how to cut crotch wood?

[Charlie Knighton]

how to cut crotch wood was a topic on another board, i was curious myself, if one wants to make vase or hollow form how to best cut crotch wood????
the other board is not getting many responses 😕 😀

 

[GeorgeH]

I typically cut it down the center, through the pith, so that I end up with two pieces which are both "Y" shaped. I do that because I want to be able to either remove the pith or control it's position in the finished work. I've never tried turning it from the end grain with the pith left intact which would of course require cutting it across the grain and just using the heart of the crotch itself.

 

[George Guadiane]

how to cut crotch wood was a topic on another board, i was curious myself, if one wants to make vase or hollow form how to best cut crotch wood????
the other board is not getting many responses 😕 😀

For a vase or hollow form, I cut the top, just below the bark straight across, to see if there is bark inclusion and to get an idea of how big a square I can get out of the space between the pith lines.
Once I know the potential diameter of a blank, I try to cut the length to end up with a "golden rectangle" plus an inch or two for tenons and mistakes.
I cut that length and look for bark and pith lines...
Then I start trimming the "bottom" where the pith lines will be, to try and eliminate the cracking potential... NOW, I have a blank that comes from between the pith lines.
The reason I like this morsel is because you get sap and heart woods and killer curl is in that area. When I start to turn a taper, the curl comes out in a pronounced and dramatic way. I think a cherry piece I that did this way is in my gallery.

 

[David Somers]

Similar to George, I like to turn crotch wood End grain if I can. I especially like having a wild edge to the bowl and am getting braver about working with them. Did I mention I turn in a medieval suit of armor when I work on something like this??? <grin>

This piece had 4 branches on it (you see one of them in this image) and it had a nice spalting to it as well.

Dave

 

[dkulze]

I don't have one to show right now but I've turned vases multiple times by cutting a cylinder right out of the center of the crotch, just as if I had halved it down the pith and was making bowl blanks. This will include both piths but will also give a swath of really cool figure across the top of the vase. If you turn it to a consistant thickness and anchorseal the outside then let dry, cracks are minimized.

Or, of course, you can turn it to finish thickness and let it move while drying. Usually cool results ensue.

Note that you WILL have small cracking in the piths most of the time but it can be contained with superglue if caught early and incorporated with sanding and carving if not.

Dietrich.

 

[waltben]

Crotch Wood

The problem with crotch wood is you can't really tell by just looking how far into the crotch the bark inclusion goes. There's also the issue of the occasional pebble or whatever that somehow got into the crotch and the tree grew over. I've had two very promising ones go into the scrap pile because I didn't have enough trunk left (I wasn't the person who cut them).

I think you've got to have a minimum of three times the diameter down from where you can visually see the crotch has ended, and then at least a foot or so above for each branch. The more you have to work with the better chance you'll have for getting something worthwhile.

Now, a vase or hollow form from crotch wood is another thing. I guess you'll have to select one or the other branchs and follow it to cut out a blank. I've never tried making one of those forms from that kind of wood as I love the feather figure that I can get into a bowl or platter from halving one and then turning.

 

[George Guadiane]

For a vase or hollow form, I cut the top, just below the bark straight across, to see if there is bark inclusion and to get an idea of how big a square I can get out of the space between the pith lines.
Once I know the potential diameter of a blank, I try to cut the length to end up with a "golden rectangle" plus an inch or two for tenons and mistakes.
I cut that length and look for bark and pith lines...
Then I start trimming the "bottom" where the pith lines will be, to try and eliminate the cracking potential... NOW, I have a blank that comes from between the pith lines.
The reason I like this morsel is because you get sap and heart woods and killer curl is in that area. When I start to turn a taper, the curl comes out in a pronounced and dramatic way. I think a cherry piece I that did this way is in my gallery.

This is what I got when I used this method:

 

[Bill Boehme]

Nice chatoyance, George. I have not tried a HF from crotch wood yet, but HF turnings do need to be turned end grain to minimize warping and to maximize showing the grain.

For bowls, I cut the wood similar to what nuturner does and cut it through the center to wind up with two Y shaped pieces. If you turn the bowl with the bottom towards the pith side, you will have the greatest amount of figure showing in the middle of the bowl, but with a slightly greater tendency to crack or warp. If you turn it with the rim side towards the pith, you will usually lose most of the really wild figure, but it may be less prone to crack and warp. It is up to you -- I prefer to go for maximum show on the figure -- my reasoning being: why turn highly figured wood if you are going to turn away the most highly figured part.

Bill

 

[Charlie Knighton]

maple crotchwood

i have this piece of maple crotchwood, it has a indention between the forks and has been singed or burned on one size

the owner said the indention kept fiilling with water when it rained and he lived on a crest of some foothills (not sure if indentions continues and is a inclusion)

question: do i somehow try to include the indention or cut below it???
any other suggestions??? hopefully the wood is not cracked from the heat of burning! 😕 😀

 

[Steve Worcester]

Since the feather of the branch intersection doesn't always run real deep, if it is small, I usually cut to both sides of the pith of the brachnes and down. If it is large, you can cut dead down the center of the piths and get a bit wider swath of figure and less issues with cracking at the pith.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Since the feather of the branch intersection doesn't always run real deep, if it is small, I usually cut to both sides of the pith of the brachnes and down. If it is large, you can cut dead down the center of the piths and get a bit wider swath of figure and less issues with cracking at the pith.

Do you have any pictures or sketches to show what you are describing -- I didn't follow your description. Also, explain what you mean by feather -- whenever I have asked someone in my club about what they mean by feather, they just do a lot of hand flailing as though that will make it clearer. I haven't pressed the matter because I was concerned that the hand signals might progress into something universally understood, yet not necesarily helpful.

Bill

 

[John Nicholas]

feather

Do you have any pictures or sketches to show what you are describing -- I didn't follow your description. Also, explain what you mean by feather

Bill, Feather is a description of the figure showing between the pith lines. Look up this page to ByGeorge's hollow form. He describes it as curl.

Steve is describing a crotch cut that will end up with two halves the you can turn a platter or bowl from.

Here is a platter rough out I did from a year ago.
http://www.woodturner.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2331

The bark inclusion shows up very well. The feather in this piece shows between the bark inclusion up to the pith line. If you look closely you will see two darker bands. They start about 5:00 and then split one ends up at 10:00 and the other about 1:30. Those bands match the pith lines. The 5:00 position was the bottom of the crotch. The bands split and end up at the two top branches.

When Steve describes the cut, imaging the Capitol Letter 'Y' think of it the size of your crotch and about 4 inches thick. Steve's description to cut through the pith, means cutting your "Y" into two "Y"s 2 inches thick.

Remember to follow the pith lines. You may end up with two even pieces, you may not.

Does this help?

John 🙂

 

[mjhausenflu]

Hey guys,

Thanks for addressing this. Not too many replies on the other forum. That was my original post and I talked with Steve yesteday and he helped some. It is something he needed to see to answer but the picture of the maple demonstrated what I am looking for.

So, if I have this right, cut the two trunks off right at the V and turn it end grain? I have cut several others right down the two piths and got the feather look. I will make platters out of those but am challenged to see how the HF comes out.


Matt

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill, Feather is a description of the figure showing between the pith lines. Look up this page to ByGeorge's hollow form. He describes it as curl.......

I have attached a sketch of what I think I understand, but I may be way off base. Let me know.

......think of it the size of your crotch and about 4 inches thick.......

Hey, lets keep it clean 😀.



Bill

 

[George Guadiane]

I have attached a sketch of what I think I understand, but I may be way off base. Let me know.

Hey, lets keep it clean 😀.

Bill

The rotation may be off (but you can't rotate the picture, now can you), but the location is PERFECT.
One thing to consider is that the bigger the "crotch" (don't GO there), the better the chances that there will be a bark inclusion, but it has been worth the effort and chains to look for these morsels.

 

[mjhausenflu]

That picture is great but what do you do if the piths in the upper section are close together not leaving much to take out for that vase.

What would you do then?

 

[Charlie Knighton]

sanding the feather

i believe i read somewhere that one should spray the feather with sanding sealer before sanding otherwise you get a dirty look from the different colors of dust i had this problem with some crotchwood black walnut ( also black walnut crotchwood has chambered pith, which is another thing altogether) 😀

thanks everyone

 

[George Guadiane]

That picture is great but what do you do if the piths in the upper section are close together not leaving much to take out for that vase.

What would you do then?

Start with a different crotch 😀

 

[Bill Boehme]

The rotation may be off (but you can't rotate the picture, now can you), but the location is PERFECT.
One thing to consider is that the bigger the "crotch" (don't GO there), the better the chances that there will be a bark inclusion, but it has been worth the effort and chains to look for these morsels.

I thank you very much for the help. It has been much better than the flailing hands explanation. I did suspect that the vase needed to be rotated 90 deg about the vertical axis, but when I tried to rotate the vase, it just turned into a thin knife edge image when viewed from the side -- dang those two dimensional images.

Bill

 

[George Guadiane]

Do you have any pictures or sketches to show what you are describing -- I didn't follow your description. Also, explain what you mean by feather --

The picture is not my work, but would be an example of crotch "feather." The curl has a feather like array.

whenever I have asked someone in my club about what they mean by feather, they just do a lot of hand flailing as though that will make it clearer. I haven't pressed the matter because I was concerned that the hand signals might progress into something universally understood, yet not necesarily helpful.

Bill

I don't EVEN want to get into that.

 

[George Guadiane]

question: do i somehow try to include the indention or cut below it???
any other suggestions??? hopefully the wood is not cracked from the heat of burning! 😕 😀

I have been looking at the pictures you included, for a while now...
If you are feeling "brave," and/or up to the hollowing task, the wood offers an interesting opportunity. If you did a hollow form through that opening (you could make it a little larger) you could have a bark edge on the INSIDE of the rim. Can't do that too often.
If I were going to try it, I would first cut off the tops of the fork, then square the remains around the hole, trying to cut out the pith and removing the bark.
If there is no bark visible at that point, cut the bottom parts off till you have what looks like it will make a good form and a spiggot.
Turn it round between center then turn a spiggot/tenon on the bottom, turn the basic shape, chuck the piece and start hollowing.
I would be really interested in seeing the outcome!

 

[fstepanski]

Drawing is crude, however should give you some ideas. Things I've leared about crotch wood.
- You can't guarentee a beautiful pattern
- The pattern when there is usually close to the piths
- Think about orientation, the beautiful crotch pattern is near the pith
- Movement is difficult to predict
- When you hit it right, the piece looks GREAT.

Happy turning

Frank

 

[Charlie Knighton]

its a learning curve, to advance i must 1st attempt 😀