Left vs. Right

[Colin Macqueen]

Hi, new member here. I've been turning for a few years now but only self taught and using some pretty cheap tools. I've recently upgraded to some nice Sorby Tools and a Wolverine grinding system and decided to address my bad habits by going back to first principles and following Keith Rowley's Foundation Course. I've been amazed at the differences I've seen with better tools and simple guidance (if I'm honest, I wouldn't have called myself a wood turner; I was a hacker and a very experienced sander!).

Anyway my question is this; following Keith's guidance I've been able to get an amazingly smooth finish with just a roughing gouge but only when cutting right-to-left. if I go the other way I get more ripping of the surface and find it harder to turn a true cylinder (I'm right-handed). I'm trying to keep things symmetrical, though I'm certain that it's related to my stance, grip or something.

Has anyone noticed this themselves? Any tips or tricks?

Thanks,



Colin

 

[John Nicholas]

Left V Right

Next time you turn a cylinder, try it both ways - then reverse you cylinder end for end and try it again. See if you are trying to cut uphill.

John🙂

 

[pfduffy]

roughing gouge

Hi, new member here. I've been turning for a few years now but only self taught and using some pretty cheap tools. I've recently upgraded to some nice Sorby Tools and a Wolverine grinding system and decided to address my bad habits by going back to first principles and following Keith Rowley's Foundation Course. I've been amazed at the differences I've seen with better tools and simple guidance (if I'm honest, I wouldn't have called myself a wood turner; I was a hacker and a very experienced sander!).

Anyway my question is this; following Keith's guidance I've been able to get an amazingly smooth finish with just a roughing gouge but only when cutting right-to-left. if I go the other way I get more ripping of the surface and find it harder to turn a true cylinder (I'm right-handed). I'm trying to keep things symmetrical, though I'm certain that it's related to my stance, grip or something.

Has anyone noticed this themselves? Any tips or tricks?

Thanks,



Colin

Colin, Take a look at the grain of wood, and the species as well. Some woods turn best with the grain. Another check would be to stop and see where the end of the tool handle is pointed. It should be at about a 40d. angle to the axis of the turning piece. Phil

 

[MichaelMouse]

Anyway my question is this; following Keith's guidance I've been able to get an amazingly smooth finish with just a roughing gouge but only when cutting right-to-left. if I go the other way I get more ripping of the surface and find it harder to turn a true cylinder (I'm right-handed). I'm trying to keep things symmetrical, though I'm certain that it's related to my stance, grip or something.

Has anyone noticed this themselves? Any tips or tricks?

Seems to be true for strongly right-handed people. Others have mentioned cutting up grain, but I've found that when cutting uphill, the other side of the cylinder is downhill, so I'm not sure that's a factor. With me it's a tendency to hurry to the right and reduce my skew angle. I find myself trying to take a steeper cut, and often a thicker shaving. Neither conducive to smooth surfaces.

You'll have to practice your way out of it, I fear, though concentrating on skew angle and shaving formation will get you there faster.

Engineering types might want to weigh in on the right hand rule and whether or not that promotes squirm and poor surfaces.

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=PeelandPare.flv

http://www.turningtools.co.uk/wtintro/wtintro.html Chapter seven for a look at the problem. Of course the flat side favors the terms rising grain or diving grain over up and down, which is a bit confusing. Sometimes it leads to an edit.

 

[Ron Sardo]

I've been able to get an amazingly smooth finish with just a roughing gouge but only when cutting right-to-left. if I go the other way I get more ripping of the surface and find it harder to turn a true cylinder (I'm right-handed). I'm trying to keep things symmetrical, though I'm certain that it's related to my stance, grip or something.

Has anyone noticed this themselves? Any tips or tricks?

Thanks,



Colin

The best three ways to learn how to do this is Practice, Practice, Practice.
Riding the bevel as well as how low your handle is helps also.

 

[Colin Macqueen]

Thanks to all, Michael especially for the article link. I thought grain was the issue (like figure 7.2) but a lathe is not a plane and what is with the grain at one moment is against the grain 180 degrees later.

John - I hope you're joking or I'm even more of a novice than I thought I was!

Riding the bevel and the angle of the handle have been the two changes that have improved my work most so far. Practice is of course the key, I'll get back to you.

Thanks again,


Colin

 

[john lucas]

I think both schools of thought are correct. grain direction can be a problem on cylinders just like it is when turning endgrain vs sidegrain bowls. I find I can turn a cylinder cleaner with a skew right handed vs left handed. I think most of the reason is how I hold the hand that is on the tool rest. I turn so much with my left hand on the tool rest and this hand seems to know just how much pressure to put down on the rest, vs forward speed. When I do this in reverse, even though I turn a lot left handed, my right hand just doesn't seem to move the tool along the rest as easily. It could also be my left hand on the handle but to a lesser degree because I turn with my body and all the left hand does in this case it hold the tool on my hip and some rotation of the tool.
I turn Christmas ornament finials totally left handed. I injured my left had a few weeks ago and had to turn a few right handed. It was really hard which seems strange because I do all of my larger spindles right handed.
The best advice by far was Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Richard Baker]

Colin,
Even though I routinely switch between right and left handed without actually noticing it (being focused on needs of the workpiece, I guess), there is still some difference in quality of tool control between left and right handed. Guess I focus on how the cutting edge is meeting the wood, more than which hand is where. That's probably no help.

 

[Malcolm Smith]

It could be the way you sharpen the tools. Not a bad idea to examine the edge with a good loop. It takes a long time to become really good at sharpening tools. Also, most of the tools as they come from the maker need to be ground to a different configuration. If there is a group that meets in your area, some of the turners should be able to help you with this and possible you could try their tools.

The angle of the cutting edge makes a very big difference. When we start out I suspect we tend to set it in one position and keep it there. As part of the learning process, slowly rotate the tool and change the hight as you turn. Small adjustments can make a big difference. Over time it will become second nature to you.

Malcolm Smith.

 

[AnnHerbst]

left vrs right vrs grain on spindles

After I rough a spindle blank round, I take my skew and go left for an inch or two and in another spot go right an inch or two. I then look for which way has the least tear out. Some blanks have a definite grain preference in the smoothness a skew can get. I find the direction the skew is traveling is not what causes the tear out. This thread is the first time I’ve read others reference this. In my experience 180 degrees around the cylinder does not necessarily cancel out the effect.
I find there are some shapes I do better with the skew traveling in one direction, when I use a safety drive and a live center that matches, I can switch the blank end for end if I wish to facilitate this. When I am using a chuck, I simply go the smoother direction.🙂

 

[Dave Roller]

Are you changing your stance when you change hands and direction? That will help.

 

[Keith T.]

Hi Colin, I think there is certainly a difference...cutting to the right, you are pushing the tool away from you, to the left, you are pulling the tool towards you. I've found that running the forefinger of my left hand against the tool rest acts as a "stop", resulting in smoother cuts. You can try switching your stance, or switching hands, keep in mind "body english' is important. A bit OT: When I was younger, I found riding FAST on a motorcycle it was easier to corner to the left than to the right, took lots of practice to overcome this. Not that I exceeded the speed limit....

 

[Colin Macqueen]

Thanks again to you all. I watched myself more closely last night and I think it is all about stance. As I cut to the right I'm lifting the end of the handle into my ribs. I think that my lathe's too close to the wall (on its left), some more elbow room would probably help.

I'll report back later...

 

[John Nicholas]

Thanks to all,

...

John - I hope you're joking or I'm even more of a novice than I thought I was!

No, I was not joking. I've seen it happen when I'm turning and for others also. The turner either has a problem with the grain

or

is doing something different going one way compared to the other.

You last mentioned you thought it might be your stance. OK.

The question is now, how do you recreate the conditions for the cut to the left as you implement those conditions when you cut to the right.

When you do that, you will have solved your problem. Don't worry. It will probably re-occur and it will take the same thing to fix it again.

When you run into something with your turning, try it reversed and see what might be going on.

John🙂

 

[rsser]

Also try rubbing the bevel with less force Colin ... a tip from a turning acquaintance that I haven't tried yet - I have exactly the same problem as you with a forged spindle gouge.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Thanks again to you all. I watched myself more closely last night and I think it is all about stance. As I cut to the right I'm lifting the end of the handle into my ribs. I think that my lathe's too close to the wall (on its left), some more elbow room would probably help.

I'll report back later...

Sounds like the problem I mentioned. Think it has more to do with headstock avoidance than anything else. Even when you don't crack your knuckles against it, it's in your peripheral vision, so you try to avoid it. Realize it and train it out. Lifting the handle isn't quite as bad as increasing the angle of attack.