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Kaleidoscopes

W

woodwish

Joined
May 7, 2004
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Location
Lynn Haven, FL
I am almost embarassed to admit this, but it really has me stumped. I know the answer must be simpler than I think but it really has me puzzled.

I make a lot of k'scopes, by far my favorite thing to make or turn. I make most with colored glass wheels on the end that turn to provide the patterns. Also make a lot of them with handblown marbles I get from a company in Oregon (old hippies have to do something). I made a few more complex ones with fancy compartments with complicated ways to attach them or change the patterns.

But I look at the old cardboard toy k'scopes and they all have an end that rotates on the main bodywith loose colorful pieces in it. I know how to make the ends that I want, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to make them turn separate from the bodies. Must be simple, those dang cardboard toys do it so why can't I figure it out?

Any k'scope specialists out there want to share a few secrets? I've tried various PVC parts but nothing seems to work out right. Any help would be appreciated. :cool2:
 
I have only made a couple of Kaleidoscopes. A number of years ago (10 or so), there was an article in Fine Woodworking (I think) or American Woodworker about making turned kaleidoscopes. You may want to check the index on the internet and try to get the article. Basically the tube and eye piece were glued together with the mirrors inside. I put a piece of clear glass on the end to seal the tube and keep the dust away from the mirrors. Then there were three bullet catches inserted into the sides of the front end of the tube. The end piece (with the colored glass sandwiched between clear and frosted glass) was turned with a shallow groove for the bullet catches to run in. This way the end piece would rotate with the bullet catches holding it to the main tube. Did I write that so it was understandable?
Good luck.
Hugh
 
Bullet catches, hadn't thought of that one. Wonder where I could find some small enough. Sounds like I need to dig out a few hardware catalgs! Thanks for the idea, anybody else want to take a stab at a different approach? Still open for suggestions! :cool2:
 
I take offense...

woodwish said:
Also make a lot of them with handblown marbles I get from a company in Oregon (old hippies have to do something).
Click to expand...

:mad: I work glass in addition to being a novice woodturner. I am very passionate about both, and find each to be equally challenging and artistic. I am not a smelly, long-haired, drugged up burn out. I have only met one - out of several dozen - who could described in such a way. It is stereotypical views such as this that have truly hurt glass as an art. Also, I know many glassblowers in Oregon, so it's likely your talking trash about a friend of mine.

Good Day :mad:
 
The AAW board met at SOFA last year. SOFA is the largest art show in the U.S.. link here There were 20,000-30,000 attendees.

It was a fascinating show. The show was predominately glass. There was roughly 70% glass, 15% metal, 10% wood, and the remainder was other materials.

In one large corner the Corning Glass guys were doing glass blowing demos. I'm talking about 12"-36" vases. Beautiful and amazing. Just like an expert woodturner shaping a bowl, they made it look so easy!

In another large corner, there were well known woodturners doing turning demos.

Prior to the event I had known about guys like Chihuly and seen some neat glass work. During the event I learned a lot about glass and saw some incredible art. It is an easy conclusion to arrive at - in general glass art commands far higher prices than wood art. Most of the glass art was $5k-$10k, with many pieces priced between $10k-$50k.
 
Keeper

One way to keep the object cell in position is to turn a groove in the scope body and use a large "O" ring. This will allow you to slip the cell onto the ring and it will hold it in place. Be sure to use some form of lubricant so the wood will slide around the ring without grabbing.

Vernon
 
Vernon, another good idea I will try. Just need to find some the right size.

Chakajo, I started to just not even reply to that narrow-minded comment but as old hippie I feel I must defend us. Based on what you said I assume you think all of us are smelly, long-haired, and drugged up burn outs, I find that stereotype to be very offensive. Of those descriptions I will agree I have long-hair, but you are way off on the other two. I won't get even bother to bore you with my accomplishments in life but I can assure you that the only time I would be considered "smelly" would be after a hard day's work in my yard and the closest thing to drugs I do is a little beer drinking and an occasional glass of wine. Never spent a night in jail, never been arrested, etc. So who is making stereotypes? For what it's worth I buy the marbles from someone I have known more than 30 years, we met in college when we were both doing glass work. We live all the way across the country from each other but we do stay in touch. He makes marbles, and I use them. He is an old hippie that has done well in life, so am I. You obviously aren't an old hippie but it doesn't bother me, so why do my old hippie friends and I bother you?

Have a nice day, and I will do the same! :cool2:
 
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Missed the point...

Listen...I'm 28 years old, so I missed that period by a long shot. There are those my age that call themselves that - mostly dead heads and phish followers. I could care less if you or your friends are hippies. In fact, I assumed you were not, and were speaking in a condescending tone. As if glassworkers were just a bunch of old hippies with nothing better to do. I have a few old hippie friends myself. The thing is that to the majority of people hippie is a very bad word (not myself - I was stating an obvious stereotype), and the art glass community has been fighting that association since the 70's. I could care less if you drink beer. God knows I would if mixing with my pain meds wouldn't put me in a coma. I am not being narrow-minded at all. I am being realistic, hippies don't exactly have a good reputation. What would happen if you posted something to that affect about woodworkers, painters, sculptors, illustrators, etc. The association is an unfair pigeon hole.
This is especially disappointing. I've been wanting to learn about k'scopes and was looking forward to this thread when I saw it... 🙁
 
chakajo said:
The thing is that to the majority of people hippie is a very bad word (not myself - I was stating an obvious stereotype) . . .
This is especially disappointing. I've been wanting to learn about k'scopes and was looking forward to this thread when I saw it... 🙁
Click to expand...

Wow, guess it's all a matter of perspective. I consider it a compliment and use it the same way, never thought the "majority" thought negatively of us. Actually I saw more ponytails on guys my age at the last AAW symposium than I have anywhere in a long time, and I felt very welcomed.

. . . and I would like to get back to k'scopes, that is why I started the thread. Looking forward to try both methods suggested, even found some o-rings that I think may work. Anybody else have any suggstions or methods not suggested yet?

I took apart one of the cardboard ones last weekend and it has a series of concentric sized tubes that interlock for lack of a better term. Tried to duplicate it with some PVC parts but never really could get the sizes I needed. That's why I was looking for a more obvious solution that I have missed. 😕
 
"Some of the richest people I know are old hippies...."

Boy ain't that the truth. I've seen many a "casual" looking person pull quite a wad of bills out of their pocket. In fact many of them dress so as not to bring attention to their wealth. But we all know what the typical stereotype is...

Never underestimate someone by looking at their faded jeans and long hair. They may be just the client you've been looking for.... Or they may be the employee you've always needed.

My dad met a lot of these folks when selling human consumption items in a feed store. He carried stuff like beans, wheat"berries" and oats in 25-50 pound sacks, kinda like the health food stores do today. Man, you'd see lots of "hippies" come in every 6 mos or so and stock up. Dad said they were more like modern day peasants. Many of them were good, hard working folks that just wanted to live more simply.

Betcha there's quite a few of them that could tell you how to build that kaleidescope...
 
Ron Sardo said:
Some of the richest people I know are old hippies....

Anyway, the O ring is a great idea, does anyone have any ideas where to get them?
Click to expand...

Wish I was one of them, not rich but very happy anyway!

I found a pool pump place that has a wide variety of sizes and thicknesses of "O" rings, just haven't figured what sizes will work yet. They have some really big ones that are a slippery white/clear material instead of the usual soft black rubber. If I knew the real name of "slippery white/clear O rings" and the size I needed I could probably search for them online. 😕
 
In the last couple of years there was a kaleidoscope demo at one of the SWAT (Texas Turn or Two) events. One of the main things I remember is that they used "first surface mirrors" where the mirror surface was on the front of the glass instead of the back. Apparently that was important since it was emphasized a few times. I haven't made a kaleidoscope so I don't know if this is a big factor or not.
 
demos

J R Beall from buffing fame did a substitute demo at last years AAW sysmposium in KC. Man what a treat. He used about a 3 inch thin aircraft bearing inset in the tube with rare earth magnets in the outer wood cyliner around the cell to hold to the bearing. He also showed how to make variable angle mirrors.

Vernon
 
Ron Sardo said:
Some of the richest people I know are old hippies....
Click to expand...

woodwish said:
Wish I was one of them, not rich but very happy anyway!
Click to expand...

I said richest, not wealthest....


Jeff Jilg said:
In the last couple of years there was a kaleidoscope demo at one of the SWAT (Texas Turn or Two) events. One of the main things I remember is that they used "first surface mirrors" where the mirror surface was on the front of the glass instead of the back. Apparently that was important since it was emphasized a few times. I haven't made a kaleidoscope so I don't know if this is a big factor or not.
Click to expand...

Jeff
The links I provided in message #10 are all first surface mirrors
 
I have made literally thousands of k'scopes in brass, copper, glass, and now mostly turned wood- and front surface mirrors are critical. Also, absolute cleanliness in assembly is key in making a top-quality product. I take mine into the kitchen to assemble instead of trying to get all the dust off the benches in the shop.

J R Beall is best known among turners for his buffing systems and other unique turning tools but he really got his fame from making top-quality handcrafted musical instruments and k'scopes for years, dating back to the late 60's. He started the tool business in the early 80's I think. Check out his k'scopes here: http://www.bealltool.com/jrbeall/kaleidoscope_gallery.htm

Impressive stuff, I would've loved to sit through any demo he did. He is one of my heros in the k'scope world. The idea of magnets and bearings makes mechanical sense but not economical sense, but he gets a lot $$$$ than I do. Maybe some day . . . 😱
 
Now that you've seen his . . . here is one of mine with two stained glass wheels on the end for color. When a I get a few $$$ ahead I hope to buy a small kiln to do some glass fusing instead of the current foil-method assembly of the wheels-
 

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k-scopes

I paid for my first jet mini lathe one easter turning eggascopes for grandkids easter baskets. By the time I got through I was sick of them. Some of my favorite are combos of wood and stained glass. But like you I want to make a larger scope using a oil filled cell.

I have been trying to come up with a dell that uses a wood ring with a ridge on the inside seperating the cell from the scope and wood or brass retainer rings holding the cell and one on the back to keep the cell from sliding off the scope. I thought about using brass pins as the retainer but but kind of like the spring loaded bullets better. You can get them from Rockler or Woodcraft. I still haven't figured out what I going to use for a bearing surface. I am still considering teflon pads, but they need to be large enough that the cell structure is stable.

Vernon
 
Woodwish,

I was just thinking about what you said about the rare earth magnets and bearings...

Rare earth magnets aren't very expensive (depends on what size of course) and you can buy small cheap bearings too.

What size bearings we talking about? I haven't looked at the construction of the thing that closely.

I took a look at Bealls website. Thanks for posting that link! Very impressive! He not only has some fantastic K'scopes, he's got a nice clock design there too!
The clock bug bit me a while back, and I'd love to make one, but it'll have to wait til I get other projects done. Nice to know that Beall also set up a clock forum. Way cool!
 
Vernon- I have searched for his videos but they must be out of print. I've heard about them but have never viewed one. If you find one please let me know.

Ed- Thanks for the O-ring site. I spent some time this afternoon looking through their site and it is mind boggeling to say the least. I think I will contact them to tell them what I want and see what they recommend. Is the higher the durameter mean that it is harder? I think the PTFE might be what I want to try but not sure. I think for this appliction they need to be harder than the usual black rubber ones, and also slippery. Since you must have dealed with these folks do you have any suggestions?
 
I've used the Buna-N (cheap) and red silicone (pretty), mainly for decorative purposes. Both will have a high friction coefficient (anti-bearing), and without lubrication, will bind easily. You should give them a call to discuss the application...they are pretty easy to work with and know the products well.

Best regards,
Ed D.
 
I haven't thought about making k'scopes before now, but this thread sounds very interesting and something that would be fun to make.

Chakajo, unless you are old enough to have been of draft age in the late 60's, then you can't really fully appreciate or understand the nuances in the usage of the term hippie when it is applied these days to someone in their mid-fifties to mid-sixties by one of their contemporaries. I can't envision it being seen as a disparaging term. I definitely was not a hippie type while an engineering student in college, but if I ran into an old college buddy and greeted him by saying, "how are you, David, you old hippie" it would not be considered the least bit offensive. Young people these days who are referred to as "hippies" are really just bums playing make-believe Hollywood stereotype hippies.

Bill
 
Bearings

The bearings he uses are thin aircraft bearings about 3" diameter and run about $100 each. But when you get $2500 for a scope whats another 100 or so.

I have a left handed thread tap and am planning on trying to make a variable geometery mirror one of these days. You have to have both threads right/left because it works like a hand screw clamp.

Vernon
 
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