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Insurance concerns/liabilities for a Turner - I need your help.

Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
126
Likes
1
Location
Roswell, New Mexico
Website
www.chakajo.com
I'm working on a grant, and need some information about insurance. I appreciate any help.

To any turner, amateur or professional, what liability risk should be considered?

Product liability? Say a chair or table breaks, and injures someone or damages something. Maybe a turned sink springs a leak, causing water damage. Does anybody buy insurance for such scenarios, or does the premium outweigh the risk? (I got one quote of $200/mo locally).

Injury liability? If I have someone over to the shop for a lesson, or just some turning fun, and they get injured...

Property insurance? I'm sure most of you know that a business operating in a home is strictly disqualified from coverage under a home owner policy. What are the options for coverage?

I've heard about an insurance program through the AAW, but I don't know what it would cover (or how to get it). Who knows the ins and outs of the plan or can someone point me toward some info?

Thanks for any help you can offer.
 
Unfortunately Charles, you're on your own regarding insurance. The AAW policy only covers AAW sanctioned functions, and chapter group activities. It doesn't provide individual members with business or liability insurance.

The topic has come up on this board several times and if you use the forum search function, you should have little trouble finding prior threads.

If you run a business out of your home, especially in your house, you can easily find yourself in a real fix with your regular underwriters all of a sudden dropping you completely. A hobby wood shop is one thing, but teaching or production activities are far outside the sphere of homeowners' policies. There are companies that will cover you, but the quotes I've seen run between $1,600 and $3,000 per year just on the liability end. Then forget about fire insurance at some kind of affordable price, and THAT can get you in a world of poo with your mortgage company.

What to do? Build a separate shop building in your back yard as far from the house as you reasonably can. That will save your house policy.

I have my law office in my house, and you'd think that wouldn't raise an issue, but I had a nightmare getting coverage just because I've got business machines and client files present. Think what they'll do when you tell them you store solvents and wood chips in the house. 😱

Good luck in your hunting.

m
 
One good piece of advice already. Keep your "business" physically separate from your home. The shop should be specifically exempt from coverage under your homeowners' insurance. You may have to specify that the outbuilding is not covered, since most automatically cover detached structures.

Incorporation may provide fiscal separation as well, but the product liability types will have to weigh in on this. You might also run afoul of zoning regulations if you have a commercial enterprise located on a residential property.

Most of all, remain poor. Any stinker can find a lawyer to litigate for a contingency fee if the prospective prize is large enough. If the pocket to be picked is shallow, they may have to hire someone by the hour with their own money. Big deterrent.
 
Hi Charles,

Here is the link to the info about insurance here on the AAW site.

http://www.woodturner.org/community/pop/insurance_info.html

I do not have this insurance myself, but I thought you might like to read through the details... Maybe you have seen it already. 🙂

Best wishes,
Dave

Exactly what I was looking for, but couldn't seem to find it. I'll submit an application, and see if it will be affordable for me. Anyone have experience with this program?

Thanks, Dave.

I also found this thread - http://http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=2776&highlight=insurance - which has some good info and clarifies the differences between the two insurance programs.
 
I now have insurance through the Hartford. This came about through a post from Bill Grumbine, who also uses them. I got it cheaper than any other policy, and it covers everything from the shop, to shows, to classes, to my DVD.
robo hippy
 
As robohippy mentions, I have insurance from the Hartford. It was not easy to find, and I found it as a result of polling other woodturners privately. Russ Fairfield was a big help with that. My previous insurance company was going to drop me because they discovered (through my own big fat mouth) that I was making and selling DVDs. You would have thought I was storing nuclear waste on site or something the way they carried on. But in the end they did me a favor. I was under insured and overcharged. This company is Selective, just in case anyone runs foul of them. They were whacking me for $1200/yr for inadequate coverage. It had been $800/year for a number of years, but several years ago I got a letter from them telling me that because businesses similar to mine were experiencing loss, they were upping my policy. It did not matter to them that I had not had a claim in the 10 years I had been with them. My current policy is a little over $800/yr and I am adequately covered for all that I am doing.

The Hartford has me set up as a teaching business that also produces products. I am covered for my DVDs, for students, and for traveling to do demos and classes. I am also covered in the even that I actually make something and sell it, whether it be a turning or a piece of furniture. I have liability insurance, fire, theft, all the usual stuff that is needed.

The AAW policy is fine for someone who is a hobbyist and who just wants to cover his or her rear end. It is not really designed to cover someone who is actually in business. I know that because I tried to get into the program - twice. DO NOT listen to ANYONE who will tell you to give the minimum answers in order to get a policy. It is a false security. You need to be as honest and compete as possible with the insurance company. Otherwise, you will find that you are not really insured for something you thought you were. I was given this advice (be quiet and tell the minimum) from someone well connected with the AAW program. But if I had done that, I would have been paying money for no real coverage. An insurance company will not pay on claims generated by something that is not in your policy. And, it does no good to pay for $10,000 of coverage on tools if you have $50,000 of tools in your shop. If it burns down, you will be out $40,000.

But on to coverage. You need liability for products, you need liability for injury if someone is visiting your shop, you need coverage for theft, fire, and possibly flood, depending on where you live. You may need coverage if you teach or make videos (a small group, but there nonetheless) and you may need coverage for off site (out of your shop) work. This may cover you against damage in a customer's home, or just if you manage to throw a piece of work off the lathe at a demo, although that may be part of your general liability. You may need or want coverage for tools when traveling. It does not take long to fill up a tool box with several thousand dollars worth of tools. It only takes a few seconds for some loser to lift them out of your vehicle.

Consider some of your products. I called to inquire about a policy with a company, and before I even got a call back, an underwriter was checking out my website. He or she discovered a picture of a child's bed, which I made over 20 years ago for my own daughters. He (or she) freaked out and told the agent no way would they insure me. Furniture for children is like sunlight to vampires as far as they are concerned. It did not matter that that was the only children's bed I had ever made. I was on the forbidden list. That picture is gone now. 😉

Be complete and honest with the agent, and then make sure you read the policy when it comes. I failed to do that completely, and it was much later that I discovered that I was not insured in any way for my building! 😱 I would have been covered for my tools, papers, etc, but the building would have been a complete loss. My agent forgot that I had mentioned my shop was in a building that needed coverage. And I forgot to check up on him. None of that would have been taken into account if the place burned. Remember, insurance companies are out to make money. They do not make money paying out on claims, and they are not there to make sure you are completely insured. That is your job.

Good luck with it, and if I can answer any other questions, I will be glad to try and do so.
 
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