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Lathes

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Sep 16, 2014
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Palm Springs Area
I noticed that some of the lathes I see used and are fairly heavy duty like the Rockwell Delta use Reeves Drives for the speed control. Are these fairly reliable and what would their a speed range be. Also can you find parts for these older Lathes.


Rich
 
Finding parts for old lathes can be challenging. Reeves drives are ok but require cleaning and lube frequently. Usually they suffer from a slow speed that's too fast for rough bowls. Most were spindle lathes and the slow speed is often 500 rpm
 
What John says. You would have to like working on machines more than turning to get one of those old lathes. For today's type of hobby woodturning, larger swing, slower minimum speed, and bigger motors are what folks want.
 
Agreed.....What John and Bill said......

I had a Northwood lathe for a few years in the 1980's with a Reeves drive. (Northwood was an importer that came and went back then.) I recall that the speed range was 600-1600 on that lathe. Way too fast for good sanding at 600, and not fast enough for good spindle turning.

Not all lathes with Reeves drive have the same problems, but I had to put a stop at the fastest speed just short of top rpm, or the belt would hang up and you couldn't change the speed at all.....very frustrating. Had to go to the drive and fiddle with it to get it to adjust again.

Personally, after having this experience, and the speed limitations, I wouldn't ever bother with a Reeves drive again. When it worked right, it was good, but there's not much you can do about the speed limitations short of major modifications.

ooc
 
Morning Rich,

In the current "society" of EVS tools and computer-controlled DC motors, Reeves drive lathes usually get a bad rap. They can, however, serve as good starter lathes for beginning turners either on a limited budget or unwilling to invest more serious coin until they decide if they really like this Woodturning Thing. Configured as wood lathes they are a cheap way to provide a measure of variable speed, but as mentioned, the system suffers in the low speed range. I've seen old lathes that avoid this shortcoming by using a jackshaft and step pulleys in addition to the Reeves drive, but they were all metalworking lathes.

My first lathe was a JET 1236 and I learned to work with its limitations. I did, of course, keep the variable pulley blown out and occasionally dry-lubed with a graphite spray being careful not to slick up the drive surfaces. Taking care of it, I never had a problem with my JET's drive. I sold the lathe to a friend who wanted to try his hand at turning.

I think the bottom line here is that, unless you are into restoring vintage machinery, it won't be long before you'll be shopping for a more sophisticated lathe with more capability to allow you to grow your skills as a turner. If you're already at the point of wanting to step up your game, it's probably best if you pass the Reeves machines by and look for more in the way of capability.
 
I owned a reeves pulley machine 20 years ago and have turned on them infrequently since then.

With a proper operating reeves machine the speed change is slow and lacks the dynamic range of and electronic speed change dial.

The reeves has a lever and every one I have used required some push to move it and some restraint not to move it too fast.
The electronic speed machines usually have pulley sets that limit the maximum speed for a given task.
There s one safety concern with the reeves machine. The

machine has to be running to change speeds. Users need to be sure to leave the speed at an appropriate starting point for the Next project.

A good friend of mine got hurt when a student put an out of balance blank on a reeves drive machine left on high speed. Although the student turned the lathe off as soon as the mistake was noticed the machine was already going way fast and Threw the blank upward 10-15 feet. On the way down it struck my friend's hand in a serious injury.
Reeves machines are not dangerous. They need to used properly. The speed should always be checked before you start any lathe. With the reeves you can always turn it on and change speeds with no work mounted.

Could be a good machine for the right person.
 
The really old lathes with variable speed Reeves drives had pulleys machined from cast iron. They are durable, but it has been a very long time since any replacement parts were available. In all cases that I know of, the company that made those old lathes no longer exists. While the brand name of some companies like Delta still exist, it is only because the brand name was sold to another company. Newer lathes with Reeves drives made in the last fifteen years mostly had pulleys made from die-cast zinc. A lot of fixed pulleys on fractional HP motors use die-cast zinc pulleys and work just fine, but the stresses on Reeves pulleys are much greater and the my experience is that those pulleys do not hold up well if you primarily want to turn large things like bowls and hollow forms. Those lathes are OK for small diameter spindles, but I get the impression that they were intended for light duty use by hobby woodworkers who might occasionally need to turn a set of table legs. I really don't believe that the designers envisioned the extent of the new direction that woodturning took when a surge of new and almost rabid woodturners became addicted to the almost endless list of things that could be made on a lathe.

I know of one woodturner in my club who bought a really old "fixer-upper" lathe when he first became interested in the hobby. It didn't take long for the limitations and quirks of the old clunker to all but completely kill his interest in turning. It was only after intense "therapy" by helpful club members along with a decent lathe that he fully recovered from "old lathe-itis" and is now a happy and productive woodturner. My first lathe was a crappy Delta 1440 "Iron Bed" lathe with die-cast zinc Reeves drive. If I had not joined the Woodturners of North Texas where my interest in turning went from lukewarm to "fully involved", I would still be doing flat woodworking and thumbing my nose at the idea of spinning a piece of wood around while poking a sharp piece of steel at it.
 
Errr...ahh...heh...I'm turning on a 1440 "Iron Bed" Delta now. Got it cheap enough to start turning and made a number of things with it, albeit largely spindle work. I built a shelf and weighed it down with two bags of sand. The reeves drive has worked fine for me so far although I would love a lower speed. I've taught my kids to turn, made gifts, candle holders, ornaments, Ruth Niles bottle stoppers, lathe tool handles, tools, my son's pinewood derby car (cannon) etc. It's all fun. When I can afford to upgrade I will. As for the OP I think the older Rockwell Deltas are better quality and should last. If you are interested in older lathes be sure to stop by OWWM.org where there is a lot of content and knowledge.

Doug
 
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I like my Reeves Drive/VFD Combo

What John says. You would have to like working on machines more than turning to get one of those old lathes. For today's type of hobby woodturning, larger swing, slower minimum speed, and bigger motors are what folks want.

As the owner of three Powermatic 90's with reeves drives, I have to agree with Bill that you should like to work on machines before you consider buying an older one in need of restoration. However, many of these lathes can be purchased and renovated for less than the cost of an entry level Jet 1642 and will perform as well if not better. Here is a link that shows a Powermatic 90 I bought at a school auction for $400. I added a vfd, 3" riser blocks, electrical outlets and lights for around $450.

http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=129545
 
I am in the process of fixing up two 30-40 yr old lathes and adding a VFD to one, a General 160 which currently has a reeves drive. I have found a pair of cast iron legs from a 130-40 year old wood/metal lathe.

The General will be mounted on a 12"x4"x60" wooden slab. The cast iron legs will bolt to the slab. I will have limits on speed before using the VFD of 640-2000. With the VFD I can go all the way down but have a top end of 2000. This lathe will have a beefy outboard tool rest built on, providing for 18" swing.

The reeves drive works but is loud. I did get the low end down to about 340 by putting a smaller drive pulley on it.

However my second Delta has the same spindle size and swing but has a 15 yr old DC drive and goes to 3000. I bought two of these in the past 15 yrs to have plenty of parts. It is a little lighter weight than the General.

So I am enjoying bringing older lathes up to date for the 21 century. Many are well built but lack inboard swing capacity and VSD.

Bob Howell
 
Reeves Drive

I purchased my Delta HD lathe in 1990 new. It has a cast iron Reeve drive. I have never had an issue, it is still running perfectly and never required service or maintenance. Lowest speed is 340 rpm.

One advantage I have heard with the Reeves is higher torque than the VSP at low speeds because of the pulley ratio.


Now don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a new VSD lathe, but as mine is running perfectly, it is hard to justify the expense.

Just my experience, thats all.
 
.... One advantage I have heard with the Reeves is higher torque than the VSP at low speeds because of the pulley ratio......

It isn't that, but the fact hat any belt drive system (Reeves or otherwise) is able to deliver full power at the spindle. With an electronic inverter, power falls off proportionally to motor speed. Torque by itself means nothing because torque at stall can't do any work.
 
One advantage I have heard with the Reeves is higher torque than the VSP at low speeds because of the pulley ratio.

Jack -

What you said is very true. I was at my club turning a 10" peppermill on a Jet 1462 that has two pulley configurations and a VFD. It was set up with the pulley in the high speed range and I could feel the loss of torque when I turned the motor speed down. I don't have this problem with my Powermatic 90 because I can usually get the optimum spindle speed by simply moving the speed dial and keeping the motor at full speed (60 Hz) which is much easier on the motor because it runs cooler. The only time I really need to control the motor speed is when I need a spindle speed slower than 340 RPM.

Al's point about the potential hazzard of starting the lathe at too high a speed is also valid because the lathe must be running to change speeds. My Powermatic 90's came with micro switches in the headstock that wouldn't let you turn the lathe on unless the speed dial is returned to the "Stop" position which is a great safety feature but a pain in the neck when it comes to stopping the lathe to check your work. I kept the micro switch on my lathe that has a single phase motor because there isn't a practical way to control the motor speed and it instantly reaches full speed. However, I eliminated the micro-switch on my two lathes with three phase motors and added VFD's that are programmed to take 5 seconds to accelerate to full speed and 5 seconds to decelerate to a stop which is plenty of time to see how the piece is turning.

Roy
 
I started with eight cast Aluminum Reeves Dr., Delta 20+ years ago. It worked fine but eventually the speed kept creeping. Bigger stuff became more of a problem because of the speed creeping.
eventually sold it off and went to Oneways and now a Robust American Beauty.
 
I have a shop full of the big stationary Delta woodworking machines that I bought about 22 years ago, so when the woodturning bug bit me ten+ years ago I bought the Delta 1440 Variable speed lathe because of their good name and favorable reviews in woodworking magazines. Since I was a Delta fan-boy back then, I maintained a positive attitude and the Delta support was still great despite the fact that some of their newer machines were not something worth writing home about.

The Reeves pulleys may have been aluminum twenty years ago, but in 2004, they were die-cast zinc. Die-cast zinc is very common on fixed pulleys used with smaller motors, mainly one horsepower and smaller. But, the side loads on a Reeves pulley are much greater -- too great to make it suitable for that sort of application. I have a feeling that until about 15 to 20 years ago, home workshop lathes were primarily used for light duty spindle turning and the manufacturers in Taiwan (where the machines were designed and built and then badged to Delta, Jet, etc.) weren't exactly aware of the changes taking place where the lathes were being used to turn larger diameter decorative and functional objects. The die-cast zinc pulleys might have been marginally adequate for the average woodworker who occasionally needed to turn some table or chair legs where the torque requirement is minimal. When it comes to larger things, they weren't so great.

I estimate that I spent five hours working on the lathe for every hour that I spent turning. And, sometimes the down time was nearly two month while waiting on a slow boat from China to deliver replacement parts. The good news is that Delta support was eager to help and sent me all of the repair parts that I needed and would recommend additional parts, almost enough to build another lathe. They even said that they would be very willing to fully refund my purchase price at any time. Things gradually started changing after Pentair sold them to Black & Decker and the repair parts was transferred to Service Net. When Stanley Works acquired B&D, service just became a word that sounds nice. When Stanley Black & Decker sold them to a start-up company, Delta just became a word that sounds nice.

Back to the lathe, everything except for the wimpy drive train was not too bad, in fact, actually fairly decent. I was convinced that I could make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but the weak link was the die-cast zinc pulleys and there was no getting around that. So, being an engineer without a bean-counting boss to tell me that I am wasting time and money, I set about designing a new drive train using a Baldor industrial motor designed for true vector drive use along with a Baldor industrial vector inverter. The combination of the two could be set for any speed from zero to 6,000 RPM, although I couldn't imagine spinning anything that fast without installing at least twelve inches of armor around it.

I never did finish the project because the cost kept going higher and higher and suddenly a new kid on the block showed up at SWAT. Some guy named Brent had this funny looking black and gray lathe (funny looking only because it was new and different from the usual look that woodturners were accustomed to seeing) with adjustable legs, stainless steel ways and a 25 inch swing. After mulling it over (for a few years) and getting tired of limping along with a half broken down lathe and a nice, but too small Jet mini, I overcame my frugality and bought one of those no-longer-funny-looking beauties. My only regret now is that I didn't buy one sooner. I really don't know why, but I occasionally think about finishing my Franken-delta conversion just because it would be fun to have a hot-rodded turbo-supercharged old clunker lathe with decal flames coming out the headstock.
 
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I had a Harbor Freight lathe that did a good job but the Reeves drive froze up. I used that as an excuse to get a Rikon lathe.😀
 
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