Lathe Abuse

[MichaelMouse]

Got some "neighbor" wood to work, and wanted to get it roughed quickly to get on to other things. This was near 50 lbs of soaking wet birch, which is sort of a challenge for a lathe weighing 145 without motor, but doable at 15.75x7.5. Swung it at 360 for almost an hour to get it to the third picture. Didn't want to crank to 680 until I had nearly three inches hollowed out, but then things sped right up.

Might not make it in this form, because it's got a big wind shake at around year 24, but if it does, it'll hold some popcorn.

The horsey neigh-bors are loving my roughing sessions, because it's filling the stall and then some.

 

[dkulze]

Hey Mikey,

Got a trick for you in the future. Mount it up between centers then let it swing free. It will settle on the heaviest point. Loosen up the tail stock and move it the mount point down about 1/8-1/4 inch. Tighten up and let it swing again. Do this about 2-4 times and the piece will be almost perfectly balanced (unless it's got huge voids, etc and can't be balanced). At that point, crank the speed right on up to a workable level. Will shave a couple of hours off your round time. Also, using your biggest bowl gouge and doing cross cuts will take quite a bit of time off. Roughing gouge doesn't work that well on out of round wood.

Speaking of which. I'm starting to wonder if the roughing gouge might have seen it's day come and go. I can see it as valuable in the era before large bowl gouges and spindle gouges but less so now that they've evolved into modified grinds. I find myself using my large bowl gouge for roughing spindles much more than I do the roughing gouge. More stable and faster.

Just a thought.

Dietrich

P.S.(that's gonna be a nice bowl and I'll bet your shop smells great too)

 

[Bill Boehme]

We don't have birch in Texas, but I bet that would be wonderful to turn. I love the smell. I think it is because it reminds me of the smell of tinkertoys way back when they were actually made of birch.

Bill

 

[Vaughn McMillan]

I hope it survives the shake...it'd be a heck of a popcorn bowl indeed at that size.

... love the smell. I think it is because it reminds me of the smell of tinkertoys way back when they were actually made of birch.

Bill

So that's the familiar smell I've been trying to remember when sawing birch plywood. It's been driving me nuts trying to figure out why I liked the smell of working with birch ply. Thanks. 😀

 

[MichaelMouse]

The smell is very nice, especially if you're the kind who turns oak, elm, willow, or one of those other delights much. Birch has a bit of the wintergreen smell in the sap, not just the smell of the damp wood to recommend it.

D, I actually did have to change from my customary straight-nosed rougher on this bowl. After peeling the bottom and examining things to decide what I wanted, I was easing into a max diameter shape. Trouble is, the straight nosed rougher is not much for poke, though it peels to a fair-thee-well. The design is so inherently safe the tool won't take much of a shaving cutting up a nearly vertical wall, rather keeps kicking away from the piece beause it doesn't have much bite. Safer, but things come off very slowly.

Went to my Sorby 35mm http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/...mmGougeRounding.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1 which has more poke inherent to its shape to cut up and across the endgrain, stopping, gluing, rethinking, trimming and then regluing took a while. If I were a production turner, of course, would be different. I'd just turn to round and leave it.

Then the big time-killer. I measured for the recess, cut it, went upstairs and got the camera again and took a picture to show the pin chuck in action. Dismounted, mounted the chuck, and the d*mn thing was an eighth too big for the recess. After a cursory comment session, I remounted on the pin chuck, enlarged the bottom mortise and made the flop. Stayed at slow to keep things safer even after I had removed the 3/8 or so resulting from non-parallel tops and bottoms. Adds a lot to the time. Normal scoop is in the 10-minute range.

Since you mentioned balance, a subject I had not treated on, though obviously accomodated, it might be well to mention to people that the longer you spin a wet piece as you hollow, the worse the balance gets. Can be a bit disconcerting to pick up that feeling of shaking, and not find a ready answer in a loosening hold at either the mortise or tailstock. With big pieces, don't dawdle.

 

[Vernon Oberle]

australian birch

One of the gals I work with brought me some flooring samples from her husbands coating business and wanted me make him a pen. Man did that stuff smell good. I still like to turn a pen out of the remains once in a while just to smell it.

Vernon

 

[Bill Boehme]

One of the gals I work with brought me some flooring samples from her husbands coating business and wanted me make him a pen. Man did that stuff smell good. I still like to turn a pen out of the remains once in a while just to smell it.

Just rember that you may have a problem when you start to sniff lines of birch dust.

Bill

 

[Jake Debski]

Turns nice-smells great!

One of the gals I work with brought me some flooring samples from her husbands coating business and wanted me make him a pen. Man did that stuff smell good. I still like to turn a pen out of the remains once in a while just to smell it.

Vernon

If anyone ever offers you a chunk of fresh cut Black Birch(could be a local name) grab it. When you turn it, your shop will smell just like birch beer. :cool2:

 

[dkulze]

By the way, Mikey, how does that pin work for you? Been thinking bout whipping out a couple for myself as the drive spur is a pain at points.

It does look like it limits alignment but is probably better support.

Dietrich

 

[MichaelMouse]

Limits nothing the wood doesn't, actually. You make your best choice when cutting the blank, examine after and adjust to get rid of discovered nasties, same as always. If you get a wild hair to realign the whole piece halfway through the outside turn, you simply plug the prior with a glued 1" whatever and make a new mount. Joy lies in the safety, with no dismounts, and the ease with which you can make and or decorate a bottom prior to reversing. Not to mention the help when hogging inside that you can get from the pillar and tailstock. Dandy item.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Limits nothing the wood doesn't, actually. You make your best choice when cutting the blank, examine after and adjust to get rid of discovered nasties, same as always. If you get a wild hair to realign the whole piece halfway through the outside turn, you simply plug the prior with a glued 1" whatever and make a new mount. Joy lies in the safety, with no dismounts, and the ease with which you can make and or decorate a bottom prior to reversing. Not to mention the help when hogging inside that you can get from the pillar and tailstock. Dandy item.

Not to mention that it costs a lot less than a scroll chuck if you have already exceeded the National Debt on turning expenses for the year (oops, I guess that I did mention it). I have not tried it just because I can't seem to find much time lately to get in the shop where it would make any great difference in what I do.

I have not been taking careful notes on the way that you turn the inside of the bowl, Michael. Do you turn the inside with the bowl mounted on the pin chuck? If so, that would be an obstacle on my lathe (Delta 46-715, aka 1440) which has a rather large square headstock. Unless the bowl is rather shallow, access would be restricted. Does your pin chuck thread onto the spindle? I have some reservations about using a MT drive, perhaps even with a drawbar, because the torque load might possibly cause the arbor to slip in the spindle bore when turning a large bowl.

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

I cut only toward the headstock, save in extremis when needing a touch-up. Saves on shop space, favors my right-handedness, and allows me to stand straight upright as I work rather than trying to hunch and peer around something. After a few thousand hours with a 'chute strapped to your back, you develop a few stress points in the lumbar regions.

The hole left by the pin is handy for use as a third hand for mounting after reverse, as well as splitting the strain between tail and jawed chuck when hogging. I part or cut the pillar out when preparing to make the final passes to make room and allow cuts almost to the bottom. Since the very bottom wants to dimple out on a peel, I generally stop short a bit.

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/...ent=PillarSmall.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1

 

[NBHowe]

Gouge Use

Mike, I'll go with Dietrich on this one, using a large bowl gouge to rough out bowls large or small is the way to go. Using a Spindle Roughing Gouge is not safe to say the least.
Its very easy to dig in with the upper points of the gouge. Also the tang of the tool is very small and the tool will snap where it enters the tool handle. This could lead to the users hands coming into contact with the spinning work piece. The hand could then be dragged down between the work and tool rest. It could happen. I have seen a Roughing gouge that broke in this manner.
Dietrich,
How was that Sassarfas, made my shop smell like root beer for days, turned nice enough though, roughed out and drying.
Nigel

 

[MichaelMouse]

Mike, I'll go with Dietrich on this one, using a large bowl gouge to rough out bowls large or small is the way to go. Using a Spindle Roughing Gouge is not safe to say the least.
Its very easy to dig in with the upper points of the gouge. Also the tang of the tool is very small and the tool will snap where it enters the tool handle. This could lead to the users hands coming into contact with the spinning work piece. The hand could then be dragged down between the work and tool rest. It could happen. I have seen a Roughing gouge that broke in this manner.

So you've seen a tool abused by someone who had no idea of the mechanics of turning, and base your opinion on that? You're missing out on a tool which can remove great quantities of wood quickly, safely, and with a 150 or less finish on a slanted or convex surface.

Of course, they DO have that warning printed in every lawnmower instruction book now about not picking it up to use as a hedge clipper. Never can tell what bad judgement can lead to. Here's what the tool can do. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/...current=1012052.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch3

Note that:
1: The operator is safely out of the throw zone.
2: The tool is supported closely.
3: The shavings come off and fall to the floor, because they're being taken off with little force.

Other niceties like the edge being above the centerline where it clears because there's nothing but air there, and the orientation of the tool where the edges are turned away from the cut and the tool skewed from the axis of attack where it clears by the natural curve of the tool and bowl are also fairly obvious.

Then there is that thousand-year pedigree to consider.

 

[dkulze]

Now boys....

Nigel, the sassafrass is still sitting where it lays. Haven't made it even near it as I've been flat out with club events that I was in charge of.

Mike, I've come to use the large bowl gouge for initial rounding out during the "donking" phase of turning (you know, "DONK, DONK, DONK.....") and actually use it more than I do my large roughing gouge even past that. A draw cut with it removes huge amounts of wood rapidly and is even quite stable for initial roughing of spindles at high speeds.

For the larger pieces, I make a bevel setting cut to one side then ride it right across, supporting at the rest to cover for where there's no wood for the bevel to rid. Much less of a DONK than the roughing gouge. Can clean up a bowl like you showed in about 10-15 minutes with a high degree of safety (i.e. skips, catches, and strikes).

Where I use my large roughing gouge is actually in the manner which you described, as a large spindle gouge. When turning a large bowl or a vase where I need a long and smooth curve, I use it as a finish gouge on the outside. It's surprising how well it works in this capacity, leaving a finish I can start with 220 on and giving nice, clean lines that are easy to maintain with that consistant bevel.

Dietrich

 

[Martin Braun]

I agree with Dietrich. While it seems like a nice way to do final cuts, it seems fairly slow for roughing, though I can't seem to find any roughing cuts on the photobucket link. I can see how if somebody forgot to move the tool rest, and got into a void or inclusion, it could be bad news.

 

[MichaelMouse]

It's called "roughing," but if you don't have or allow load of the proper player, may not work for you. If you look at it, you might change your mind, D, about what removes wood quicker. Extra "plus" is that you're out of the way of fly-offs except for the knuckles of the left hand. Only thing I really work at clearing is birch bark which flaps and slaps and can take the skin off the knuckles before you can hit the kill switch. Rest of the loose or questionable stuff may depart at its leisure onto the tablesaw or down into the table if it gets to 6 o'clock. I'm not in its way, so it can't hit me.

I had SWMBO shoot a small clip from another angle to show how you take advantage of the inherent safety features of the gouge when going through the roughing process. Nothing earth-shattering, rather it's simple forehead-slapping "why of course" level stuff presented from an angle not possible on a chuck-mounted piece in my small shop. You'll note that the cut works down and across the grain, same as a bowl blank. Stand clear and rest near are basic to all turning, though in the case of a couple of posts here, not considered at fault in accidents. The wood is contacted above center to avoid digs on overshoots, the sharp edges are turned in the direction of the cut so they can't be caught, and do not sacrifice the safety feature of the gouge form which kicks it away from the piece if a lump or edge comes over top. The cut begins and continues as a swooping poke and peel until there's enough bevel support to pare along its length. Basic stuff, all of which apply to any gouge used as a gouge, not a double-edge chisel. If you run into situations where the gouge starts to bounce _anywhere_ in your turning, clamp the tool down to the rest with your hand and reinitiate the swooping poke and peel motion to get yourself a continuous reference for the bevel.

Apologies for the underhand grip, but my regular overhand, though sensible for control pruposes, wouldn't have allowed you to see the cut as well. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/...ent=PeelandPare.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1

 

[dkulze]

Think it's more a matter of personal prefference than anything else, Mike. Recently had Michael Hosaluk to demo and he used his large spindle gouge for all roughing. All work well for roughing and are safe if the techinique matches the tool.

Dietrich