Lathes

[Walter Ambrosch]

Over the years I have had a simple Rockwell Lathe, an old Walker Turner ($100) a General, and now a VicMarc VL200 VS Long Bed. This in addition to my Huge Production CNC Lathe.

My question to you all is:

Q: "IF you were buying a new Lathe for Spindle work and some average Bowl work, what lathe would you buy? Keep in mind that this lathe must be able to make Furniture parts, and decorative platters and bowls (not to exceed 16" dia).

Note... Powermatic does not count (made in Taiwan) nor would any other Offshore cheap lathe.

I'm looking for Top of the line machines that will last for Generations, are easy to use, comfortable, with readily available parts both now, 5 years - 50 years from now.

I might stay with a simple 4 step pulley system so as to avoid voltage issues and electrical problems too.

Thanks

 

[Dave Ogren]

I am biased, but there is a used VB-36 with everything for sale in the Atlanta area. I have seen the pictures and talked to the owner. It has about 300 hours on it. My opinion, it is priced quite cheap. There is nothing that I know that can go wrong with them. If you turn on one of them you will want one.
Good Luck,
Dave

 

[Vernon Oberle]

oneway

Hard to beat a Oneway. Good quality and made in Canada. It has a variety of extensions if you need longer than 36 inches.

Vernon

 

[rjones]

one I do not care for is the vega long bed ( if you have looked at it)I worked at a shop that had one for job, The bed is way to light weight for my likes on long spindles, picked up lot of vibration, ( I am sure there are people that use them and do not have any trouble, but I still think the bed is too light)
Pick one with a good heavy bed,tail stock and headstock
good luck

 

[Greg Keddy]

The Canadian made General (not General International) 260 series lathes should be enough machine for you. Oneway is another excellent and highly customizable, though expensive, option. Otherwise, Robust seems to make a well machined lathe, though others will have to offer their experience on it, as I have only lusted after it in magazines.

 

[John Fabre]

Oneway, unless you want the light weights.

 

[James E Gaydos]

I'm a bit mystified that you would not consider the Powermatic 3520B.
They only recently started having there castings made over seas.
I bought one last October and am very happy with it. It is well constructed and the fit and finish is excellent. I just turned a vessel that was 10" x 16" and had absolutly no vibration, hollowed it at about 600 RPM's.
I made an extension bed from 3/8" x 3" x 3" angel iron and can turn a bit longer then 8 feet.
I used a Oneway 2436 with 5 foot and 17" extensions, when I worked as a production turner. It is a great lathe. I turned on that lathe for over 13 years without a problem. But I believe the Powermatic will do anything similar to what I've already turned on the Oneway.

I have nothing but good to say about Powermatic.
If your going to turn bowls, the sliding headstock is a god send. Powermatic was not my first choice, I wanted a Oneway, but after talking with a few other turners, and a short wallet, I decided to go with it.
Powermatic has been around for 90 years, and I believe they will last another
5 to 50 at the least.
Not affiliated with Powermatic, just a very happy customer.
Jim

 

[Jerry A Arnold]

Robust all the way

 

[robo hippy]

Well, for average bowl work, which I would take to mean bowls under 16 inches, I would want 2 hp, 220 volt, and 3 phase converter. You need more torque than standard lathes, and 1 1/2 hp on 110 volt just doesn't cut it.

You also want variable speed. A huge consideration as the bowl blanks are not balanced, and the pulleys work, but the variable speed is WAY better. After that, you need to figure out if you want a sliding headstock, or a lathe where you can turn out board. I prefer the sliding headstock. You move it down the lathe, and you have a short bed lathe. This means you don't have to bend/lean over the lathe bed to turn. Huge back saver. My lathe sits in a corner, so I can't turn outboard. Sliding headstock is the best fit for me, and that is what I have turned most of my bowls on.

There is a pivoting headstock on the Nova DVR. Nice lathe, but just too light weight for me. It comes with 2 foot long bed extensions, which take some fiddling with to get them so the tailstock slides easily over them. Also with the pivoting headstock, the tool rest/banjo has to hang out farther, and either doesn't reach well, or bounces. The electronic motor is nice though, and does provide plenty of torque.

I have the Robust. Sliding headstock. Their Liberty lathe is 16 bowl size, and had a vector drive motor. I can't explain that one, and haven't used this lathe. I wanted more hp, and got the American Beauty with the bed extension because the main bed was a tad short, but longer than the PM. Love it. Great lathe, made to use and abuse.

The Oneway has a lathe in that range as well, but doesn't have the sliding headstock.

robo hippy

 

[Art Betke]

Oneway 1640

 

[Matt Lewis]

Torque

Well, for average bowl work, which I would take to mean bowls under 16 inches, I would want 2 hp, 220 volt, and 3 phase converter. You need more torque than standard lathes, and 1 1/2 hp on 110 volt just doesn't cut it.

You also want variable speed. A huge consideration as the bowl blanks are not balanced, and the pulleys work, but the variable speed is WAY better. After that, you need to figure out if you want a sliding headstock, or a lathe where you can turn out board. I prefer the sliding headstock. You move it down the lathe, and you have a short bed lathe. This means you don't have to bend/lean over the lathe bed to turn. Huge back saver. My lathe sits in a corner, so I can't turn outboard. Sliding headstock is the best fit for me, and that is what I have turned most of my bowls on.

There is a pivoting headstock on the Nova DVR. Nice lathe, but just too light weight for me. It comes with 2 foot long bed extensions, which take some fiddling with to get them so the tailstock slides easily over them. Also with the pivoting headstock, the tool rest/banjo has to hang out farther, and either doesn't reach well, or bounces. The electronic motor is nice though, and does provide plenty of torque.

I have the Robust. Sliding headstock. Their Liberty lathe is 16 bowl size, and had a vector drive motor. I can't explain that one, and haven't used this lathe. I wanted more hp, and got the American Beauty with the bed extension because the main bed was a tad short, but longer than the PM. Love it. Great lathe, made to use and abuse.

The Oneway has a lathe in that range as well, but doesn't have the sliding headstock.

robo hippy

Robo,

I am enjoying the comments about the lathes from everyone. Although I don't turn a lot of bowls right now and turn on a mini, I was wondering why you believe there is such a diffference between 1 1/2 HP @ 110 v and 2 HP at 220 v. Doesn't seem to me that the additional 1/2 HP would produce a noticeable torque difference and 110 v is so much more accessible in the states. I stop to ask the question because I am in the process of considering a larger lathe, but don't want to spend a fortune or go too big right now because I face the potential of having to move a few more times in coming years, but need to increase my lathe capability - this thread is timely for me. Thanks in advance for the feedback!

Regards,

Matt

 

[robo hippy]

When I first set up my wood shop, I read everything I could on tools. One common thread was any motor 1 hp and above should run on 220 volt. Simply more efficient. I have turned on one of the Jet 16 inch with the 1.5 hp motors. The torque is severely lacking when compared to the PM 3520A which I turned on for 8 years. Not a small difference, a very large difference. It is in part due to the 220 volt current, and the converter that turns house hold current into 3 phase. You can turn bowls with a 1.5 hp motor, it just takes more time. If you core, you can still core on this lathe, but it is much easier with the extra juice and torque. You wouldn't notice a lot of difference if you are turning spindles as you are working with much smaller diameters, and torque wouldn't be as much of an issue at those sizes. In the 12 to 14 inch diameter ranges, it makes a bid difference.

robo hippy

 

[MichaelMouse]

I stop to ask the question because I am in the process of considering a larger lathe, but don't want to spend a fortune or go too big right now because I face the potential of having to move a few more times in coming years, but need to increase my lathe capability - this thread is timely for me.

It's the low end that is the problem with EVS, and thus the higher HP to get the same torque you get from a 120V 1HP. That, and how you turn. If you slice wood you need less than if you bully it. Easier on you, too. FWIW, 1 HP on my 3000 handles all that will swing over the bed easily. But I rough by slicing, not pushing a scraping tool into rotating wood. Maybe a quarter the resistance.

Most diameter I've ever turned was outboard on a 3/4 HP Delta @26". Also no problem. After countershafting, 8' pillars did fine on a similar Delta as well, though they were staved. The motor needs enough power to remove a shaving, unless you're challenging it to a brute force contest.

 

[cwearing]

Robust any model

 

[john lucas]

Well I love my Powermatic. Turned an awful lot of work on it for the last 6 years. However if you want to go American (or Canadian) then Robust or Oneway is the way to go.
I had 1 1/2hp on my Nova 3000. I do like the 2 hp on my Powermatic. I take some very large cuts at times and could stall the 1 1/2. I rarely have that problem with my Powermatic.

 

[Odie]

It's the low end that is the problem with EVS, and thus the higher HP to get the same torque you get from a 120V 1HP. That, and how you turn. If you slice wood you need less than if you bully it. Easier on you, too. FWIW, 1 HP on my 3000 handles all that will swing over the bed easily. But I rough by slicing, not pushing a scraping tool into rotating wood. Maybe a quarter the resistance.

Most diameter I've ever turned was outboard on a 3/4 HP Delta @26". Also no problem. After countershafting, 8' pillars did fine on a similar Delta as well, though they were staved. The motor needs enough power to remove a shaving, unless you're challenging it to a brute force contest.

I believe MM has come up with some sound advice and thought here.......

Having big horsepower isn't as necessary as some would have you believe. There are times when it's nice to have, but those times are relatively quick phases in the overall evolution of a bowl. For many turners, it's not about forcing the tool to cut, but rather control of the cut. I can bogg down my motor, but choose to back off from that point.......and the time difference would be negligible if more HP were on tap.

From my perspective, roughing a bowl prior to seasoning the wood, and the initial shaping cuts after the seasoning, are the only times when torque really makes any difference.......and, both these operations are done in short order!

My guess is 90 percent of the effort spent on a bowl is in the final shaping, detail work, and sanding. None of these things require much power at all!

My Australian Woodfast lathe originally came with step pulleys, and I changed belts on it for about 15 years. I converted it to variable speed about 5yrs ago, and I wouldn't go back to changing belts......ever! Sometimes, vibration control is only a matter of a few rpm adjustment......can't do that with the fixed speeds you get with step pulleys.

Originally, my WF lathe came with a 1 1/2hp AC motor, and now has a 1 1/2 hp DC Leeson motor with Minarik VS drive......no problems at all with this combination. I believe my first lathe, a Shopsmith, was 3/4hp, and my second lathe, a Northwood, was 1hp.........so, I've progressively increased the hp to this point. I'm now at the point where I don't see much advantage to go higher than 1 1/2hp, unless we are discussing very large capacity lathes.......

ooc

 

[john lucas]

Odie I sort of agree however when I had my Nova 3000 with 1 1/2Hp VFD motor and controller I was constantly frustrated when turning larger platters. I had to take such small bites it seemed to take forever. Sure I got the job done but it took all afternoon. With more horsepower I can rough out those shapes really quick and then go to the fine tuning with small bites.
With proper tool usage a lot of wood can be removed very quickly and still not tear the wood but you need the hp to do do it. I turned for years on 3/4hp DC motor and on low speeds had to take little bitty cuts to keep from stalling the lathe. I turned the same things I turn now but it took a good half day to turn a 12" bowl. Now I can rough one out and get to final cuts in minutes and have it fine tuned and be sanding in 30 minutes or less. When your short on time like I am that makes a huge difference.

 

[Bart Leetch]

It's been my understanding that on an AC 3 phase motor on a VFD that some power is lost in the conversion through the VFD & that this is the reason for using the 2 HP motor in this type of system. That's why I went with a 2 HP 3 phase Baldor motor. I believe that's why Powermatic & other quality lathe manufactures had gone to 2 HP & above.

 

[Odie]

My guess is lathe manufacturers have gone to ever larger motor horsepower because it's difficult to conclude that less HP is just as good as more. Indeed, it is very close to "as good", but not better. The reasons for doing this are based largely on marketing concerns, rather than practical application......

Even though I have doubts as to the practical usefulness of larger motors in the majority of applications, I'd probably opt for the larger motor if I were contemplating an upgrade in my lathe......which I am not! There is only one lathe I'd consider, but after much contemplation, I've decided my Australian Woodfast lathe will do everything I need it to do.......for the rest of my life! The Vicmarc VL300 would be my choice, and it looks like it's only available with a 3hp motor domestically.......so, I'd go with what was available. I'm sure the 3hp motor is a direct result of that 24" swing, and input from purchasers.........this lathe used to have a 2hp as the standard motor. (If I remember correctly.) With the 3HP and 24" swing, THERE, I believe a real advantage to the greater hp might be realized. From a practical standpoint, very few turners ever make anything that big with any regularity. Of the wood that is available to us, the vast majority of it is probably 12" diameter, or less.

It's true that VS does have a loss of torque at the very low end (3-400rpm, or less) of the speed range, but very few turners will ever need that slow of a speed for anything but sanding.......and there, power is not necessary.

For random orbital sanding, I use really slow rpms.....around 25rpm, or so. I can stop the spindle with my hands, but it works fine for the random orbital sander.

Again, if I were purchasing a new lathe, I'd probably go for more horsepower......but, it would be hard to convince me that there is any real advantage to it, except on a very occasional basis. As I said in a previous post, 90 percent of the work performed on bowls doesn't require much power at all.

1 1/2Hp VFD motor and controller I was constantly frustrated when turning larger platters. I had to take such small bites it seemed to take forever. Sure I got the job done but it took all afternoon.

Wow, I just don't know what to say, here John.........this hasn't been my experience at all. If you are spending "all afternoon" to bring your platter to the point where you are taking finish cuts using 1 1/2hp, then your experience is entirely different than it is for me.

If I'm taking large cuts, but had to reduce the aggressiveness of that cut by, say, 25 percent because I was bogging the motor......then I'd be taking 20passes to accomplish what 15 passes would do. The difference in time can be calculated in minutes, instead of "all afternoon". I'm not sure what it is, but there is a disconnect between what you are telling us, and my experience with it........

ooc

 

[john lucas]

Odie Can't say what the difference is. My turning style has changed in the last 10 years and I take much larger cuts for the first few passes because I know exactly where I want to be. When I had the nova 3000 I first changed from the single speed motor to a DC variable speed. The motor was bigger but at slow speeds the DC motor loses too much power. I could stall it easily. When turning full size platters I had to take many small cuts.
I purchsed a Variable Frequency Drive and if it loses power at slow speeds I can't tell. It has tons of power even at the slow settings. It was much better.
Now with my Powermatic which is not only a heavier lathe but has more horsepower I can get the projects down considerably faster. I'm not nearly as aggressive as some of the pro's but I do take some pretty good size cuts.

 

[Steve Worcester]

You may want to look at the Robust American Beauty and the Sweet 16, both will go to 52" for spindle length with bed extension.

http://turnrobust.com/

 

[Bart Leetch]

Thanks for all the great replies.

Here's my take, and I've been at this for 40 years.

As I gear down for the remainder of my life, I want to simplify everything and "Less IS More"!

My VicMarc is nice and yes the VS and everything is nice, but way too much for a simple turner with simple needs.

Sounds great Walter...but don'tcha know we're really only looking for the guy that going to be turning for at least the next 50-60 years & really needs 3 hp variable speed with all the lectronics not to mention the 4 speed browning gear box with a splitter on the main gear box so he can go where no one has gone before. This way he can get around to it.

 

[Patrick Miller]

Might as well throw in my 2-bits ...
I have a 1640 Oneway which I bought used but hardly so. It should be a fabulous lathe and for the most part is. This particular model is annoyingly noisy (both HS bearings and VFD generated) and the tool rest banjo is a bit balky to move around. I have done a rather extensive amount of conversing with the Oneway tech regarding the VFD noise but ultimately the solution offered was a new part. I also think there is some sort of a HS bearing update. It just doesn't seem that a machine of this caliber should require this given the number of hours. My comparison is my mentor's Powermatic 3520 which is silent and the banjo can be moved around easily with one hand. I would complain more loudly had I paid retail for the unit. Were I looking to pay retail for a new lathe Robust products would be a the top of my list.

 

[john lucas]

Hmm. I thought you could buy bed extensions for the Oneway which would make it an excellent spindle turning lathe. I know you can for the Powermatic.
I'm not sure about your comment on direct drive machines. Powermatic is not a direct drive, the motor turns a pulley. The Variable Frequency Drive isn't a problem since there are lots of them on the market. The reason I purchased the powermatic was that all of the parts in the main drive can be replaced with aftermarket parts or can be easily made by a good machinist. this means the lathe can basically last a lifetime. I was comparing it to the direct drive machines like the Nova. It that case if the motor dies and the company isn't making them anymore your in trouble. It's a great lathe it just worries me because I will probably keep this lathe for many many years.

Patrick. Your one of the very few I 've heard complain about Oneway. Usually everyone talks about them like they are Gods. Seriously though you do hear very few complaints and there are a lot of them out there.

Always good to have lathe discussions. We learn more about what to look for. In my book mass and ease of use are probably the two biggest things for my style of turning.

 

[Patrick Miller]

Agreed. For the most part an excellent lathe so I am almost loathe to complain. Mine just isn't quite as perfect as most. Just think folks ought to get all the real world info they can, the warts along with the accolades, before making the investment. Admittedly, based on their (Oneway's) reputation, the bar is set pretty high.
thanks
--pat

 

[John Fabre]

OK, Let me correct myself, I do not like the location of any of the lathes that have the motor hanging off the head stock, Some are Direct Drive and others use a very short belt.

As for Bed Extensions... WHY? If the lathe companies would get this right the first time, we all would not have to change things and spend more and more money.

In regards to power... I'm considering an Air powered drive. They are infinitely variable speed and can be as powerful as you like.

As to how long I can continue my craft... that is to be left in the stars, so I just want to enjoy it with simple solid tools I can pass on to someone regardless of future changes in the rest of the technological world.

Perhaps I will just build a pole lathe, then a Bow Lathe and maybe a continuous motion treadle lathe. What I would really like is a Barnes pedal powered lathe where you sit, pedal and turn.

Are you looking for a air powered lathe, how many air compressors do you have and how much room do you have?

I'm with you, I don't like the motor hanging over, got burned too many times. My Oneway and Jet mini motors are below.

 

[Steven Fitzgerald]

All I can say is that I really like my Powermatic.

 

[flyrod444]

I turn extensively on two PM 3520B lathes where I teach wood shop in high school and will say that they are good lathes for the price. I also turn on a Oneway 1640 in my home shop and prefer it for several reasons. The headstock is smaller and lets me work near the spindle without the headstock getting in my way. The banjo on the inboard and outboard side of the headstock move much easier and lock down more secure with less effort than do either of the PM's. The tailstock quill moves out and in two to three times faster on the Oneway and actually locks when I lock it down. I do have the 24" bed extension on the outboard side which gives me a 24" swing bowl lathe with a 24" bed. The extension also would make it possible to extend the inboard bed to 64" if the need ever comes up. With the bed extension I also have the tailstock raiser block and outboard banjo which makes turning on the outboard side very convenient. I have each side of the headstock set up with a different chuck most of the time so that I can work on projects that require more than one chuck simply by moving from one side of the lathe to the other. On smaller production type projects this speeds things up and is similar to having two lathes to work on in one neat package.
Happy Shopping,
Jack Mincey

 

[Bart Leetch]

OK, Let me correct myself, I do not like the location of any of the lathes that have the motor hanging off the head stock, Some are Direct Drive and others use a very short belt.

I don't understand as long as the motor isn't in the way & you have plenty of power.

As for Bed Extensions... WHY? If the lathe companies would get this right the first time, we all would not have to change things and spend more and more money.

Cost ...if you make a short bed lathe you satisfy the people that want them & if you make a bed extension you satisfy the people that want a long bed lathe & it's cheaper.

In regards to power... I'm considering an Air powered drive. They are infinitely variable speed and can be as powerful as you like.

I have found the VFD works fine, wouldn't trying to fit out to use air power be real expensive?

As to how long I can continue my craft... that is to be left in the stars, so I just want to enjoy it with simple solid tools I can pass on to someone regardless of future changes in the rest of the technological world.

I am trying to understand you thoughts it all very confusing why not just buy the Vicmarc VL300 with VFD it's a simple well built lathe for a reasonable price.

Perhaps I will just build a pole lathe, then a Bow Lathe and maybe a continuous motion treadle lathe. What I would really like is a Barnes pedal powered lathe where you sit, pedal and turn.

Confucius ask what do you really want , do you really know?

 

[Lyndal Anthony]

I have a Powermatic 3420, and am looking forward to buying a Robust, which is plainly the best on the market. The craftsmanship in absolutely the best and made entirely in the USA! Brent is a great guy to deal with too.