Lights for cold shop?

[Dennis J Gooding]

Does anyone know whether the LED replacements for fluorescent tubes will work in a cold environment? I currently use F96T12 tubes in my mostly unheated shop.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I am in MS so this may not be definitive. My CFL's do have to warm up when I go to shop and turn on the heat, The new replacement LED's do not . This is in a 55 degree shop as that is my minimum heat setting. Also have some (65w) floods LED and no warmup needed.

 

[john lucas]

I haven't let my shop get really cold yet but at 45 degrees my LED lights come on instantly. I bought the inexpensive lights from Costco

 

[Bill Boehme]

Unless your shop gets down below 0° C (32°F), things should be fine. Tat is the normal low temperature limit for commercial grade semiconductor junctions. In actual practice, the lower limit is often down in the teens (Fahrenheit) and if your shop gets that cold, there are other things to worry about as well such as bearings in machines not getting properly lubricated because the grease has gotten hard.

In industrial grade electronics, the minimum operating temperature for semiconductors is -40° C (-40° F) and for military/aerospace electronics, the minimum temperature is -55° C (-67° F). Military grade semiconductors are able to achieve such low temperatures by using a tiny bit of radioactive material to increase the temperature range of junction performance.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Thank you all. My own circuits do not work well below 40 deg's F or so. Sounds like a go for LED's.

 

[Steve Nix]

LED lighting.

I replaced all my florescent light bulbs with LED bulbs. No more problems with moisture and cold..bulbs fit directly into florescent fixtures. You have to remote the ballast and disconnect wiring from one end of fixture. Wiring Instruction was includes with LED bulbs. Sure beats having to buy all new fixtures.

 

[n7bsn]

I replaced all my florescent light bulbs with LED bulbs. No more problems with moisture and cold..bulbs fit directly into florescent fixtures. You have to remote the ballast and disconnect wiring from one end of fixture. Wiring Instruction was includes with LED bulbs. Sure beats having to buy all new fixtures.

What did the LED tubes cost? Considering that CostCo's price for the entire 4t shop light fixture is $25 (in-store), they would have to be fairly cheap.

 

[Dwight R Rutherford]

SGL 6-pack T8 LED Light Tube, 4ft 22W (48W Fluorescent equivalent) 2310 Lumens, 5000K Daylight, Single-Ended Power Frosted Cover G13 Lighting Fixtures, UL-Listed & DLC-Qualified https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W1DC2F0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_JPMUwbM9G55N3

 

[Steve Nix]

Lighting

48" Cost was about $15 each. I paid $35 for one build LED shop light last year at a BBS.. I replaced the florescent bulbs I my wife's laundry last month and it's now so bright she has to wear sunglasses Lol

 

[Bill Boehme]

SGL 6-pack T8 LED Light Tube, 4ft 22W (48W Fluorescent equivalent) 2310 Lumens, 5000K Daylight, Single-Ended Power Frosted Cover G13 Lighting Fixtures, UL-Listed & DLC-Qualified https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W1DC2F0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_JPMUwbM9G55N3

Is that the light output for the entire fixture or for each lamp in the fixture? I got curious about the light output from four foot 32wWatt T8 fluorescent lamps because that is what I have in my shop and earlier this week the ballast went belly up in one of the fixtures in my shop. I decided to just replace the ballast because it was the easy route and the price on electronic ballasts have now come down to the twenty to thirty dollar range. While I was at it I bought new lamps since the ones in the fixture were several years old. The new lamps are GE Ecolux Starcoat with a color temperature of 3500K and a light output of 3100 lumens per lamp initially and a mean output over the useful life of 2915 lumens. With four lamps in the fixture, that means the average light output from the fixture is 11,660 lumens.

A factor that can make a very important difference in perceived light output is that the human eye light sensitivity peaks at a wavelength of 555 nanometers. The range of human light sensitivity ranges from 380 nanometers at the blue-violet short wavelength end to 750 nanometers at the near infrared long wavelength end. What we think of as white light contains a blend of light across this spectrum, but not all white light is equal. Our brain are marvels at compensating for the color of ambient lighting so the actual color of "white" light can vary from yellowish to blueish. The moral of this sidetrack is that a light source where most of the light is concentrated close to the wavelength where our eyes are most sensitive will be brighter as far as practical application is concerned. If I am not mistaken, I believe that this is a factor used to calculate the CRI rating of a lamp. To my eyes, the LED lamps that I have tried out seem to have a "cleaner" looking bright white output. To me, this also says that lumens alone don't tell the complete story.

 

[dave clausen]

Does anyone know whether the LED replacements for fluorescent tubes will work in a cold environment? I currently use F96T12 tubes in my mostly unheated shop.

Led is the way to go no matter how much the cost. More light per watts ,longer lasting, and work well in the cold Live in northern il and all my outdoor lights are led. If you know what you want go online and look at 1000 bulbs .com and price compare i have had good luck and service from them. I am an electrician for over 35 years and have dealing with lighting a long time.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Led is the way to go no matter how much the cost. More light per watts ,longer lasting, and work well in the cold Live in northern il and all my outdoor lights are led. If you know what you want go online and look at 1000 bulbs .com and price compare i have had good luck and service from them. I am an electrician for over 35 years and have dealing with lighting a long time.

Thanks for the recommendation on LED lights. I am sold on them. We already have about half of the lights in our home using LED lighting. We haven't converted the fluorescent fixtures in the kitchen, laundry, and workshop and where we are currently using CFL lights and still have a large supply of spares on hand. Once those have been used up, they will be replaced with LEDs. The one place where I am reluctant to change is some chandelier type lights that look best with clear bulbs. We seriously need clear LED bulbs.

 

[Raul McCai]

Does anyone know whether the LED replacements for fluorescent tubes will work in a cold environment? I currently use F96T12 tubes in my mostly unheated shop.

They work Great~!! No flickering steady illumination. The only thing to watch is color. It's in the Kelvin number. 2700 is the number that most closely resembles the buttery incandescent light but if you are accustomed to fluorescent then you won't care. I put some of those double row 4-foot units from the BORG in my shop and they perform better than the flourescent

 

[Mike Brazeau]

Unless your shop gets down below 0° C (32°F), things should be fine. Tat is the normal low temperature limit for commercial grade semiconductor junctions. In actual practice, the lower limit is often down in the teens (Fahrenheit) and if your shop gets that cold, there are other things to worry about as well such as bearings in machines not getting properly lubricated because the grease has gotten hard.

In industrial grade electronics, the minimum operating temperature for semiconductors is -40° C (-40° F) and for military/aerospace electronics, the minimum temperature is -55° C (-67° F). Military grade semiconductors are able to achieve such low temperatures by using a tiny bit of radioactive material to increase the temperature range of junction performance.

I just finished reading the book on Elon Musk, SpaceX Tesla etc and at SpaceX they tried off the shelf electronics rather than buying MILSpec and apparently they found they worked just as well for rockets. May be a broad statement and not true for satellites. Often wonder how electronics and batteries function in satellites at the lower temperatures of space.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I just finished reading the book on Elon Musk, SpaceX Tesla etc and at SpaceX they tried off the shelf electronics rather than buying MILSpec and apparently they found they worked just as well for rockets. May be a broad statement and not true for satellites. Often wonder how electronics and batteries function in satellites at the lower temperatures of space.

An SRM (solid rocket motor) launch vehicle has a different set of operating conditions than an orbital vehicle. On a satellite, the main concerns are operating temperature, radiation hardening, and long term reliability since service calls are rare in space except for things like the Hubble. Satellites have on-board environmental control systems because the temperature extremes range from cryogenic to egg frying. On launch vehicles, the flight time is too short for anything to get cold. The main problems they face are the extremely high temperatures in the nose where temperatures can reach a couple thousand degrees. The other major problem is vibration because solid rocket motors don't burn smoothly like a liquid fuel rocket motor. The extreme vibration levels are hard on electronics and on humans. One of the greatest concerns for the Shuttle program was switching from liquid fuel used on previous manned missions to the rough ride of solid fuel as a cost cutting measure.

I think that SpaceX may be penny wise and pound foolish. All it takes is one failed launch because of an electronics failure to to lose a thousand times more than they saved by going cheap. BTW, there's a bit of PR BS becaue there isn't any such thing as an off the shelf consumer grade missile guidance system ..... unless things have changed that much since I retired. 🙄

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Just one further comment. The operative term here is "Quality Control" and it has two parts. Quality is what you want to achieve and you can only be sure you have achieved by testing the product, often to destruction. Control is how you make sure that the future items (the ones that actually will be used) are built and tested in exactly the same way. With consumer products, you may have no way of telling whether two supposedly identical items are built to the same specs or even in the same country.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Just one further comment. The operative term here is "Quality Control" and it has two parts. Quality is what you want to achieve and you can only be sure you have achieved by testing the product, often to destruction. Control is how you make sure that the future items (the ones that actually will be used) are built and tested in exactly the same way. With consumer products, you may have no way of telling whether two supposedly identical items are built to the same specs or even in the same country.

You're actually speaking of other things such as reliability. Quality in the world of manufacturing isn't what the lay persons assumes it to be. Quality control simply means that the product has been built to print -- meaning using the specified materials and conforming to the engineering drawings. It could be what a consumer considers a shoddy unreliable product and still be in perfect compliance with the materials and manufacturing tolerances. The type of testing that you describe is often a part of reliability life-cycle testing.