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lacquer help needed

S

Sascha

Joined
Jan 17, 2005
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* ok, i just ordered a spray setup to put laquer on some of my pieces. i ordered from Homestead, Jeff Jewitt was
of great help and put a convertion HVLP system together for me. i ordered a 1 gallon pressure pot, a nice
gun(forgot to ask which one he is sending) and an additional gravity fed gun. with the nice gun, i told him to
get me the best one he thinks, i'll call him tomorrow and ask him which one.
my question now is WHICH laquer to spray. his recommendation was Sherwin williams either the T70 series,
T72 series or the cab acrylic laquer T75 series. T70 and T72 are out for me since my local serwin
williams(california) needs to see a permit, but they do carry the T75 series. problem is, they only have the 5
gallon buckets and the laquer has a pot life of 6 months. there is no way i'll be using that much, so i'll probably
throw out 4 gallons of that.
also, I don't have space for a real spray booth, i can rig something up, i don't mind going alll out with fan and
such, but i need ideas for a small tear down booth that i can either use in my shop or outside. * any ideas would
be appreciated, maybe some of you could send me an e-mail with pics of their setup.
then, today, i talked to my local serwin williams store and they recommended Kem Aqua, water based laquer or
the Sherwood low VOC * laquer, both have a much longer pot life and are available in 5 gallon buckets, the Kem
aqua is supposed to stay clear where the Sherwood might get some yellowing.
since i have never sprayed before, i need a recommendation, maybe i should get a different kind of laquer all
together, but i don't know what to pick.
please guys, fill me in on the secret of laquers, which kind to use, water based or Solvent based, NC/Cab or low
VOC. which manufacturer is preferred.
thanx so much in advance guys
sascha ** *
 
I have used the per-cat water based that Jeff sells and it works well, runs a bit, but it may be my gun. I use small hvlp conversion guns that run off of a conventional compressor. Never needed a pressure pot (which is usually for a pressure boost when your compressor isn't adequate).

I have also used generic solvent based lacquer from Sherwin Williams and from Home Depot. Buy it by the gallon. And even then, I usually end up throwing half or so away.

What are you spraying, turnings, furniture? How often?
 
Sascha,

I've shot a fair amount of Target PSL and USL via both turbine (fuji) and conversion (Walcom Geo + pot). They have done quite nicely. The Target lacquers have the huge advantage of being VOC compliant yet providing 100% burn-in like solvent lacquers. They also tint very easily with TransTint dye. If, however, you're going to be shooting turnings, I'd suggest you consider a smaller gravity-fed gun and go light on the material feed to prevent sagging.

I buy finish in smaller cans. Tried gallon size once to save $ and wound up pitching half so it was 40% more expensive.

Have done shellac and some NC via HVLP. Turbine screwed them up even with retarders added. I have yet to spray NC in my Geo, but it did beautifully with shellac at 1-1/2lb cut.

Suggest you try a quart of Target USL which you can get from Jeff.

Mark
 
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I gotta ask, what and how much do you plan to finish? I have a compresser and 2 conventional spray guns and 45yrs of spraying \ finishing experience. My point being this. For small projects (assuming I want a laquer finish) I use Deft in a spray can. For larger projects I use a catalized conversion varnish, and never ever use an hvlp gun in my shop.They are far more likely to orange peel or run than a conventional spray gun. I have used both systems extensively and they both have their advantages. The hvlp is a work horse and is good if you will be spraying several gallons at a time on a large project. For woodturnings a conventional jamb gun would nearly be overkill but will give you good atomization on properly thinned laquer at 30-60 psi. As for a spray booth I have no idea. I can tell you any product that isn"t water based is likely to cause an explosion you won"t soon forget if you use a fan w/o an explosion proof motor. This I give to you more for info than advice and hope it to be usefull to you .
Jim 😀
 
Indeed, be very careful on your use of solvent based lacquer (which are the only lacquers I'll use b/c waterborns are NOT as good as the manufacturers claim).
I spray cabinets every week but we have an 8X8 spray hood with proper motor placement and such, and the fire marshall inspects us religiously (and he's always speaking in tongues about how to store and handle VOC's).

Anyhow, since I use lacquers on nearly a daily basis and have had my fair share of troubles and such, I'd like to offer my $.02 on what to use.

I use lacquer on my turnings quite frequently, and I just use what's in the shop. I can tell you that there is a **significant difference*** in the durability of certain lacquers. All solvent-based lacquers give a nice finish, so that's not the issue. It's durabilty, specifically, chemical resistance (sweat, furniture polish, Windex, soap, etc...). And, well, precats are superior by an order of magnitude.

BTW I've never actually used Sherwin William's lacquer, they charge a butt load for color mixing (whites, for cabinets not turnings) and takes forever. Lord and Evans is usually much cheaper, much faster, and just as good. But we usually only use ML Campbell in the cabinet shop.

Nitrocellulose lacquers like Deft are, IMO, as good as Jello for a finish. It does look good. And if the piece only sits on a shelf for 60 years collecting dust, no problem. But exposure to any cleaning agents over time can wear it down, and it scratches easily compared to precat lacquers.

CAB (acrylic butyrate) lacquers are only marginally better in scuff resistance than NC lacquers. I don't use them

Precat lacquers are my choice. I specifically use ML Campbell's MagnaMax, mainly b/c it's what we spray our cabinets with, so it's what's laying around for use on turnings. It is very, very thick for a lacquer, and it typically has to be cut as much as 20% with thinner to lay down properly. Nice, high solids content. Dries quickly, but after a day of curing it's pretty resistant to even cleaning-grade lacquer thinner. After a month it's 100% resistant, according to the Campbell rep. I spray things that will get heavy use (like gouge handles and such) but for deco-only pieces I mix it 50/50 with Campbell's Flow Enhancer #2 (a very, very slow drying thinner/retarder) and wipe it on with the lathe on it's lowest speed. Several coats builds to a nice, thin, wood-looking finish (rather than a plastic galvanized finish). There are many other great brands out there.

Post-Cat lacquers, or rather, conversion varnishes like DuraVar and Krystal are also great, and are even more scuff and chemical resistant than precats. You can add the catalyst, mix 50/50 with the appropriate retarder/flow enhancer, and wipe on as well. OR you can spray it, just ***not*** at a 50/50 ratio.

Pre cats and post-cats are the bomb, and you can literally feel the difference in the best ones, like MagnaMax and Krystal. I have yet to try the post-cat polyurethanes, which are basically the best cabinet/countertop finish out there. I can't justify $50 a gallon for it.
 
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I do things on the low end of the pay scale. I have a $13 touch up gun from Harbour freight. I have a compressor that is too small and will recycle if I spray more than just a few minutes. I use Deft brushable lacquer from Lowes diluted around 50% with lacquer thinner. I stand in my garage doorway and spray toward the outside. On windy days I add a fan at my back to keep the spray outside. It works fine for me except on rainy days. Then I get orange peel pretty easy so I change the dilution and/or the pressure. Usually I can get around it doing this.
 
I really wouldn't mind the $50/gallon for pre-cat, but I only want a quart. A gallon will just dry up and go away.

I do use john approach though. I have a Mini-Sata HVLP conversion gun, but I have a home depot tough up gun at $25 that gets more use.
At $25 I can neglect it more and the tear downs are easier. The repacking kit for the Sata is more than the cost of a new HD gun.

Anyone tried the harbor freight hvlp conversion guns?

(A conversion gun is an HVLP gun that runs off of a normal air compressor instead of having to use a turbine for High Volume, Low Pressure (HVLP))
 
Steve Worcester said:
I really wouldn't mind the $50/gallon for pre-cat, but I only want a quart. A gallon will just dry up and go away.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean! I'm quite lucky to work in a cabinet shop b/c we have everything I need just hanging around, and the owner is quite fine with me pilfering the goods to finish my turnings, I think I've used a whole 20 ounces in the past year of lacquer and maybe that much of flow enhancer.

Call around to some cabinet shops if you know any personally, you may be suprized. Or, if you are a member of a local club, buy a gallon of precat (I prefer Magnamax by Campbell) and a gallon of flow enhancer #2 and divvy it up amongst yourselves in quart mason jars. $50 should buy you both gallons, so that's about $12-13 for a quart of both products per person, a helluva deal.
 
Steve Worcester said:
Anyone tried the harbor freight hvlp conversion guns?

I just purchased a 49$ model to try to spray Lacquar.
Will try this soon, Just got a little worried due to the comments in this post about dangers of lacquar sparying. I've got to set up a area to get air movement.

Paul K
Click to expand...
 
Paul,
Make sure that any fan you use is marked for use in flamable vapor enviroments.

JimQ
 
Also the obvious stuff, but things to triple check (I've seen guys spraying lacquer and lighting cigerettes, so there IS danger but it's NOT "inevitable")

1- Keep the fire extinguisher very close by, and make sure it's still good.
2- Wear a respirator, even when you're only *thinking* about lacquer. I'm wearing one now :cool2: and scaring the hell out of my cat.
3- UNPLUG THE GRINDER. I've had several very tense moments in our shop when I'd be spraying lacquer and another guy would come by and start sharpening something and flinging sparks everywhere. Our shop is pretty small, but we do have a spray hood, but unfortunately the only place we have for a grinder is, well, within 15 feet of the hood.

Also, I've found that wearing a full face shield helps keep from dripping sweat on the thing you're spraying. I have to wear either goggles or a face shield b/c of the type of gun we use (airless) and the possibility of an improperly secured tip blasting off the front of the gun. I liked the side benefit so much that I wear the face sheild even when using the cheap cup gun for lil onesies and twosies.
 
i got the guns and love them.
i now have 2 walcom geo's with 2 one gallon pressure pots and 1 walcom slim, gravity fed gun.
i also received a nice air filter to hook up to my compressor and jeff jewitt's book.
i sprayed 2 pieces already, i am using sherwin williams T70 lovoc sherwood laquer and the matching T60 sealer. i love these guns so far.

question, how often can i spray laquer, how many coats in a day. dos it need to dry all the way?? do i sand in between??
i am practicing and having fun. i'll post a link later, i just hate changing the picture size all the time

sascha
 
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