Loan a lathe program

[Emiliano Achaval]

We were not getting as much use as we wanted out of the the lathe that was given to the club by the AAW.
Natalie and Sebastian Ryhre, 20 and 14 years old respectively, came to the Stuart Batty demo and join the club. We were looking for the right opportunity, and they were the first to benefit from our "Loan a lathe" program. Today I received an email from the young turner:
Thank you so much for letting me come to your studio and opening my eyes to the craft. I’ve been turning nonstop with the lathe you were so kind as to loan me. I was also wondering when the next meeting is. Really looking forward to working with you and getting better at turning!
Thanks,
Sebastian
I believe we have made a lasting impression on these 2 young turners. Their father didnt want to buy a lathe without the kids first trying to do something. I will attach some pictures, showing them with the lathe and pictures of their work.

 

[Owen Lowe]

Awesome idea, Emiliano.

What are the parameters of the program? Do borrowers get X-hours of hands-on instruction before taking it; do they have it for a specified time period; do they get accessories or tooling with the loan; do they accept responsibility for loss or damage; do they accept all liability for its use?

Don’t get me wrong with the questions above — I think it's a great idea — but am curious how these types of
questions have been addressed.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Awesome idea, Emiliano.

What are the parameters of the program? Do borrowers get X-hours of hands-on instruction before taking it; do they have it for a specified time period; do they get accessories or tooling with the loan; do they accept responsibility for loss or damage; do they accept all liability for its use?

Don’t get me wrong with the questions above — I think it's a great idea — but am curious how these types of
questions have been addressed.

Owen, you have some very valid questions. I'm glad you have ask them. This is something new for us. I did offer young Seb hands on classes. He spent part of the day with me today. I had 2 students. I started Seb with a Jimmy Clewes Mate tool, roughing a small Primavera blank. Half way thru he tell me he wanted to use a gouge. LOL The AAW lathe came with everything, a nice set of basic tools, a chuck, a nice Robust tool rest, we loaned him everything needed to go home and start turning. The club has done well financially, if anything needs fixing, we can afford it. Liability wise, good question... The entire family was here, we told them he could not use the lathe till he got a Uvex shield and a dust mask. AAW insurance doesn't work in Hawaii. All club meetings are in my shop, under my homeowners insurance. When the family took the lathe, they assumed responsibility, knowing it is something that can hurt you. Club members are encouraged to nominate anyone for the program. Write us an email so we have a record, let us know who, why, where. We have not set a time limit. Perhaps we should or maybe they can have it till another worthy candidate comes along. Would like to hear from someone with some legal expertise. Do we need to have some kind of liability waiver for this program? Seb is coming back this week for another class, got some pictures of him today...

 

[Mark Wollschlager]

Just for informations sake, I would look at agreements used by tool rental companies.
Not saying your club should use contracts, but just to see how other entities handle loaning, renting, borrowing tools and equipment.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

How did the AAW give you the lathe? Was it thru the Grant Program? i can see some great possibilities in the program and maybe link in opportunities to buy used lathes. We have seen two PM 3520 in this area for from 1500 to 2500 recently and the club has a Sorby for sale.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Owen, you have some very valid questions. I'm glad you have ask them. This is something new for us. I did offer young Seb hands on classes. He spent part of the day with me today. I had 2 students. I started Seb with a Jimmy Clewes Mate tool, roughing a small Primavera blank. Half way thru he tell me he wanted to use a gouge. LOL The AAW lathe came with everything, a nice set of basic tools, a chuck, a nice Robust tool rest, we loaned him everything needed to go home and start turning. The club has done well financially, if anything needs fixing, we can afford it. Liability wise, good question... The entire family was here, we told them he could not use the lathe till he got a Uvex shield and a dust mask. AAW insurance doesn't work in Hawaii. All club meetings are in my shop, under my homeowners insurance. When the family took the lathe, they assumed responsibility, knowing it is something that can hurt you. Club members are encouraged to nominate anyone for the program. Write us an email so we have a record, let us know who, why, where. We have not set a time limit. Perhaps we should or maybe they can have it till another worthy candidate comes along. Would like to hear from someone with some legal expertise. Do we need to have some kind of liability waiver for this program? Seb is coming back this week for another class, got some pictures of him today...

If he did hurt himself, I could see it coming back on you guys as a lawsuit . You need a contract that waves your club of such liability. But I have heard that during a recent lawsuit a parent can not wave a child’s rights and the child can’t sign a contract. So it is a legal gray area I would not want to be in without some huge insurance.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

How did the AAW give you the lathe? Was it thru the Grant Program? i can see some great possibilities in the program and maybe link in opportunities to buy used lathes. We have seen two PM 3520 in this area for from 1500 to 2500 recently and the club has a Sorby for sale.

Yes. it is a AAW grant lathe. Terry Scott mentioned that in New Zealand they have grant opportunities, I can see our club helping a young turner like Sebastian someday purchasing his first lathe. A matching grant...

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

If he did hurt himself, I could see it coming back on you guys as a lawsuit . You need a contract that waves your club of such liability. But I have heard that during a recent lawsuit a parent can not wave a child’s rights and the child can’t sign a contract. So it is a legal gray area I would not want to be in without some huge insurance.

We will have to get more advice on this tough issue. Thanks for the input Glenn. Maybe you can draw a standard waiver for clubs doing this...

 

[Bill Boehme]

The laws vary from state to state, but in Texas you never give up your right to sue regardless of what a contract says. The wording can still be found in contracts, but that's all that it is ... just words ... meant to mislead.

If you're going to loan a lathe and tools, loan them to a parent for a specific length of time such as a birthday or Christmas. Include some conditions such as attending club meetings and taking good care of the lathe and tools. Maybe even require milestones such as turning certain items (pen, candlestick, wand, top, threaded box, Chinese nested spheres (just a thought).

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

The laws vary from state to state, but in Texas you never give up your right to sue regardless of what a contract says. The wording can still be found in contracts, but that's all that it is ... just words ... meant to mislead.

If you're going to loan a lathe and tools, loan them to a parent for a specific length of time such as a birthday or Christmas. Include some conditions such as attending club meetings and taking good care of the lathe and tools. Maybe even require milestones such as turning certain items (pen, candlestick, wand, top, threaded box, Chinese nested spheres (just a thought).

Good suggestions Bill. For now, the kid surprised all of us! He has turned a lot of things. The dad told us he's willing to buy a lathe. One problem we have here, we do not have a Woodcraft, we have one in Oahu. Buying a lathe adds about $1100 in shipping from the USA, that's for a Robust AB. Used ones are to be found once in a while.. Due to the Jones Act, it's cheaper to get one shipped from Australia, Vicmarc, Stubby... I have not mentioned, Sebastian and his family are from England. When they introduced themselves at the club meeting, I looked at Stuart, I then asked them are you guys from the same Island? LOL Not sure if I mentioned here or the wow, the kid is partly home schooled, the mom asked if she can drop him off at the shop, for lessons and or just hang out... Looking forward to see his growth as a turner. I like the idea of giving him some challenges, give him the wood, tell him, make a candle holder , bring it next time... I'm hoping he can get some of his friends into turning...

 

[Bill Boehme]

I had to look it up, the Jones Act, officially known as the Merchant Marine Act of 1920, is the last remaining remnant of the Prohibition Era. Maybe if made more sense a century ago, but there is no rational reason for it now. Maybe it's the reason why some merchants don't ship to Alaska or Hawaii.

Speaking of that if you are still interested in getting the 3M vest, I can buy one and then send it to you in a flat rate box.

 

[hockenbery]

Not sure if I mentioned here or the wow, the kid is partly home schooled, the mom asked if she can drop him off at the shop, for lessons and or just hang out..

When Sherry and I were teaching the kids class at Maryland Hall for the Creative Arts in Annapolis.
We had a lot of home schooled kids. Although the county had closed all the shops in the public schools the home school requirements still included an industrial arts requirements. The home schoolers had a news letter and one of the parents listed our class.

 

[Perry Hilbert]

Re liability. Despite the best efforts of we attorneys to obsfucate the facts and language, there is usually some loophole of some kind. Here in PA, we have a goofy law that horse owners post. It basically says horses are dangerous, easily spooked and sometimes just outright mean animals and you might get hurt on these premises. And that keeps the adults from suing when they have done stupid things around horses But no amount of fences, signs, moats and guard patrols will keep a person from being sued if a kid does something stupid around the horse..

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I had to look it up, the Jones Act, officially known as the Merchant Marine Act of 1920, is the last remaining remnant of the Prohibition Era. Maybe if made more sense a century ago, but there is no rational reason for it now. Maybe it's the reason why some merchants don't ship to Alaska or Hawaii.

Speaking of that if you are still interested in getting the 3M vest, I can buy one and then send it to you in a flat rate box.

Thank you Bill. I got a message from Ebay, the price of the vest went down. Let me check, I would like to buy it...

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I had to look it up, the Jones Act, officially known as the Merchant Marine Act of 1920, is the last remaining remnant of the Prohibition Era. Maybe if made more sense a century ago, but there is no rational reason for it now. Maybe it's the reason why some merchants don't ship to Alaska or Hawaii.

Speaking of that if you are still interested in getting the 3M vest, I can buy one and then send it to you in a flat rate box.

There is basically a monopoly on the shipping. The unions fight all attempts to open up the commerce, they control the harbors, all mainland and inter island shipping. We had a great inter island ferry service, used it a few times, you could just hop on it with your vehicle and go to Oahu. The Sierra Club sued the State of Hawaii. They won, long story, we do not have a "Super Ferry" anymore, we are worst than a third world country....

 

[Bill Boehme]

Do like the native Hawaiians did ... hop in your boat and paddle to the other island.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

@Emiliano Achaval when you got the lathe did AAW send it or just send you the money based on what you wrote up?

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

@Emiliano Achaval when you got the lathe did AAW send it or just send you the money based on what you wrote up?

Sorry for the late response, I’m on vacation , I’m at the Grand American Trapshooting Championships in Illinois. The AAW sent us the midi lathe with a freight forwarder...