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Is there a forum for "Chhers & Jeers" of suppliers

D

Dennis McManaman

Joined
Oct 6, 2012
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Location
Amarillo, Texas
I am wondering if there is a place where we can express pleasure and or displeasure relating to people and or companies we have dealt with in pursuit of our passion for making shavings?

The IAP has one called "Cheers & Jeers".
 
having read your post on IAP, and seen response - I would say that you should leave your drama on IAP

IMHO, posting a jeer on this forum is just an effort to continue smearing someone.
 
The problem is the likelihood of flamers and trolls. There being at least two sides to every story, ISPs and Hosts can run into some liability if they allow what can amount to libelous comments to remain on a forum. Gets to be a huge moderation effort, and most such boards seem destined to have short life spans.

There have been instances on several forums where a supplier is bullied, tantamount to being extorted, by threats to post horror stories on woodworking forums. In the early days of this forum there were a few who thought they could say anything about anyone all in the name of free speech and "opinion". That ended rather quickly.

Everyone wants to know about good businesses with quality products and customer service. It's the opposite situation that raises the problems.
 
Drama???

Well, quite honestly there a lot of turners who do not belong to or even know of the IAP.

Having an area where honest factual discussions and information can be made public for the woodturning community would seem to be something that should not be done. It might cause someone to hesitate in ordering from someone or some company that has a less than stellar track record.

Putting the truth out is not drama unless someone has to keep digging into it to keep it from scabbing over.
It also is a place to give kudos where kudos belong to people/companies that go the extra mile to make sure their customers are informed and as satisfied as the company/person can make them. <We all know that there are people who cannot be pleased with anything>

I have dealt with several vendors and had outstanding to very poor service from them. I would be delighted to never have to resort to a jeer on anyone.
We are supposedly a brotherhood to help each other and look out for each other???

Are we supposed to act like an everything is peaches and cream when we get either a crappy product or crappy service??
 
Stating the facts

Bill Boehme said:
If you have a problem, get with the business and work out a solution. Bashing in an online forum has never solved an issue.
Click to expand...

Stating the facts as they are does NOT constitute flaming as I understand the term.

However, not being a forum guru or expert I feel quite sure that all the above will be most happy to set me straight.

geeze....
 
Dennis McManaman said:
I am wondering if there is a place where we can express pleasure and or displeasure relating to people and or companies we have dealt with in pursuit of our passion for making shavings?

The IAP has one called "Cheers & Jeers".
Click to expand...

I woouldn't worry about it, Dennis......

If I'm not mistaken, I've seen a few complaints aired right here on the AAW main forum. Just recently we've heard some complaints on grinders.....from Woodcraft, I believe.

Go ahead and say what's on your mind, and no matter what it is, you're bound to get some comment and/or advice that will help.

===========================================

That reminds me.......

Me? I've been a customer of Woodcraft for years, but I'm getting tired of ordering wood turning blocks that arrive unmarked. Usually I can figure out most of what I get, but there always seems to be some questionable identification of a few blocks.

Have I called Woodcraft and told them? Yep.

I've also seen customer reviews of wood blocks on Woodcraft that have mentioned this.

Wood turning blocks continue to be sent unmarked......and, when you order several hundred dollars worth at a crack, it can get a little frustrating.

Woodcraft has been a great supplier of many of my shop supplies, but they have dropped the ball on this one........:mad:

ooc
 
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Thank you Odie

I could not agree more with you about the wood that woodcraft sends out to fill orders.
I do not buy any wood from them any longer for that very reason.
If I happen to be near a woodcraft store (and not due to be flying home but driving) I sometimes will swing by and perhaps buy a few items but very rarely do I buy wood from them even in person.


Have I told them why??
yes I have.

Are there other vendors out there that I love to do business with??
You bet.

Others, not so much.
 
Odie, discussing issues and problems can be done in different ways. It would be good to reread that thread to see how things were handled in a constructive manner rather than bashing. If Dennis wasn't too thrilled with his reception here, just perhaps he might also think about how Curtis feels about his treatment by Dennis. I could be all wrong, but it seems to me that things are always much easier to resolve when not dealing on an adversarial basis. Plus, you'll live longer if you keep your blood pressure under control. Everybody occasionally encounters things that turns over our apple cart. That's life.
 
Dennis,
Most of the wood crafts are individually owned as a franchise.
As such they can stock a small percentage of none woodcraft items.

Some of the Florida woodcrafts stock wood and turning tools from sources and are not in the woodcraft catalog.

Many of these local owners are quite generous to AAW chapters, providing a free meeting place, storage for club equipment, and discounts to club members.

I would not paint all woodcrafts with the same brush.

Al
 
Re-read the thread on "Woodcraft Grinders"

I agree with Bill -

The following link is from the AAW Main Forum from about 10 months ago (27 Feb 2013) related to the batch of bad grinders received at Woodcraft and being sold as part of their usual $99 sale. I was in the middle of this discussion with Woodcraft, and can say that they were responsive, proactive, and in the end did the correct thing - resolving the issue on what would have been a MAJOR problem for many defective grinders making their way into woodturner's shops if they simply kept on selling them. I have gained a greater respect for Woodcraft as a result of their actions on this problem.

Please re-read this thread before making your decisions about doing business with Woodcraft:

www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=10065

I don't support the creation of a "Cheers and Jeers" page as part of the family of AAW Forums - in addition to the liability issues Mark identifies, the need to carefully monitor the posts and identify 'flames' and 'trolls' is a continuous, on-going requirement (as it is on all of our forums) but the nature of posting 'jeers' lends itself to bashing (deserved or not) more than anything else.

There have been comments on this and other forums about receiving excellent service from various vendors over the years that are obviously from unrelated parties. There have also been questions and comments raised about receiving less-than-optimal service, back-ordered items, or other problems to see of others are experiencing the same situation. In my experience, that information makes its way into the woodturning community fairly quickly. I can envision that having a "formal" place to do this can only generate more problems than benefits that might be gained by creating such a forum. "Cheers and Jeers" as a concept is already happening in our current Forums, and it is still being observed carefully by the Forum moderators, and by the participants in the forum. ["If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"]

It is incumbent upon the customer and vendor to resolve problems independent of Internet forums. The Woodcraft grinder example above does give one experience that proved to be a positive outcome, which was initiated by a simple question about the performance of a new grinder that had just been received. There's no guarantee that all disputes will be resolved with the same positive outcome. This was accomplished through our standard "Main" forum in a constructive, civilized manner, and there is no reason why similar concerns could not be discussed here. (If you have ever looked at a Craig's List "Rants and Raves" page, you should know that we do not want such a forum associated with woodturning or the AAW at all!!)

Rob Wallace
 
Well I haven't bought much wood from Woodcraft but have bought a fair amount from Pete Kekel http://bigmonklumber.com/ Every piece has been marked which is good because my memory sucks and he has such a wide variety.
You do have to consider that the wood products at woodcraft is only one small part of their business and if the wood doesn't come labeled it might be pretty time consuming to do that. I do understand the problem though and it would suck to not know.
I don't think we need a separate category to discuss problems with vendors. It already creaps in from time to time. There is currently a discussion about Delta parts problems. I don't see a problem as long as it stays civil. It would be nice to know if things are factual and not just flamming because of a perceived or actual wronged customer. I worked in retail sales and dealt with customers my whole life and there are definitely some you can't please no matter what you do.
 
john lucas said:
I don't think we need a separate category to discuss problems with vendors. It already creaps in from time to time.
Click to expand...

All of the concern seems to be with the “jeers” and the following comments are in that light: As John mentioned up there ^, it does sporadically appear on the forums and I don’t see that as a bad thing. The recent eBay Airstream helmet thread is another example. BUT, folks tread pretty lightly in their posts about such things since it’s not the regular tone of the forums. If there were a sub-forum for “cheers and jeers”, it would essentially give permission to post complaints freely and I’d be concerned that people would be posting with emotion and not taking the time to cool off and do the problem-solving conversation with the other party beforehand.

As to “cheers”, we do that all the time and I don’t see any need to separate it from the mainstream discussion. In this regard, a sub-forum would be vulnerable to “ballot stuffing” with faux testimonials as non-existent popularity and advertising.

I’m sorry that Dennis doesn’t appear to see that the collective comments against his suggestion are indicative of a community that’s actively self-moderating. (As Martha would say, “That’s a good thing.”) It’s the civility of self-moderating that would be at risk should a “jeers” forum be created.
 
I think the best policy is leaving the cheers and Jeers comments for other forums or in direct emails to the vendors and perhaps your friends.
Some folks take things way too personal and hard for rational discussion in an open forum like this.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading about new products that innovate and do a job well.
As long as they are not spam.
I don't have the time or inclination to read posts trashing customers or vendors.
 
I agree with Rob, John, and Owen and Mark,
Some vendor kudos and problems are going to pop up from time to time as part of our communications. That serves a purpose and is ok IMHO as long as we treat the vendors with respect and remember they are an essential and active part of our woodturning community. Most vendors are woodturners and AAW members. Without vendors we can't turn wood and have tremendous trade shows in our symposiums.
A few are active contributors to the forum too! Heck, I even let some of them stay in my home. They are real people with real feelings.

Al
 
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I agree with not having a separate section for this type of thing. However, I like hearing about good and bad experiences folks have with vendors as long as they stick with the facts and stay civil. This helps me in deciding how to handle a potential purchase with that vendor. As a small business owner it does me good to hear of problems so I know how to become better. If I fail the customer they should have a right to a place to express their concerns that may effect my future business. If a complaint comes in and you know the vendor then let them know so they can share their civil account of events. We can then choose who is the unreasonable party which will be it's own police. If the complaint is as simple as wood being marked, maybe that type of frustration expressed enough will help make a simple change by the vendor.

I would like to be clear that flaming a vendor only makes the poster look unreasonable from the outset and in my eye discredits them immediately.

Just my view,

Dale
 
It was me that initially brought up Woodcraft not labeling their turning blocks. I guess I must make it clear that I still am a customer of Woodcraft, and I still do buy turning blocks from them......among quite a few other woodworking products, as well. I've gotten a lot of real good service from online shopping at Woodcraft. I intend to continue doing business with them, even though it seems like a simple matter to label their turning blocks.

It was also me, who told the OP to go ahead and post his complaint. After reading what he had to say, I was disappointed. I think the OP could have aired his complaint in a way that would have brought forth some good suggestions from others, but it did sound a bit "whiney".

Looks like that thread was deleted, and rightfully so.
 
cheers and random orbital sander

Per these 2 recent threads, I decided to bolster my sanding disc order with The Sanding Glove (Bruce/ Jan Hanover) 2 days ago with the Matebo electric orbital sander.
At 5:30 tonite while I was "turning", Bruce called me to say I needed an interface pad or 2, and was throwing them in with my large order ($12 extra), at no cost to me-, and wanted to explain what was in the shipment. What a nice guy. Cheeeers, Gretch
 
I understand that Odie, I was just using that as an example. I did not see the other thread you referenced since I was out of town and had limited internet access. Happy turning.
 
Cheers and Jeers...

I LIKE the idea of a 'Cheers and Jeers' section!!! I routinely research this and other forums for recommendations and complaints about products and retailers who serve our members. I, like others I'm sure, respect other turners who have tried products and vendors who have served them well and those who have not... I appreciate honest opinions of those who recommend vendors/products and likewise make a decision on purchasing from those vendors/products who have not proven practical. We are all adults and most of us have turned long enough to decide which comments that are a 'flame' in nature and those who recommend great products. I'm sure, I like many others, have purchased a number of products and services who were highly recommended and even a number who were not, but still gave the vendor/product a chance to prove themselves...
I, like most 'newbies' respect those opinions and suggestions of more experienced wood turners and appreciate their input and comments prior to making a substantial purchase on my limited 'hobby' budget! Safe turning to all and may you all may make a perfect purchase!🙂
 
Gretch Flo said:
Per these 2 recent threads, I decided to bolster my sanding disc order with The Sanding Glove (Bruce/ Jan Hanover) 2 days ago with the Matebo electric orbital sander.
At 5:30 tonite while I was "turning", Bruce called me to say I needed an interface pad or 2, and was throwing them in with my large order ($12 extra), at no cost to me-, and wanted to explain what was in the shipment. What a nice guy. Cheeeers, Gretch
Click to expand...

I think it is Bruce/Jan Hoover.
 
It was decided a long time ago to not have that type of sub forum.
Some of the reasoning was to not have any advertisers here sway users (although I would support paid sponsorship in the forums and would sign up), some because any opinion is just that. The AAW needs to remain fairly non-biased (originally thought for 501c reasons).

I agree if you have an issue with the company , take it to them. But there are also multiple forums that support the feedback and few users here ( or on any forum) frequent just one.
 
My .02 on an old thread, and a thank you

john lucas said:
Well I haven't bought much wood from Woodcraft but have bought a fair amount from Pete Kekel http://bigmonklumber.com/ Every piece has been marked which is good because my memory sucks and he has such a wide variety.
You do have to consider that the wood products at woodcraft is only one small part of their business and if the wood doesn't come labeled it might be pretty time consuming to do that. I do understand the problem though and it would suck to not know.
I don't think we need a separate category to discuss problems with vendors. It already creaps in from time to time. There is currently a discussion about Delta parts problems. I don't see a problem as long as it stays civil. It would be nice to know if things are factual and not just flamming because of a perceived or actual wronged customer. I worked in retail sales and dealt with customers my whole life and there are definitely some you can't please no matter what you do.
Click to expand...

John, I know this is an old thread so my apologies for sort of resurrecting it, but:

You're right. Some people you just can't please. I'm not in retail but deal with customers daily, and my goal is to treat that person as I myself would like to be treated - or better. I find that most people / businesses, given the chance, WANT to do the right thing and want to take care of the customer. I'm very very new to this forum, but one of the things that strikes me about it is the genuine civility, and the sense of community.

I also believe, for what it's worth, that introducing an opportunity to denigrate a company will start down a path toward that loss of civility not only toward vendors, but to the members here.

And by the way, a thanks for mentioning Big Monk. As a new turner I'm always looking for sources of wood (and as soon as I can operate a chain saw without cutting off my hand I'll have some free stuff 🙂.

I called Pete and placed an order. He's a nice guy and that's a major plus when I decide to buy. Like Vince for sandpaper and so on. So there's my cheers for a couple of business people, and cheers to the members here on this site for being a good group willing to share their knowledge - patiently - with new guys like me.

Mark
 
I would not want a separate selection for cheers and jeers. Mostly because some would use it just to vent, which is not always for any particular reason. This is why there are moderators who can shut down a thread that becomes too much. Relating your experiences is good.

robo hippy
 
I missed this thread when it came out. I vote against having a cheers and jeers section. what happens when a person complains? Tends to be a person who knows the vender who reads about it takes it upon them selves to call the vender and say hey whats up with this? Anyway it can be made right? A discussion then begins on the given thread. In almost every case with the help of others the communication became better between the two parties and the issue got resolved in a positive manner. But if the person did not complain to his peers in the first place a positive resolution seemed far away. That said sometimes its good to let others know of a situation. Others can chime in good or bad. Its rarely a vendor though. They dont live without turners support. I recall a gallery in maybe Kentucky that wanted folks work and sold it but never paid yet still wanted work. So a heads up was given about the gallery. I have no idea the outcome but would have told them no way if I had been contacted. So the person who started that thread as far as I am concerned did us turners a favor. And a few who had the same experiance chimed in to back the guy up. But a seperate category? No need. My 2c.
 
This is about 10 years old now.
Must be a good topic.
The consensus in each of the years is pretty much the same.

A sub forum is not needed. As Kelly said asking a question about a vendors or mentioning a problem can be beneficial if done in respectful manner.
Most of the vendors in the woodturning world are proud of what they contribute and are straight with their customers.

Some of the little guys get behind because no one works when they are sick or traveling.

It is always nice to hear good experiences and a few bad ones. There are plenty of these percolating in the threads.

Al
 
A cheer for great service

I bought that Rikon grinder last week and needed a bushing to mount my CBN wheel. Ordered the bushing on Saturday and got it today! Dave must have literally packed and shipped the order moments after he got it. I couldn't believe that I got it in two days (and I think he's in Oregon or someplace and I"m in Louisiana).

Anyway, as long as this thread exists I thought it would be nice to keep it alive to thank those who go out of their way.
 
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