Liming Wax questions

[Finn Posner]

I was given some Russian Olive which on first appearance seemed like nice wood to turn. After a rough out and drying and now returning I am finding that it is quite soft and has very open pores. Since it has these big pores I thought I would try some liming wax (black in color) as an enhancement. It seems to have worked well however I'm wondering what to use, if any, on a final finish. I'm concerned that something like wipe on poly will disolve the wax.

Does anyone have any experience with liming wax and if so what can you tell me?

Thanks - Finn

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have a little experience with liming wax, but I always assumed that white was the only color available since it is typically used to create a pickled finish. The way that I have used it with ring porous wood such as ash is to first dye the wood black and then apply clear gloss spray lacquer. The lacquer must be applied so that it gives a smooth level finish because it can't be sanded or buffed out. Next, the liming wax is applied to fill the pores. I have also used Behlen's Pickling Stain and white acrylic artist's paint. Finally, a topcoat of clear gloss lacquer is applied to protect the finish.

 

[Mark Mandell]

3 easy steps for liming ( white or other).

1. Seal your wood with several coats of either dewaxed shellac (preferably ultra pale), or lacquer.
2. Apply the pore filler and then rub off the excess with a course cloth or burlap moving across the grain (same as pore-filling in a piano finish routine)
3. Reseal the surface with the dewaxed shellac to prevent the colored filler from being rubbed out of the pore pits during use. Use dewaxed shellac in the final seal because if you wish to take your finish further, the old rule of "anything sticks to shellac" will apply.

BTW: Not recommended for treenware (salad bowls, etm.) as a film finish will fail and peel and the piece will be a mess; display items only.

PS: Whose product are you using? Agree w/ Bill, liming wax is always while (it's lime after all). Pore fillers, however, come in a number of colors and black.

 

[Bill Boehme]

BTW,, if you will Google the topic (try something like, "how to apply liming wax"), you will find some tutorials including a video by Record Power which seems to be pretty good. It is not exactly the way that I have done it, but I may give it a try. I'm not too keen on their brass brushing the wood -- I think that sanding might be better -- and one should never blend red and green dyes because the result is dark gray.

I wouldn't consider coloring a beautiful wood like Russian Olive, nor using a black grain filler. A better way to fill the grain is to apply a shellac friction finish with the lathe running at high speed. As the shellac starts to dry it will fill the pores and it will give the wood a more "natural" appearance compared to using a colored grain filler.

 

[Betty Scarpino]

Liming wax is white, however, coloring can be added to it to achieve pretty much any color.

Experiment on a scrap of wood to figure out what type of finish will work the best over the applied wax. You don't even have ot use olive wood for this, ash or oak would work just as well. I suggest letting the liming wax "dry" for awhile before applying a finish over it.


Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner

 

[Gretch Flo]

5 Russian olive, one ash

Last week I made 5 russian olive small bowls and one ash-4 are natural edge. These are quick pics I took yesterday after this thread was started. One is of the 5 bowls, one is the side view of russian olive. It can occasionally have thin black lines in it (spalting???) Russian olive is so beautiful. I did toy with the idea of liming. I didn't like what it did to Honey locust, but did to black walnut. So I didn't on the RO. . These bowls are in the drying phase and not finished. The small bowl in the middle is ash. and as mentioned in Odie's thread I don't really like ash for whatever mental reason I have. I used a black wax was on it so didn't mind "maiming" it . The last picture is a side view, and I like the bowl better than not waxed. Sorry-no pre picture.
Mark Baker , editor of Woodturning (brit journal) wrote an article on dying and liming, and I followed his instructions.
After complete drying and sanding to 400- (600 and above the wax may not penetrate the softer annular rings) I waxed it, let dry for a few minutes, and then used Deft Danish oil, and it "cleans" up the wax color excessive color in between and may show the contrast better. Betty suggested waiting a "while". I haven't let it dry as she suggested but may try. It may not clean it up as well. Sorry as I preview the post, they aren't in the right place and dragging didn't work, Gretch

 

[Finn Posner]

3 easy steps for liming ( white or other).

1. Seal your wood with several coats of either dewaxed shellac (preferably ultra pale), or lacquer.
2. Apply the pore filler and then rub off the excess with a course cloth or burlap moving across the grain (same as pore-filling in a piano finish routine)
3. Reseal the surface with the dewaxed shellac to prevent the colored filler from being rubbed out of the pore pits during use. Use dewaxed shellac in the final seal because if you wish to take your finish further, the old rule of "anything sticks to shellac" will apply.

BTW: Not recommended for treenware (salad bowls, etm.) as a film finish will fail and peel and the piece will be a mess; display items only.

PS: Whose product are you using? Agree w/ Bill, liming wax is always while (it's lime after all). Pore fillers, however, come in a number of colors and black.

Mark - I'm using Liberon Black Patinating Wax from Craft Supplies.

 

[Finn Posner]

BTW,, if you will Google the topic (try something like, "how to apply liming wax"), you will find some tutorials including a video by Record Power which seems to be pretty good. It is not exactly the way that I have done it, but I may give it a try. I'm not too keen on their brass brushing the wood -- I think that sanding might be better -- and one should never blend red and green dyes because the result is dark gray.

I wouldn't consider coloring a beautiful wood like Russian Olive, nor using a black grain filler. A better way to fill the grain is to apply a shellac friction finish with the lathe running at high speed. As the shellac starts to dry it will fill the pores and it will give the wood a more "natural" appearance compared to using a colored grain filler.

Bill - I'd never turned olive so I wasn't sure what to expect and these particular pieces seem to be quite dark (except for the small area of heartwood). Since the piece I'm working on is the smallest and "my test piece" and I found the sanded vessel quite porous I thought what the heck.

 

[Finn Posner]

Thanks to all the relies and helpful hints. I'm attaching some shots of the piece I've been talking about and a piece of raw material "yet to be discovered".

 

[Steve Worcester]

I wonder if the term "liming" has become more like coloring now a days.
With Olive I would just flood it with %50/50 lacquer/thinner to seal it. The problem over time is it is a very oily wood and a film finish may peel.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Mark - I'm using Liberon Black Patinating Wax from Craft Supplies.

Patination sounds like the right term for coloring the wood with dark waxes. Also, waxes applied to bare wood will also do more than just fill large open pores in the wood. The "liming" effect that I like probably isn't exactly a real liming look since I only fill the large pores of ring porous wood with the wax and wipe away the remainder.

Bill - I'd never turned olive so I wasn't sure what to expect and these particular pieces seem to be quite dark (except for the small area of heartwood). Since the piece I'm working on is the smallest and "my test piece" and I found the sanded vessel quite porous I thought what the heck.

I agree. The way to discover new things is to experiment and think outside the bowl.

Thanks to all the relies and helpful hints. I'm attaching some shots of the piece I've been talking about and a piece of raw material "yet to be discovered".

Outstanding work on some beautiful wood.

 

[Betty Scarpino]

Betty suggested waiting a "while". I haven't let it dry as she suggested but may try. It may not clean it up as well. Gretch

Gretch, I don't let the wax dry before wiping the excess off--that would allow for easy cleanup. What I meant by saying wait a while, is to wait a few days after the surface is ready for finishing, then apply a finish.


Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner

 

[gary rock]

When I plan on using Liming wax on a piece, the first thing after sanding it down to 400 is to saturate the piece with a real heavy coat of natural Danish Oil. Several days later after wiping the excess oil off that the piece has rejected, I wipe on a coat of Liming wax and let it dry for 5 minutes. I use gun cleaning patches to remove the excess wax. Usually I lay out a bunch of patches to use on the piece. Then I dip a patch in a small dish of Danish Oil and rub a spot on the piece. Next pick up a paper towel to wipe the area that I just did. Grab a fresh patch, dip it in the oil then rub a small area, wipe the area with dry part of the paper towel. Repeat these steps until the whole piece is done. Grab a fresh paper towel and wipe the piece again. Be sure to let the patches and paper towels dry completely before disposing of them. Usually I let the piece dry for several weeks before staring the process of putting on the final finish, then that will be at least 5 coats of wipe-on-poly.

Gary