and while there is some truth to that, it has really come to mean talking the buyer out of his or her money.

When people see something for sale, they are going to make a decision as to whether or not they want it. Then they are going to make a decision as to whether or not it is worth the asking price. If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then they will buy it. If they decide to buy Mike's $25.00 bowl, that does not mean that they would have purchased my $100.00 bowl if Mike had not been at the show. It means that they are willing to buy a $25.00 bowl.

I have a student who is turning into a friend, and he is selling his bowls at a rent-a-shelf store for $20 - $50. Most of his sales are at the lower end of the range. I am regularly selling bowls for $300 and more. You might probably guess that there is somewhat of a difference in the quality of our bowls and you would be right, but even more important is that people are beginning to buy my bowls because my name is on the bottom. I am still getting used to that, but that is what they tell me. The people who are buying his bowls are probably not going to buy one of mine, and the reverse is most likely true. That is not to say that he will not be selling $300 bowls in the future, but if he is, it will be because of the name on the bottom. Either that, or by the time he is getting those prices, inflation will have become so bad that $300 then will be worth $30 now.

I realize this might stir things up a bit, but since I hardly ever do that, I might as well do it now. 😀

Bill

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

Best advice is to have the impulse items. Impulse items sell for an hour or two's wages. Adjust your stock accordingly, but put two or three eyegrabbers out there to get 'em to your booth. Cheap stuff goes low on the shelves, good stuff at eye level. As you learn your venues, you'll adjust.

To my way of thinking impluse items would be such as:
candle holders, tops, bottle stoppers, perfume atomizers, Holiday ornaments,
right, wrong?

Stoppy

 

[David Somers]

Bill!

This is a great topic to stir the pot with! Not a problem!

In some ways, this is protectionism. And I have no qualms about the idea that someone can charge whatever they want. I certainly didn't take that advise as a gentle warning not to undecut the competition. Instead I heard some fairly sound business advise.

Lets see if I can describe this better.

I took those turners to mean that if I am selling in a particular venue I should look at what prices are like in that venue and price myself accordingly. More specifically, I shouldn't severely undercut the venue, and definately shouldn't undercut myself. I should account realistically for my time in making the bowl as well as the cost of materials; the cost of replacing my wood stocks...consummables like sandpaper and finishes...electricity....ammortization of my lathe and tools, etc. If I consider those basic factors and make sure I am covering them with a fair profit for my efforts, and then additionally factor in the relative worth of my work in that market (its quality, the value placed on it in the local market being a newbie, etc) then I should end up coming out within range of what is being charged in that venue anway. If I am waaaaay below that then I am missing something. Either I am undervaluing myself, or not accounting for the costs of making the bowl, or leaving out profit, etc. If that is the case then from a business sense I am not doing well, and I am not helping the other turners trying to run businesses either. I am creating an unrealistic price point that their work will be compared with. Protectionism??? Yeeeeeeeah...to some extent, but it is pretty common sense business practice as well. The context of those talks was business related. What should I charge for my work?

Certainly at my skill level and experience, I would be at the low end of most price ranges, take a craft fair booth for example. In that venue it might be that Bill's booth would have work in the $300+ range while my work might be under $100 for a comparable item. But the $100 I charged should have covered my expenses and accounted for some profit beyond that, and perhaps intrinsic worth beyond even that (for example, the fact that a simple Koa bowl in Hawaii goes for wayyyyy more than it should no matter who makes them for example), while Bill's bowls would have that price built into it plus a lot more since he is a "name" in the turning world and commands a bigger price because of that.

If I priced my stuff to the point where I am just covering my expenses or losing money then I am stepping seriously on the suggestion those turners made to me. At that point I would be seriously undercutting that market, and not doing either them or myself any good. That is how I interpreted their advice. Don't undervalue myself or my work. If I am going to sell, sell it to make at least a modest profit.

I do think many hobbyists tend to severely underprice when they start because they figure....I am just a hobbiest....my time is not worth that much, for some reason the investment I have in tools somehow does not need to be covered, nor my electric bill or materials or consumables, etc. Then we end up selling things for far less than they should be sold for if we had a bit more sense of self worth.

Does that make more sense? I think it is actually pretty much in line with what you were referring to. I assume that if your student were selling next to you at the Fair that you would not want him or her to be selling bowls for prices that were really low and didn't somewhat reflect their time and effort and quality or the relative worth of a bowl to that market, nor would you want to see them sell a beginner quality bowl for the same $$ amount that you are commanding as a more experienced and well known turner. The student's prices would certainly be at the low end of the scale, but they would be within a reasonable range for the overall circumstances.

OK....fire back Bill and everyone else! I am really interested to hear folks thoughts on this!

Dave

 

[David Somers]

To my way of thinking impluse items would be such as:
candle holders, tops, bottle stoppers, perfume atomizers, Holiday ornaments,
right, wrong?

Stoppy

Stoppy, I think you are partially right. To some degree the size of the item counts, but to some extent so does the prices the buyer sees around those items.

For example. Joe Turner has a booth at the State Craft Fair. He has stuff ranging from $5 and $10 ornaments and bottle stoppers at his low end, up to $40 salad bowls. The salad bowls are nice, well made, fairly pretty wood. Not great but definately something you could put on your table and feel good about. The booths around Joe are similar in their price points, although the goods may be different; blown glass animals, hand made beads and necklaces, hand made carving boards, etc.

On the other side of the Fair Fred Woodwacker's booth begins with $40 basic salad bowls and tops out with some really fine $500 figured maple hollow vessels. Fred is surrounded with booths having similar price points. Different goods, but similar price range...$40 to $500.

My guess is that people will look to Freds $40 bowls as "impulse" purchases in the same way they would look to Joe's ornaments and bottle stoppers as "impulse" purchases. Fred's $40 bowls seem like a bargain compared to his beautiful $500 pieces, and you are buying stuff from the same man who made those gorgeous yet unattainable $500 hollow maple vessels. Same thinking goes on at Joes booth. The lovely little bottlestoppers and ornaments are a great bargain compared to those more pricey salad bowls. Both vendors will have defined "impulse buy" by the range of products they offer.

Of course, you can only take this so far. I believe Bill's definition of "Impulse" buy as being a few hours wages is pretty close, but I also think it can be massaged a bit by the context the items are placed in, within the limits of the economic scale of your buyers of course.

Lastly, I think the larger context of your display can affect you as well. If Fred were to have his booth placed in the booths in the same class as Joe's it would affect Fred's sales. In comparison to everything within easy range around him even Fred's low end stuff would seem way to high. A similar thing might happen to Joe if he found himself surrounded by Fred and his higher end neighbors. Joe's stuff might seem too inexpensive for the setting and be ignored as being cheap. The larger context of your display matters.

Bill? Everyone? Thoughts???

Dave

 

[Joe Fisher]

I'm just starting to learn this stuff myself. Here's my experience so far:

I've been turning for a year or so, and amassed the requisite house full of goodies. I have been approached about a holiday craft fair, and about putting my items in an established craft shop. Both at no cost to me, so why not, right?

The holiday craft fair was just what I expected: full of knick-knacks, and buyers who were looking for $5-$20 items. I ended up only selling a few ornaments in about a month. They were priced $20-$35, depending on the complexity. None of my bowls or boxes (priced $30-$75) sold.

My wares have been in the craft shop for about a month now, and nothing has sold. The proprietor tells me people love the work, but aren't generally looking to spend that kind of money. She asked me if I could make a bunch of things in the $5-$20 range. I'm going to start doing bottle stoppers to have some things in the lower price range.

I really enjoy the boxes and bowls, tho, so I think it'll just be a matter of finding the right venue for them. Either that or making a DVD 😀

Just teasing, Bill.

-Joe

 

[MichaelMouse]

To my way of thinking impluse items would be such as:
candle holders, tops, bottle stoppers, perfume atomizers, Holiday ornaments,
right, wrong?

Sure. Things nobody really needs, but are appealing enough and obtainable enough to coax the cash. You have to choose your own pricing method. I don't use the OPEC model others have mentioned, preferring to pay myself a reasonable hourly rate, varying the goods level and sort rather than the price itself to suit the clientele. If it takes a couple hours average to make a popcorn bowl, I add five bucks for supplies to the hourly rate and sell there. Same size and species in figured stock always sells for more. What you use for a rarity factor is what gets you in the area of what the traffic will bear.

Same piece can be a bargain in one show, and a thinker in another. I look a bargain in "art" shows, and a gouger in a "craft" show, so tend to avoid the latter.

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

What sells, if any woodturner knew that, that would be all that was made.
On any given day or show you Just never know, I have "drug" stuff to shows for years that never sold, then several will sell at the next show.
All I can say is GOOD luck!

Actually when I posted this I was more interested in things to display in our store. The show part was added as an after thought.

This has been an extremely interesting thread on the philosophical side of pricing. In the world of trophies and other non essentials the "normal" standard is cost times three or four for retail price. In the world of embroidery we "try" to keystone which is cost times two plus the embroidery. Seldom(read never) can you get any quantity order doing that anymore. Almost all quantity orders have moved offshore because of pricing and the reduction of garment decorating to a commodity.

In our particular shop we deal in small orders and a lot of onsies and twosies and had been able to hold our pricing fairly well until the recent explosion in the number of home embroidery machines. Now our market is under extreme pressure of becoming a commodity also because most home embroiderers don't figure in overhead costs in their pricing structure.

Sorry about the rant about the pricing in our embroidery world. Here's a specific pricing question I'd like opinions on:
What price should a no name turner put on a small undecorated top?
(my plan is to have a bowl full of these sitting on the counter.)

Stoppy

 

[rich stewart]

Well, I made a big boo-boo and took some of my stuff to a flea market at the local firehouse. I would say stay well clear of flea markets. Everybody is looking to spend 50 cents there. And they aren't afraid to tell you. I had people looking at a bowl that I had out for 12 bucks trying to get it for 2 bucks. These were my first turned items so they weren't GREAT but they were better than 2 bucks. But, back to the original thread here, the things that people seemed to be most interested in were the weed pots, boxes, vase looking things. Several people were interested in the larger tray type items. Like you would put behind your door to throw your change and cell phone and keys in when you walk in the house. Lids seemed to draw interest. Lidded bowls, boxes. Hope this helps you some.

 

[David Somers]

Here's a specific pricing question I'd like opinions on:
What price should a no name turner put on a small undecorated top?
(my plan is to have a bowl full of these sitting on the counter.)

Stoppy

Stoppy, have never paid attention to the pricing of these, but having watched someone who was good with a skew mount 2 feet worth of a pine 2x2 in a 4 jaw chuck (no tailstock) first round the stock, and then knock out really nice little tops with 3 to 4 cuts per finished top (literally), I would say no more than 2 bucks? Probably considerably less if you sold them as is without coloring them or other finish. Depends on whether you are selling them for giggles or want to make a few cents on them.

Dave

 

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Dave

I put my answers to some of your comments inbetween your comments to try and make it a little easier to read - assuming anyone else besides us wants to plow through it!

I took those turners to mean that if I am selling in a particular venue I should look at what prices are like in that venue and price myself accordingly. More specifically, I shouldn't severely undercut the venue, and definately shouldn't undercut myself. I should account realistically for my time in making the bowl as well as the cost of materials; the cost of replacing my wood stocks...consummables like sandpaper and finishes...electricity....ammortization of my lathe and tools, etc. If I consider those basic factors and make sure I am covering them with a fair profit for my efforts, and then additionally factor in the relative worth of my work in that market (its quality, the value placed on it in the local market being a newbie, etc) then I should end up coming out within range of what is being charged in that venue anway. If I am waaaaay below that then I am missing something. Either I am undervaluing myself, or not accounting for the costs of making the bowl, or leaving out profit, etc. If that is the case then from a business sense I am not doing well, and I am not helping the other turners trying to run businesses either. I am creating an unrealistic price point that their work will be compared with. Protectionism??? Yeeeeeeeah...to some extent, but it is pretty common sense business practice as well. The context of those talks was business related. What should I charge for my work?

This makes good business sense. Locally and in other venues I have seen the same words spoken or written with the attitude of "don't undercut me or my sales".

There is good business sense, but there is also the skill and execution of the piece as well. A good form is going to command a better price than a poor form. Poor finishing will detract in value, although I have seen some big names on poorly finished pieces. I guess marketing can really play a part there.

I agree to a certain extent on the common venue common price thing, but I have been places where there have been several turners. In one show three of us are used to getting about the same prices for our work from a dollar point of view, but we all do substantially different work. In another, there were several turners of varying ability and the prices reflected that.

If I priced my stuff to the point where I am just covering my expenses or losing money then I am stepping seriously on the suggestion those turners made to me. At that point I would be seriously undercutting that market, and not doing either them or myself any good. That is how I interpreted their advice. Don't undervalue myself or my work. If I am going to sell, sell it to make at least a modest profit.

This is very true, and the business world has a way of taking care of people who follow the practice of selling for less than it costs to make things. 😀

I do think many hobbyists tend to severely underprice when they start because they figure....I am just a hobbiest....my time is not worth that much, for some reason the investment I have in tools somehow does not need to be covered, nor my electric bill or materials or consumables, etc. Then we end up selling things for far less than they should be sold for if we had a bit more sense of self worth.

Probably the biggest group of offenders here are the retired men who do what I call the painted pig and cow shows. Rough cut pieces out of lumberyard pine stained brown and sold for pretty much the cost of materials. Sometimes the workmanship is better, and a lot of them have very talented wives when it comes to painting. I usually don't see a lot of this in the turning world, although it is out there to some extent.

Does that make more sense? I think it is actually pretty much in line with what you were referring to. I assume that if your student were selling next to you at the Fair that you would not want him or her to be selling bowls for prices that were really low and didn't somewhat reflect their time and effort and quality or the relative worth of a bowl to that market, nor would you want to see them sell a beginner quality bowl for the same $$ amount that you are commanding as a more experienced and well known turner. The student's prices would certainly be at the low end of the scale, but they would be within a reasonable range for the overall circumstances.

Again I agree to a certain extent. There is the asking price and the getting price. I have met a number of people who are asking a certain price. Often that price wows others who are extremely impressed. I always remind them that while that may be the asking price, it may not be the getting price. I knew a guy once who started making really weird stuff and putting astronomical price tags on it. None of it sold, mainly because no one had ever heard of him and not because the stuff was weird. There is enough weird stuff being sold out there to know that taste and money do not go hand in hand all the time. But that is subjective of me, and I should probably not say it. But I will anyway. 😛 I do think we are thinking along the same lines.

Bill

 

[Kefferpl]

Craft shows & prices

Bill & Dave
You both are right. But were does that put the hobby turner who just goes to the local Church & fire co. sale. You can only get what the customer will pay. To get into a show where you can get the better price you need to be "Juired"- to get to the Qualitiy to be Juired- You need to turn and practice -and turn And practice. To avoid Swmbo -asking you to leave the house - you go to the Local church & fire co. sale and sell for the best price you can get. The better stuff you made.
This may sound like big trouble but should the AAW have a "Juired " process - that includes the priceing agreement - ie - your work deemed up to some grade- you display AAW logo- and you price by guideline 😕

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

Stoppy, have never paid attention to the pricing of these, but having watched someone who was good with a skew mount 2 feet worth of a pine 2x2 in a 4 jaw chuck (no tailstock) first round the stock, and then knock out really nice little tops with 3 to 4 cuts per finished top (literally), I would say no more than 2 bucks? Probably considerably less if you sold them as is without coloring them or other finish. Depends on whether you are selling them for giggles or want to make a few cents on them.

Dave

Dave,
Probably I was thinking along the lines of "giggles", although I hadn't looked at it in that manner(thanks for jogging my thinking process.) I saw Nick Cook do as you describe at a turners show, and Alan Lacer also does it in his video. What I had thought of was a bowl of those at say $.94 cents plus tax along side of a bowl of decorated tops priced to earn a few cents. Envisioning them to be little "advertising pieces".

Skew practice time!!!

Jim

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

Bill & Dave
You both are right. But were does that put the hobby turner who just goes to the local Church & fire co. sale. You can only get what the customer will pay. To get into a show where you can get the better price you need to be "Juired"- to get to the Qualitiy to be Juired- You need to turn and practice -and turn And practice. To avoid Swmbo -asking you to leave the house - you go to the Local church & fire co. sale and sell for the best price you can get. The better stuff you made.
This may sound like big trouble but should the AAW have a "Juired " process - that includes the priceing agreement - ie - your work deemed up to some grade- you display AAW logo- and you price by guideline 😕

Paul,
Where? Locked against the rail behind the eight ball. In a utopian world we could get our goods juried and rated for pricing by our peers but I think with time a person builds a name just by doing. I'm VERY definitely a NO name turner just starting on this road. Slowly friends, neighbors, relatives and customers at my "day job" are learning I turn and have a very few nice things
to sell. As I get better it is my hope that the "word of mouth" advertising will grow as will my sales.
I have an advantage because I have a store front to work out of that doesn't require an additional outlay of cash. But if I was just working out of my home and workshop I think I would follow the same process.

Here's my take on the local Church and Fire department sales if I did them.
I'd take a pail full of undecorated tops, another smaller pail full of decorated tops so that I could have something to sell to the "bargain shopper" who frequents this venue. I'd also tote some of my better items to the function to have something for the person who is willing to pay more and may just come to the show out of a sense of duty or civic involvement. As Jim Tolly said in an earlier post he's brought items to shows for years that didn't sell and then all of a sudden they sell. Who knows(besides the Shadow) what lurks in the mind of the buyer?

Jim

 

[LANKFORD]

My turnings along with my oil paintings, ship model kit design work are all a business. Since I am retired on a fairly good income, Uncle Sam takes nearly 1/3 of everything I have in profit from the hobby stuff even though I do claim expenses and business use of the home. Also, as a business you have to pay the social security tax. Just remember the federal taxes when you sell stuff. You might want to somehow incorporate it in the price of the stuff you sell.

 

[David Somers]

Bill & Dave
You both are right. But were does that put the hobby turner who just goes to the local Church & fire co. sale. You can only get what the customer will pay. To get into a show where you can get the better price you need to be "Juired"- to get to the Qualitiy to be Juired- You need to turn and practice -and turn And practice. To avoid Swmbo -asking you to leave the house - you go to the Local church & fire co. sale and sell for the best price you can get. The better stuff you made.
This may sound like big trouble but should the AAW have a "Juired " process - that includes the priceing agreement - ie - your work deemed up to some grade- you display AAW logo- and you price by guideline 😕

I may be wrong, but I can't picture anyone who would quibble with lower prices at the type of sale you are describing. Of course, you should probably not offer your spiffy highly figured mable burl hollow form bowl at a Church sale price. But you might offer some nice basic salad bowls for a price that fits those circumstances. And hopefully you can price those with a bit of profit, or you are at least knowingly pricing them below profit for a reason. (supporting the church or fire hall for example).

But if everything you do is below your profit level then you may need to sit down and rethink what you are doing and what you are offering and where you are offering it.

On your comment about having problems because you can't get into juried shows in order to boost your standing with higher end galleries and shops so you can get better prices for your work....

I have feeling AAW wouldn't want to get into that kind of activity, although maybe at a symposium a juried show could be arranged? We certainly all would not make the cut, but it would be another opportunity to try. The more chances the you, the more work you do with an eye towards a juried show, the more likely you will improve and make the cut!

Here's another thought for you....I assume you have a turners club handy? Perhaps the club could do its own juried shows several times a year. Club a bit small for that? Perhaps they could combine with another art league or woodworking club in the area so there is enough material for a show. You would need to have fairly high standards if the shows are to mean anything....but at least this would give turners access to more shows.

And....at the same time, perhaps the show could have a section for those pieces that did not make the cut? A chance to show off your work even if you were not pulled into the jury process.

And....if you have gone that far.....how about the better artists and turners in your area doing a post show critique of work? That way the folks who did not make the cut can get some valuable help from the folks who are well established and probably have training and tons of experience to share?

We just went through this with the Big Island Woodturners Show a few months ago. At the end of the show a well established and art trained turner and a well established and art trained custom furniture maker, both with lots of show and gallery experience in addition to their art training, did a wonderful critique of peoples work, from the high end to the low end. It was very congenial, very friendly, but it was also a serious critique. No fluf. And it was very valuable....or at least it was to my little newbie mind!! That would make a show like that really helpful to folks who are not making it past the panels.

Hope this helps!!! What other ideas do folks have?

Dave

 

[Gretch Flo]

craft report

I am in the middle of a 2 day craft day show at Michigan State university-non juried. On the other side of the street from campus there is a juried East Lansing show held simultaneously. The brochure brags about 60, 000 people come between this one and the December one.
The crowd seems less this year, people walking around without bags of merchandise, and yesterday was my worst selling day in 3 years (dec 2005 was my best), and the weather was sunny and 66-a nice change. Talked with 3 other wood turning types, and heard from one across the street(juried) and they were all doing terribly. 😱 Hope today goes better. Spending 10 hours getting ready for the show, spending 10-12 hr/day there, getting a friend to help me, just doesn't seem to be worth the effort. But as another turner said, I have to get rid of some of my stuff so I can turn more wood items!!! I had some nice chats with the woodturners, though-nice people. Didn't ask if they were cat owners!! 😀 Gretch

 

[Martin Braun]

Makes me wonder if the gas prices, etc. are taking the spare cash out of people's wallets lately?

 

[MichaelMouse]

Makes me wonder if the gas prices, etc. are taking the spare cash out of people's wallets lately?

I'm willing to bet not many of the attendees walked to the venue. If there's no other attraction, it's pretty clear that they came to shop for craft stuff, not attend the WWF show inside the arena, as well.

Some days are simply better than others for certain items, which is why you carry some of everything with you. It's even possible that bringing more of the items you sold out on day one won't work on day two, as well. If they're walking past, eyes ahead, they came to get a (fill in you choice) rather than to shop. Only thing you can do short of hiring a Barker is to have a few of those hook pieces out front, and hope that the price on them doesn't scare them out.

As to having a bad day, Gretch, I never knew anyone who had a good one if you ask them at a show. You shouldn't gloat, after all. Sometimes it is difficult, as you chat with a fellow seller, to obscure the obvious as your spouse keeps packaging things on the side, but you still commiserate, not gloat.

 

[quartlow]

Well even though I've been turning for about 6 years and selling for 5.5 Im still a rookie.

The one thing I have learned you have to have a wide price range. the first couple shows I didn't sell squat. I hd bowls in the range of $20 to $100.

After talking to a fellow turner at the third id show he felt my prices wheren't high enough. While my stuff was no where near the quality of his stuff in the $100 to $500 range. He felt I was selling myself short. while headmitted my stuff wasn't as nice as his he still felt I was doing great work for the amount of time I had been turning.

He went over the prices with me and we adjusted everything up. I figured what could it hurt. We ended up in the $60 to $200 range. I though the was nuts. The next day was my best ever.

lesson learned, you can price it too cheap. Now I have multiple price sheets. After setting up I cruise the show if its a new one and decide for myself what price ranges I can be in. Pick that price sheet and away we go.

I've sold stuff that I never thought would sell. Simply due tthe price. usually items I would't mind keeping for myself. I usually price them high enough that people look at me like I'm nuts.

An example is, I had a cherry goblet that was about 6 inches tall. Got it thin enough that when I weighed it on a digital scale it weighed just 1/2 an ounce. I had it priced at $350 and toted it around for about two years. Well darned if a lady wasn't admiring it one day and asked the price. She never batted an eyelash, whipped out the cash and went on her merry way.

The other thing I've had great luck with was the trusty turned mushroom.
But the most I ever sold was when I took a friends mini lathe to show and turned them right there in the booth. Folks just loved it and it seemed that while a lot of folks where just watching all the extra traffic seemed to attract more traffic. I sold enough of them the first day of the show I actually had to trim my sisters cherry tree so I had stock to turn the next 2 days.

 

[WODAD]

You're lucky to have your own store front, I have my work in 4 different galleries and do a cpouple of juried art festivals. The mix that seems to work for me is 4 to 1, that being four under $75 to 1 above. It's also a tough challenge to price your work, my wife keeps telling me I giving it away, so I let her price it now! Also the comment above about display versus functional, with my work they are both, they may have a void or lots of holes but they can be handled, filled with candy or what ever. I've turned a few "artsy" super thin natural edge pieces, ended up giving most of them away as there was absolutely no interest in them! But I'm in the midwest not the east or west coast. Don't make it a job, turn what ever you feel like turning!

Frank D.

 

[Gretch Flo]

As to having a bad day, Gretch, I never knew anyone who had a good one if you ask them at a show. You shouldn't gloat, after all. Sometimes it is difficult, as you chat with a fellow seller, to obscure the obvious as your spouse keeps packaging things on the side, but you still commiserate, not gloat.

Michael-you don't know me!!! You ask me a question. I give a straight answer. I am known for getting to the point, quickly. I do not stretch the truth, and only occasionally does discretion stop me from telling it "like it is",-some interpret (especially students and young people) this as intimidation. Like Thoreau? "Know thyself, be thyself" Gretch

 

[David]

craft shows and selling

Me and the wife both turn and carve. We have done shows for years about 25 shows per year last year we cut back to 12 this year we will do two or three. Last weekend we attended a show and talked to the friends we had there that had set up. There were five wood turners at the show thats way too many wood turners for a show of about a hundred booths. Two had sold nothing, one had sold a $20 bird house, the other two just didnt look happy so we just didn't ask.
We found the promoters of the shows have increased the fee for the show untill it just cost more than it is worth and every town, organization, you name it needs funds so lets put on a craftshow, bazar, fair and the public is getting tired of the same old thing.
Also lots of craft shows are going to buy sell and you just can not compete with China on price.
If you are going to do shows you have to be different, you have to have your own design, and style.
If you do excellent turning and finish and your form is good your items will look just like the other turners what me and the wife call book turnings (looks just like a picture from a book or a catalog we have looked at) you will probably sell enough to break even maby not.
To sell enough to make it profitable you have to be the new different thing and don't do the same thing next year.
We always change completely what we do, never use patterns for our carvings on our bowls, never make two alike. Our motto is if you want a set of anything we are not good enough to make two alike.
Right now I really can not advise anyone to get too deeply into craft shows.
Five years ago our stuff sold from $12 dollars to our highest of $1600 dollars. We would some times sell 100 of the cheaper items and fifteen to twenty of the 25 to 40 dollar and a couple of the 150 to 400 items.
Now total sales at most shows is 500 to 1000 take out booth fees, gas,motels,food and the cost of equipment and material and you should have gone fishing.

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

David,
I have no intention nor interest of getting involved with craft shows. My wife is going to do 2 Xmas bazaars here in town because she has had long term other connections to them. I completely understand the problems involved,
and at my age don't need the aggravation. I'll sell what I sell in my storefront and if I grow the sales fantastic, and if I don't it won't cripple my livelihood. I'll just be disappointed.

For someone considering craft shows the info you posted should be quite helpful. Thanks for posting it.

Stoppy

 

[David]

Something else about shows

We only do juried shows, shows that have kid games and rides, bands, live entertainment, car shows, you name it draw a lot of people that just bring their kids and expect the kids and them to be entertained. Sorry but we really like to sell some stuff too. I enjoy meeting the people and some times it leads to soem great wood. Four years ago it was a red oak burl that weighed 4,000 lbs still have lots. Last year it was 30 American chestnut trees that had died from the blight in the past four or five years. Still experimenting with drying it. I give the money from the sale of item made from it to the American Chestnur Socity. If you have the time try some shows but don't expect to get rich. David

 

[dkulze]

Been out of town for a week so jumping into this thread kinda late but gotta throw in my $2 worth (inflation).

I sell at 3 fair venues a year. Two are state fairs and one is an "artist's festival". At the two fairs, I show as part of my turning club and, at the festival, I show with 3 friends.

First off, at all three venues, no booth fee is paid, no percentage of sales is taken by the venue, and the only expense is supplies. The magic word that accomplishes this is "demonstrator". At all venues we have lathes set up and are turning while folks are walking by. You would not believe how many folks this pulls to the booth and how many sales it facilitates. At the festival, we actually angered a number of other artists because we constantly had 5-10 folks at our booth and most others rarely had more than 1 or 2 (also, we weren't "artists" in their views). Several, who had been coming to this venue for many years and paying approx $250 for a booth, threatened to drop out the next year if we came. Needless to say, the fair officials invited us, gave us 2 booth spaces, and told the other folks that they would miss them.

At this venue, as it was an "artist" venue, it was quite evident that pricing made sales. In particular, if something was priced too low it didn't sell. My guess is that it took a particular price point ($75 or so for a medium small vase or bowl) before it registered as "art" and became worth buying. Almost no sales were made below the $50 point.

At the other two venues, however, almost no sales are made above the $100 mark. These are large fairs with midways and folks simply aren't looking for "art". I've watched folks complain about the $50 price tag on highly crafted, large bowls and vases. At these venues, however, folks are quite willing to spend $2-10. My big sales were in $2 tops. I would mount up a piece of wood, round it, and begin calling out to folks walking past. I'd challenge them to a $2 "bet". I'd bet I could turn a functional and attractive top in less than 1 minute. If I did, they bought it for $2. If I messed up or took too long, they got it for free. I'd give away about every 5th top but most folks were sufficiently impressed to pay me for a second one. Made about $200 in 2 days.

So, in short, befriend fair officials and art festival administrators and offer to "demo" turning at their venue (let them offer the free booth), don't underprice yourself cause folks care what you think your work is worth, and make your basic income from small items and showing off when you're at town/county/state fair venues.

Most of all, have fun.

Dietrich

 

[David]

Demo's at shows

My insurance will not cover me and the wife if we demo at shows, as all of us realize woodturning is a hazard prone hobby. If you do be sure the public is protected from flying chips and there is no way they can get to the lathe,
children and sharp chisels also don't mix.
If you do demo's check with your insurance before. We would like to demo and teach but the risk is just to great. We get a lot of request for lessons and would like to do it but bad experence in the past we thought we had coverage but the insurance co thought other wise>