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Jigs for cutting staves???

John Terefenko

John Terefenko

Joined
Oct 7, 2009
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Does anyone have any photos of their jig for cutting compound staves.??? I have included some photos of what I am attempting to do. I cut these on my tablesaw with a crude setup and alot of guess work. I was not happy with the results because of safety and could not make them small enough. These are about 3" in length. Would like to make them about 2" and thinner. Thanks in advance. Also is there some formula for calculating the angles and all.??? The tapering is not easy either. Appreciate any help. Thanks.

IMGP0495.jpg


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John,
This appears to be a reprise of your recent previous posts on two forums. Perhaps others here will have more helpful answers. Hope you find what you need.
 
Google ["dihedral angle" "compound miter"] for some hints on how to lay out or compute the angles you need. The first few hits should provide enough information. Your bevel angles will be 1/2 of the dihedral. There are probably some spreadsheets on the Internet, too.

Graphical construction (aka descriptive geometry) might be easier than computing, but only if you know how. And, of course, you can sneak up on the "correct" answer by trial and error on scraps.
 
Texian said:
John,
This appears to be a reprise of your recent previous posts on two forums. Perhaps others here will have more helpful answers. Hope you find what you need.
Click to expand...

I have placed this question on a few sites and the answer I got most was check out Malcolm Tibbetts book and his jig setup. I was hoping others have done something similar and had more photos. I will check his book out. I do need to come up with a safer way of doing them. Thanks all.
 
John,
Am curious what aspect(s) of cutting staves with a sled on a tablesaw do you consider unsafe? If we knew your specific concerns it might be possible to address them. I would welcome some insight on any aspects of my own procedure that are unsafe.
 
Texian said:
John,
Am curious what aspect(s) of cutting staves with a sled on a tablesaw do you consider unsafe? If we knew your specific concerns it might be possible to address them. I would welcome some insight on any aspects of my own procedure that are unsafe.
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The unsafe part has to do with the size and I was unable to use any hold downs because there is not much wood to hold. I need to figure a way to build a cradle of some sort. Make my cuts on one side and then flip it to make the opposite side. Like I said I was just playing around and really did not develop a jig that I felt confortable with. Like I said it is the compound cutting that is a bit tricky to me. I have not tried a mitersaw because I like the tablesaw. I am going to look Malcom's sled over and maybe use parts from that. I have a left tilt saw and maybe that is what is getting to be a problem.
 
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Do you have a belt or disk sander it would be safer to cut 1 angle on the saw and square cut the other side and sand it to fininsh size.If you make a wedge for your bevel you only have the taper to get rite.
 
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John,
You must be cutting some very narrow staves. When cutting mine the stave is always securely clamped to the sled with a block of wood screwed to the sled. Crude but very effective. There is no way I would attempt to hand-hold and cut a stave. Even if that were not unsafe, which it is, the stave would move some small amount and the cut would not be straight and flat.
 
These seem to be the same photos as before. (Malcolm, try right click and open in a new window, instead of direct - this is an off-site storage.)

I think you're begging for trouble by cutting so close to the center of the assembly in one shot, especially with a shorter height. It might be safer to cut one bevel from a wide piece, then attach that cut with hot-melt glue or double-sided tape to a mating bevel on a larger piece, and cut the final (opposite-side) bevel to the correct dimension. This way, a large (+/-) piece can be clamped to a sled for both cuts. There's a lot of waste by such a method, but less chance of losing fingers.
 
Ok John, I see/understand what you are up against now. The 3" length is no problem, but your staves have essentially no interior flat surface which would be the clamping surface for the second cut. Is there a reason not to use thinner stock for the staves? That would give you some interior flat surface for clamping onto the sled.
 
Texian said:
Ok John, I see/understand what you are up against now. The 3" length is no problem, but your staves have essentially no interior flat surface which would be the clamping surface for the second cut. Is there a reason not to use thinner stock for the staves? That would give you some interior flat surface for clamping onto the sled.
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I would rather not have the hollow in the center.
 
Have you considered using a compound miter saw instead of a table saw? Make all the first cuts at one setting, then reverse the bevel for all the second cuts, with the stock flipped as needed. The "waste" pieces of the second cuts would be the segments themselves. The remnants can be as large as you feel safe with. I suppose this could work with a table saw, too.

For power sanding, I'd hot-melt glue a piece of scrap to the outside face (which is substantially sacrificial) for a handle, and cut off with a knife afterwards for final assembly.
 
Joe, I think we're homing in on John's problem. Beginning with long blank (3" wide along the grain, 12" long cross grain) make first cut. Switch to second sled, flip as needed, make second cut to cut stave off the blank. The blank would be clamped to sled for both cuts, but the stave would be loose or trapped between the blade and stop block. Flip, switch as needed and cut next stave off the blank. Basically same as your hot melt idea without the hot melt.
 
Righto, Richard.

The flip will probably be needed, because most table saws and compound miter saws tilt only one way, whereas the miter angle can be left or right of perpendicular. I have a hand-powered CMS, badged "Hempe" that tilts both ways. Sometimes also sold by Jorgensen IIRC. The tilt protractor is only about 2" diameter, so it isn't tight precision. That's why I suggested doing all the first bevels in one setting, and then the second.

Here's a link to an angle calculator I just found: http://jansson.us/jcompound.html - useful for n-sided pyramids. Power CMS's sometimes have similar calculators or tables in the instruction manual.
 
John Terefenko said:
I tried a different approach to showing the photos. Can anyone see them and see what I am looking to do???

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/IMGP0495.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/IMGP0496.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/IMGP0497.jpg


Malcolm, is this a new Volume??? I have your Vol. 1 and 2 set.

Texian can you see my photos??? The item show is about 3" in length to give you an idea of what I am after.
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John, I was able to view the photos. If you are only cutting staves 3" to 4" in length, then a sliding-compound miter saw would be your best approach. For all my ribbon constructions, I cut my staves this way. And yes, I have a Volume Three DVD available.
 
SCMS vs CMS

It's always nice to have an excuse for buying more tools. But, unless you foresee a need for a SCMS, a simpler CMS might be sufficient, and substantially less expensive - The sliding feature can add a few hundred dollars to the cost, from a quick browse in Grizzly's catalog. Grizzly also lists a Jorgensen hand miter saw at about 1/10 the cost of the powered CMS, but without the compound feature. I got my Hempe compound version at a garage sale, but Google can probably find a source of either Hempe or Jorgensen. The hand saw also cuts a narrower kerf, FWIW.
 
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