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Ideal shop

A

AVDaubar

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Oct 31, 2008
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Hello all,

Looking for some wisdom on what to look for in an ideal shop. I've been turning for 2 years and my wife and I are starting a search for our first home. I live in New England and have concerns with heat and rust.

I'd prefer a walk-in basement but will likely be in a detached garage. How worried should I be with summer humidity and harsh winters damaging machinery and tools? Has anyone here done a retrofit of a garage or shed with insulation, heating, etc? How much power should I be looking at (lathe, bandsaw, air compressor, chainsaw, dust filter, chopsaw, vac, etc)? Anything else I should be looking for?

Thanks for any help
 
In answer to your questions....... Yes.

Insulation is a must in New England. Heat is dependent on the size and location of the shop. I have a 20' x 40' shop that I heat with a non-vented propane space heater that works great for me, doesn't mean it will for you.

Lots of outlets, everywhere, even if you don't think you'll need them. I have them on the walls and ceiling plus a 5' metal wall strip with 8 or 10 outlets over my bench where I engrave, carve, use the dremel and have a burning unit.

IF you can, put in lots of windows, there's nothing like natural sunshine.

Good luck and have fun!
 
shop

I live in the icebox of the nation..so I'd say, If you can get it in a basement (dry one) or in a lower level of a split level, I would do so. Using the house heat saves many dollars come heating season (and the ecology) and the lower humidity will help save the rusting on your tools.
 
Ditto what Ruth said. I have a 120/240V, 100A panelboard that serves my shop and pole barn. I have outlets about every 5 feet along the walls (4' above the floor), and use plug strips at each of them to provide extra outlets. That seems to work for me.

You asked about the "ideal" shop. Everyone will probably tell ya, think twice as big as might think you need, then double it again. They fill up fast.

The best and easiest arrangement is a stand alone building. Basements are ok, but the effort required to avoid migrating dust throughout the house just isn't worth it, in my opinion.

I live in SE Michigan. The shop is super insulated, double pane windows, etc. Winters are easy...just a small space heater to keep it above freezing, then a bigger heater to get it toasty when I want to work in it. Ruth's ventless propane is a good solution for dry winters...it adds moisture to the air as a byproduct of combustion.
 
Basement is the best, because you get to re-use any heat you pump into it. You'll want to make the floor softer in the shop, of course, and you might, in addition to other considerations mentioned, want to get a place away from the main dust area to run a dehumidifier. That way you can keep your wood dry even when the climate isn't.

Garages , once insulated and heated, cease to be garages. If you go that route, you'll want to get good air circulation to help you keep ahead of condensation. Cold iron and hot breath (or exhaust, if you're using it as a garage) are a bad combination, so blow the air around to keep 'em dry and warm things up in advance.
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone.

What's a good way to keep dust from migrating through a house from a basement shop?
 
My first wood shop was in a basement. Big pain to move things up and down the stairs. It was fairly insulated though. Second shop was a small 2 car garage (400 sq. ft.) Major problems with keeping dust, noise, and finish fumes out of the house. Third shop is 24 x 36 pole barn. Insulated and took out the roll up door, and put in a double wide man door and windows. Had it wired with a 100 amp panel, and dedicated 220 circuits for table saw, compressor, dust collector, big bandsaw, and one circuit for jointer, drum sander, or planer (220, and on wheels). The thing I most underestimated was the amount of room I needed for wood storage, which is about half of the shop. I still track shavings into the house, but not as much as before. I may get around to putting windows in the side walls eventually. They were not originally included because the guy who built the shop did hot rods and didn't want any one looking in. I would also like to add a good multi speed ventilation fan in the back wall for air conditioning (days may get up into the 90's, but nights go down to mid 50's) in the summer, and the annual clean up the shop with the leaf blower ritual.

robo hippy
 
I've had 2 basement shops. What I did was pressurize the stairwell. I put a door at the bottom of the steps, there already was one at the top. I put a small fan in to pull air from the house into the stairwell. I don't know for sure if it was the fan or the 2 doors that kept the dust down but it did work. The biggest problems was keeping the return duct from the heating clean. I put 2 filters in the downstairs return duct. Each time I changed filters which was about monthly I would rotate the rear one forward and put the new one in the back.
 
Shop

I live in New England, 5yrs ago built a stand alone shop. A work shop can never be to big, but as I wanted to keep it heated all the time reather then just when I work in there I kept it to a mid size of 24ft x 16ft. Built it just like a house with full insulation in the walls covered with drywall. put baffles and insulation and drywall on the inside of the roof to.
It has its own fuse panel from which I get 110v & 220v power.
I have electric outlets to code which work fine, I have muti strip power outlets attached to the front of bench legs and pluged into the wall outlet, this increses the number of outlets and makes it easier to plug and unplug cords.
For heat I considered differant heating methords, and setteled on electric base board heaters for the following reasons
1, they take up very little room. Big deal in a shop of that size.
2, zero maintenance
3, I do not have to feed them fuel, just pay the electric bill.
4, Easy to control with a thermostat, (set it and forget it).
They may cost a little more to run than other heating methords but they work the best for me.
I made double doors for moving large items in and out should I need to.
Sometimes I could use more room but the size is adequate most of the time.
Before I built the shop I worked in one side of our double garage.
Having a deadicated work shop is awersome, best thing we did for my woodturning hobbie/obsession.
Nigel
 
robo hippy said:
.....and the annual clean up the shop with the leaf blower ritual.

robo hippy
Click to expand...

Yep, that made me lol.....! I usually blow out the shop real good with compressed air from the compressor......it's a summer ritual with me. Both access doors, plus the big garage door is opened for this.

One thing I WISH I HAD DONE when I was building my current shop is.......paint the darn walls white! I didn't, and I was told about the lighting advantages of white walls after the fact. Now, it would be a major effort to do it......sure wish I had!

Another thing that I DID DO, and have been thankful for, is have outlets on the ceiling.......both 110v and 240v. The advantage to this is hanging plug-ins that don't get in the darn way.....and all machinery remains plugged in ALL THE TIME.

ooc
 
Some good advice above about insulation and wiring. Am in my fourth shop, all well insulated, with "built-in" window style heater/AC unit, 100 amp service to the shop, multiple 110 and 220 outlets around the walls at 4' elevation and in the ceiling, dedicated 220 circuits for welder, AC unit, ceiling outlets, and a couple others. Did my own wiring, so got what I wanted and saved a bunch of $$. With good insulation the heating and cooling cost is surprisingly low.

Edit: Like Odie, always white walls and ceiling. Wanted to do the floor w/ epoxy/urethane but ran out of $$.
 
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I got a question about snow on your house and the workshop, how do you remove the snow ? you can move this post if it is in the wrong spot
 
If your wife is like mine, every time I flipped the switch on the table saw or lathe dust found its way into the house. My basement shop was encased in 6 mill plastic, duct work shut off in the shop, everything was sealed but dust still got up into the house. It was close to divorce,haha, so I built a separate building with a bathroom, heat,all the outlets a person could ask for, 20 by 30 feet and still it is too small.
I need a cot and a refrigerator and I will have a place to stay when my wife gets tired of me staying out there, funny isn't it. Gary
 
ray hampton said:
I got a question about snow on your house and the workshop, how do you remove the snow ? you can move this post if it is in the wrong spot
Click to expand...

Howdy Ray......

I don't recall ever seeing anyone remove the snow. If you have a sloping roof, and you heat your home/shop, the snow will be gone.....the areas where the sun is limited, being the last places to melt. I believe some businesses with flat topped industrial buildings have removed the snow.....it's a weight concern for them. As long as the roof is flat, removing snow is a relatively easy thing to do......requires no more effort than if it were on the sidewalk. Nobody really gets excited about snow on the roof......unless there is an exceptionally large amount of snowfall.......but, Al Gore assures you that won't happen. 😱

ooc
 
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I'll chime in here.
I have an attached 2 car garage that hasn't had a car in it for years. It has an insulated double door, all walls are insulated and the ceiling too. There is a 9" duct off the heater that plumbs into the ceiling with no return in the shop (very important). I would love to see a duct that only allows air to flow one way so dust and other contaminants (sprayed finishes and cigar smoke, not at the same time) don't get into the system and blow around the house.

Even though it is a large 2 car with 9 foot ceilings (don't go lower or your giant bandsaw won't fit), and most wood is stored in a 12x12 shed (with exotics in the spare bedrooms) I could use double the size, and a bigger electrical service. I have one kiln that we stole the dryer circuit (60 amps) for (we have a gas dryer). But still only have 60 amps for the shop. You trade plugs for the table saw (mostly used as a table) welder and soon, large compressor. Lathe, giant bandsaw, dust cyclone and metal mill all use 220. For 110 you will hate running cords around the shop. But there isn't enough space for the spraying, glass word, metal work and woodturning.

Then you have to think about lighting. LOTS AND LOTS of lights. I would highly recommend going with HO or VHO fluorescents or at least solid state ballasts that won't hum and flicker in lower ambient temperatures. Having mirrored reflectors is a big plus too as well as white walls and ceiling (without the darn popcorn spray).

Don't underestimate the needs for a small fridge and some type of internet access there either. I end up looking at quite a few tech manuals during the week related to the adventures in the afore mentioned hobbies.

And put in a smoke alarm with carbon monoxide sensor.
 
I think the ideal shop would either be a stand alone shop in a temperate climate with lots of windows and doors, or a cave if your in the colder climates. A cave would be a constant temperature which would be easy heat or cool. If it's a dry cave it would be a constant humidity. If you put a good solid door on the front it would be robbery proof, and talk about fireproof, at least as long as you had a fireproof storage for chemicals. You would never disturb the neighbors with noise, Heck wood might even last longer before it starts to check since there's no sun and no wind. Bats would take care of the mosquitoes. Tornado proof, and if the country goes to hell you still have the oldest shelter known to man.
 
As a New Englander (about 10 mi from NBHowe apparently😉) and working in a detached building I'd recommend a wooden floor over the concrete base. Cold 'crete floors will make your legs ache in the winter especially.
If that's not practical, Farmtek makes a heavy duty rubber floor mat meant to be used in horse stalls that is far more dense than the ones available in most big box stores. They cost a bit more but they interlock if needed (one covers the entire length of my nova lathe) and it's a BIG comfort on my feet and legs.

Painting walls white as Odie suggests is a BIG deal for lighting purposes. I didn't believe how much difference it would make until I saw it.

As others have said, don't skimp on the electricals and insulate thoroughly. Planning dust collection in advance will also make your life (and health) much easier. Don't skimp on dust collection.

Humidity for me in Southeastern MA is fairly high in summer but keeping on top of things with WD-40 and maybe some food safe silicone spray on the slidey bits will keep all metal surfaces rust free.


Jim
 
Lots of insulation! My house has a ton of insulation and my heating bill is a lot less than newer homes. I would recommend a basement if you can find a house with one. That way you don't have to trek across the yard in bad weather to work. Dust in the house? My wife told of a gimmick she saw on a TV show recently. They, whoever they were, attached a pleated furnace filter to a box fan with a bungee cord and turned it on high just before starting to make sawdust. I'm going to try it, nothing to lose except a lot of work cleaning the garage. Dust is not a problem in the downstairs den and upstairs.
 
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Just want to thank everyone. Lots to think about and I really appreciate this information.

If anyone has pictures to share that'd be great too.
 
White ceiling too

Hi, I am north of you in NH. I have a stand alone 24x24 shop building with walk out basement that has a gravel floor. When I bought it the walls were insulated but not the ceiling of the main floor or the ceiling of the basement. I insulated both, added an insulated door and a vented Reznor propane ceiling mount heater rated for 36x36. It has worked well for 8 yrs.

What I just did last summer was to cover the ceiling insulation with strand board (on sale at HD) and then paint that white. It has made a huge difference with lighting especially during the winter months.

I have a 2 layer 3/4" Plywood floor that is great, I would not want to be on concrete and if I was I would put in one of the new systems they have for adding a wood floor over the concrete.

Surface rust from summer humidity was an issue until I added the better insulation and got more serious about tool maintenance, WD40 and Paste Wax, now it is no big deal.

If you look at properties with existing outbuildings or garages that you would like to use as a shop take a good look at the electrical panel and make sure you have 240 volts and preferably 200 amps or that you are prepared to have it added. Several folks have posted on this forum that they have backed away from certain lathes because it was too expensive to add the electrical service. I have a separate panel for the shop but my older General table saw is still at 110 and I can "dim the lights" in the house if I bite a bit too aggressively into 10/4 Oak. As I get more serious with my shop time I am contemplating having the power company bring in a separate drop for the shop but in my case I will have to pay for second pole.

-Frank
 
dust migrating

AVDaubar said:
Thanks for the replies, everyone.

What's a good way to keep dust from migrating through a house from a basement shop?
Click to expand...
I have used a "house" shop for 25+ yrs. A door on the room. Great dust collection i.e. dust collector with uumph, a dust collector on ceiling (or two depending on size of shop) I vacuum myself when I leave.
 
John T., I use the ole "20 inch box fan with furnace filter" trick, mounted behind the lathe spindle, low speed for turning and high for sanding. Imperfect of course but works remarkably well, esp. considering the minimal cost.

Also have a small DC w/ 1 micron filter canister that serves the TS, BS, and 6x48 belt sander, and an extra furnace filter in front of the heater/AC unit that helps keep the AC coil clean.
 
Love the photos of him pushing modest snowfalls off the panels. One of the reasons why solar isn't worth the effort for folks like myself. Use the same south-facing wall for windows with tight curtains, and you can gather all kinds of heat on a bright day. The brightest tend to be the coldest as well. When the sun's not shining, close up tight. Summer sun slants require a bit of planning on the overhang, but the "system" works.

I've come to think that a bit of tolerance of overheating is more economical than trying to keep things even. Gather heat while the sun shines and let the floor and walls give it back later.
 
Shop in PA

I have a 13'x24' shop on end of a 2 car garage. Way to small going to add another 20' to the end of it. I pulled a 60 amp sub panel to the garage, too small go with at least 100 amp. Insulated walls and ceiling with OSB board on wall and ceiling,painted white works well!
Floor is concrete I used plastic 12"x!2" tiles from a box store on floor works well once you get used to the clip clap of walking on it.
Heated with propane forced air vented ceiling mounted heater, works well!
All in all go bigger and more electric then you think you need!

G
 
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