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How often do you sharpen on average?

R

Roger Chandler

Joined
Nov 26, 2009
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Rockingham, Virginia
Hello all,

Out of a desire to learn from those more accomplished than myself, I am trying to get a sense of how often on average the turners on this forum stop to sharpen a bowl gouge, during a project. I realize the abrasive characteristics of different woods will dictate this to some degree, but overall, in your experience, what is your requirement to get good results, and eliminate tool marks?

Also, do you find higher speeds help eliminate tool marks? Elimination of tool marks is what I am trying to accomplish. The turners here that have posted for the most part do beautiful work, and it is my intention to join in that group, so all pointers are solicited and gratefully acknowledged!
 
It's kind of hard to say but I would say about once on the outside and once or twice on the inside for 10" bowls. I use the new Thompson gouges and can turn the whole bowl without sharpening. I sharpen because I have more control with a very sharp tool and the cuts are cleaner requiring less sanding.
Not having tool marks is a function of how fast the wood is moving past the tool and how fast the tool is pushed into the wood. If the wood is moving slow then the tool needs to move slow. If it's fast then the tool can move faster and get the same quality of cut. I can get the same cut at slow speed or high speed. I often demonstrate this with new students.
The biggest difference in lathe speed is how smooth you can move the tool through the arc you are cutting. It's very hard to move in a nice smooth arc when you are moving the tool very slowly. So it's kind of a game. Run the rpm's fast enough to allow you to move the tool at a smooth controlled rate, but not fast enough to be dangerous.
 
I sharpen a tool when it starts to lose its edge. I have no idea how often that is, but it varies all over the place depending on the wood and whether it is green or dry. I had a piece of green walnut last year that required sharpening about every 15 seconds if not sooner -- and I am not exaggerating one bit. I was making a tool handle and was finally able to complete it, but it was the most difficult piece of wood that I have ever turned.

Tool marks are an indication of two things -- the quality of a sharpening job and how well the tool is used.
 
Bill and John have a couple of good posts.........truth there! 😀

It's hard to give a generic answer to the question, because the specific influences can be varied and very broad......species, moisture content, grain variations, burl, spalting, and a host of other things can impede a good clean cut, or dull the tool.

Generally, I stop frequently and inspect how well the cut is progressing. If I'm not satisfied, I sharpen. Sometimes, I sharpen more, sometimes less.

If a freshly sharpened tool doesn't give the kind of results I had hoped for, then I look for other reasons why that's so. ALL turners get to the point where they have to rely on sanding to finish the job, but they ALL seek the best, most clean cut to minimize that necessity. It will take some water under your bridge to know when that point is reached.

You can show new turners a lot of things based on personal experience, but you just can't teach them experience!

It would be wise to understand that not all turners agree on everything. They might be getting good results, but they can come to those good results by a variety of methods.......even philosophy can play a part here, but I'm getting into a whole 'nuther realm of understanding.......😉

ooc
 
Bill's comment about the black walnut reminds me of a theory that I have been pondering for a couple of years about that wood. When green, it really seems to dull all my tools: chainsaw, bandsaw, gouges, scrapers.

High speed steel does a better job of keeping an edge than carbon steel. The powder metals with cryo treatment are better than HSS. On small bowls, I will sharpen after a couple of bowls depending on the wood. I do tend to do all the work with scrapers, then use the gouge for the finish cut, then back to the scraper for a shear cut to get out any tool marks. Anything to help cut down on sanding time. Scraper edges seem to last the same as a gouge edge. Mostly I use the burr straight from the grinder. I have tried the burnished burr with a triangle burnisher, and it last as long, but it is 2 extra steps to make, and I don't seem to get any extra benefits with it. A lightly burred edge is superior for finish shear cuts with a scraper. Some days I can get a cut with the gouge that needs no touch up. Mostly it is relaxing and moving with my body rather than with my arms. Still have trouble getting that message from my head to my body. If I haven't turned any bowls for a week or so, my technique can be sloppy.

As to speeds, I like it high. I probably am at 2000 or so for 8 to 10 inch bowls, and as fast as it will go without vibrating on bigger bowls. This is not for every one, and I NEVER stand in the line of fire. At higher speeds, it just feels better, and I can't explain it any better than that. The right speed is what feels good for you, and with more experience, speeds tend to go up.

robo hippy
 
I sharpen when things seem dull - when I feel an increase in cutting pressure or see crumbles rather than curls produced. Means once or more when roughing exteriors because I don't clean up the bark very well prior to roughing, once for hogging the inside, then dry the piece. Corrosive acid woods like that black walnut will take away the edge a bit faster, requiring an additional trip to the wheel. Maple never does.

On dry stuff it'll be each tool prior to use, normally. I generally use three or four tools on a bowl, so I just batch, and seldom have to return to the grinder. Exotic alloys are wasted on me because of the way I touch up prior to each use. On the other hand, my carbon steel tools are still with me and working well after thousands of trips to the stone.

Glad to see that someone else recognizes that speed is not the solution to smooth. Not safe, either. If, by tool marks you mean ridging, that's a function of sweep and reference. A broad sweep gouge with a constant bevel angle will reference where it's going on perhaps a quarter inch width of wood. A narrow sweep on less than half that. Even the ground back wings which attempt to give you a broad sweep gouge normally change angle, making it difficult to keep a good reference as you cut. You have to adjust the angle manually, and each time you do, you can develop a ridge.

If by tool marks you mean bruises in the wood caused by pressing the bevel - they show up as light rings - the answer is to get a better fit of the tool in the radius of the turn you're making, or press less where things aren't tight. Once again, I use the broad radius gouges. Means I can cut and reference broadly, steepen the skew angle and reference narrowly, or even increase the sharpness/clearance angle until I'm scraping like the Hippy.

The wood will tell you how it prefers to be cut. When it starts to fight or drag, you have to change your angles. When it starts to crumble wood, you have to sharpen.
 
Bevel angle?

MichaelMouse said:
I sharpen when things seem dull - when I feel an increase in cutting pressure or see crumbles rather than curls produced. Means once or more when roughing exteriors because I don't clean up the bark very well prior to roughing, once for hogging the inside, then dry the piece. Corrosive acid woods like that black walnut will take away the edge a bit faster, requiring an additional trip to the wheel. Maple never does.

On dry stuff it'll be each tool prior to use, normally. I generally use three or four tools on a bowl, so I just batch, and seldom have to return to the grinder. Exotic alloys are wasted on me because of the way I touch up prior to each use. On the other hand, my carbon steel tools are still with me and working well after thousands of trips to the stone.

Glad to see that someone else recognizes that speed is not the solution to smooth. Not safe, either. If, by tool marks you mean ridging, that's a function of sweep and reference. A broad sweep gouge with a constant bevel angle will reference where it's going on perhaps a quarter inch width of wood. A narrow sweep on less than half that. Even the ground back wings which attempt to give you a broad sweep gouge normally change angle, making it difficult to keep a good reference as you cut. You have to adjust the angle manually, and each time you do, you can develop a ridge.

If by tool marks you mean bruises in the wood caused by pressing the bevel - they show up as light rings - the answer is to get a better fit of the tool in the radius of the turn you're making, or press less where things aren't tight. Once again, I use the broad radius gouges. Means I can cut and reference broadly, steepen the skew angle and reference narrowly, or even increase the sharpness/clearance angle until I'm scraping like the Hippy.

The wood will tell you how it prefers to be cut. When it starts to fight or drag, you have to change your angles. When it starts to crumble wood, you have to sharpen.
Click to expand...

Hello Micheal,

In light of this post [great info, by the way] what is your opinion on the best bevel angle on a bowl gouge with swept back sides? You stated that "pressing the bevel will show up as light rings" - that is a lot of what I am experiencing, and sweeping through the "arc" I find that at times the tool wants to come out of the cut, where I have been riding the bevel, and I am wondering if I need to perhaps make the bevel angle a little more shallow?
 
arc too shallow, or bevel angle on gouge?

john lucas said:
It's kind of hard to say but I would say about once on the outside and once or twice on the inside for 10" bowls. I use the new Thompson gouges and can turn the whole bowl without sharpening. I sharpen because I have more control with a very sharp tool and the cuts are cleaner requiring less sanding.
Not having tool marks is a function of how fast the wood is moving past the tool and how fast the tool is pushed into the wood. If the wood is moving slow then the tool needs to move slow. If it's fast then the tool can move faster and get the same quality of cut. I can get the same cut at slow speed or high speed. I often demonstrate this with new students.
The biggest difference in lathe speed is how smooth you can move the tool through the arc you are cutting. It's very hard to move in a nice smooth arc when you are moving the tool very slowly. So it's kind of a game. Run the rpm's fast enough to allow you to move the tool at a smooth controlled rate, but not fast enough to be dangerous.
Click to expand...


John,

Since you are a turning instructor, you can probably help me with this. I have at times had the gouge want to come out of the cut when I have been riding the bevel as I sweep through the arc when transitioning from the side to the bottom [flat] part on the inside of a bowl.

Is this the result of a wrong bevel angle on my tool, or is it something else? Your post has been most helpful, and I feel like I am getting info that will help me get better results.

One other thing, could this be caused by a too shallow an arc being started when I began hollowing out the inside?

Thanks for your time!
 
Roger Chandler said:
Hello Micheal,

In light of this post [great info, by the way] what is your opinion on the best bevel angle on a bowl gouge with swept back sides? You stated that "pressing the bevel will show up as light rings" - that is a lot of what I am experiencing, and sweeping through the "arc" I find that at times the tool wants to come out of the cut, where I have been riding the bevel, and I am wondering if I need to perhaps make the bevel angle a little more shallow?
Click to expand...

You're levering your way out of the cut. One of the big problems early on with the newly named "bowl" gouge which replaced the more expensive long and strong. One of the earliest "fixes" was something similar to what you see second from the bottom here http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml or on the "detail" gouge Ellsworth picture. If the metal is thicker at the very center of the gouge than slightly off center, you can get the heel bruises. Since the heel is a fulcrum, it levers your edge out of the cut.

Bevel angles are a personal thing. If you're going to try and turn the corner with a cylindrical pattern, you can relieve the heel or roll the gouge to get into the longer bevel either side of center. I avoid the whole thing by using a different gouge, but I think most folks here will tell you that the roll with drop of the handle is the way to go. I don't like it, but if you use it, you might want to consider shorter wings on smaller gouges.
 
Two of the same

Using a sharp tool on your last couple of passes will improve the turned surface.

Instead of one bowl gouge have two which are the same size, model and grind. Start with both of the tools sharp. When the cutting is not as it was there are three likely reasons:

1. Your technique has changed (and isn't working as well)
2. The wood has changed, perhaps a dirty inclusion
3. The tool is dull

If you switch tools to the known sharp tool you can eliminate one of the three likely reasons. This two tool approach will quickly let you get a feel for knowing when your tool is getting dull.
 
Roger If you are experiencing the "bruising rings", this is caused by the bottom edge of the bevel. Not the cutting edge. It is a sharp corner and if you hesitate any in your feed rate it will leave a mark. I grind this off. My gouges have about 2 to 4 bevels below the main bevel. Each one is ground back free hand after the initial grind. I do this go get rid of material, so that it is easier to hone the edge if I need to, also the short bevel will let you ride down a bowl with less friction, and if you kind of radius the bottom edge it also prevents the bruising.
 
Sharpen when you think you need to sharpen, sharpen to free your mind, sharpen to distract you, sharpen when the tool is dull. You can't over sharpen and it is difficult for you to tell someone when the tool is dull if you aren't using it.
Also, it isn't about speed, it is about tool control. You can turn full speed, or super slow, it is about rubbing the bevel, keeping it in contact with the wood, and keeping it from bouncing. You need to choose a feed rate of the cut that is appropriate for the type of material, the speed at which it is revolving and the depth of cut. All are important factors, and definitely come from practice and many high piles of shavings.

Just don't let the learning curve intimidate you. You can accelerate the curve by watching videos and getting lessons from good instructors, but it is a curve none the less.
 
Bevel rings

john lucas said:
Roger If you are experiencing the "bruising rings", this is caused by the bottom edge of the bevel. Not the cutting edge. It is a sharp corner and if you hesitate any in your feed rate it will leave a mark. I grind this off. My gouges have about 2 to 4 bevels below the main bevel. Each one is ground back free hand after the initial grind. I do this go get rid of material, so that it is easier to hone the edge if I need to, also the short bevel will let you ride down a bowl with less friction, and if you kind of radius the bottom edge it also prevents the bruising.
Click to expand...

John,

I had wondered about that when I first saw Mike Mahoney's series of bowl gouges with more than one bevel grind on them in a catalog and also on a YouTube video. Am I on the right track when I use them as an example of what you have told me in this post?
 
If it comes out of the cut it almost has to be one of 3 things. The tool is dull, which is usually #1 for me. I find the first sign of a dull tool is when I can't take a really fine cut without the tool coming out of the cut.
The second reason is what MM mentioned, levering the tool out of the cut. Don't force the tool. Let it cut at the rate it wants to cut. Back off on the forward pressure and use a light touch and you can "feel" it cut. Cutting at this pace not only helps you get a smoother cut but helps you control the leverage part of the cut to keep the bevel in contact with the wood.
third, the bevel is wrong for that shape of bowl. Turn the lathe off and push the gouge down through the bowl with the bevel rubbing but not the cutting edge. If you can't stay on the bevel then you need to either change the front angle of that tool or use another tool with the proper grind.
The typical angle of a bowl gouge is usually somewhere from about 50 to 65 degrees. I use 55 degrees for my most used gouge. That should give you a starting point.
 
john lucas said:
If it comes out of the cut it almost has to be one of 3 things. The tool is dull, which is usually #1 for me. I find the first sign of a dull tool is when I can't take a really fine cut without the tool coming out of the cut.
The second reason is what MM mentioned, levering the tool out of the cut. Don't force the tool. Let it cut at the rate it wants to cut. Back off on the forward pressure and use a light touch and you can "feel" it cut. Cutting at this pace not only helps you get a smoother cut but helps you control the leverage part of the cut to keep the bevel in contact with the wood.
third, the bevel is wrong for that shape of bowl. Turn the lathe off and push the gouge down through the bowl with the bevel rubbing but not the cutting edge. If you can't stay on the bevel then you need to either change the front angle of that tool or use another tool with the proper grind.
The typical angle of a bowl gouge is usually somewhere from about 50 to 65 degrees. I use 55 degrees for my most used gouge. That should give you a starting point.
Click to expand...


Thank you John,

my set up for sharpening is pretty much what the guy who demonstrates on the dvd that came with my wolverine system recommended. I place my vari-grind jig at 1-3/4 inches from the end of the gouge, and use the angle that pretty much came with my gouge when I bought it [ pinnacle cryogenic 1/2 bowl with fingernail grind, and a 3/8 inch sorby bowl gouge, fingernail grind, although both have been elongated on the sides a little.]

I don't know what the exact angle is, but I will put a protractor on it to see. It looks to me like it is in the neighborhood of 50 degrees or so. I may try grinding away the heel just a little to make it easier to negotiate the arc on the transition from side to bottom.
 
At least four. To start the outside, and for the finish cut outside. To start the inside, and for the finish cut on the inside. Always for the finish cuts. It only takes fiteen seconds or so. As pointed out, it can't be too sharp, and it never gets sharper.

I often tell students that when they get home, and one day the gouge is cutting really well, and it's going great, to stop....... and sharpen the gouge. That's where I like to work, and it makes the cuts nearly effortless. John Lucas took a really good picture once that illustrates this, I don't know if he still has it.😀

John
 
Roger Chandler said:
..... I have at times had the gouge want to come out of the cut when I have been riding the bevel as I sweep through the arc when transitioning from the side to the bottom [flat] part on the inside of a bowl......
Click to expand...

This is drifting away from sharpening, but everything in turning is sort of related so here are some slightly off topic thoughts:

In addition to the great suggestions about sharpening and tool control so far, I have a suggestion about bowl shape that might be useful. While it is your decision on the shape of a bowl, something that helped me with getting over the "learning curve hump" in bowl turning was the emphasis from instructors to strive for a continuous and smoothly changing curve from the rim to bottom of a bowl. That way there is no discernible "side" or bottom" nor a transition area between the two. Think of something like a French Curve where the curve is continuously and smoothly changing with no point where the curve makes a noticeable shift. It took me some effort to get to the shape that I envisioned in my mind, but the result was pleasing to me and most of all, it made it far easier to ride the bevel all the way from the rim to the bottom center point. The most amazing and enlightening experience for me was when Stu Batty helped me guide the gouge in one fluid motion from rim to bottom center. Then, to emphasize his point about tool control, he did it with just one hand while I watched as he showed how almost no force is actually needed. Even if this is not the shape that you are wanting to attain, I think that it would be good for teaching yourself tool control.

Also, when I was learning, I think that I was not looking at anything in particular except for perhaps the dust, chips, and occasional shavings. Perhaps I sometimes became focused on the the tool bouncing around on the rest. The results improved considerably when I started keeping my attention fixed to what was actually important which was the bevel and how it was being presented to the wood. Once things clicked in my head, turning became much easier and I was able to approach the lathe in a much more relaxed manner rather than being all tense and rigid and just poking the tool into the wood. I also believe that turning a piece of green wood is also a great confidence builder. As it dries it will warp and crack, but it will still burn just fine in the fireplace.
 
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Ditto Bill Boehme

All of Bills comments are on the money . I don't turn many bowls but Stu Battys teachings of a continuous cut is the most helpful I have had. I still can't do it one handed but it is worth trying just for the sake of tool control, riding that bevel.

When doing a finial or spindle of about 12 x 36 John Jordans 4 sharpenings are a minimum for me. If I change tools I always sharpen the tool I was using before switching unless it was used for only a short duration, less than a minute.

Remember that you will be sharpening, not grinding, takes 30 seconds at the most.
 
Well, some more musings. The inside of a bowl is more difficult to turn than the outside. You have total access to the outside, and the inside you just can't see as well. The outside is one smooth curve, well, most of the time, but still you can see the whole thing. The inside has 3 areas, the side, the transition, and the bottom. When turning the outside, the convex shape lets the gouge cut with the bevel almost on the cutting edge. On the inside, you will rub the heel of the gouge which is back from the cutting edge. On MM's continental style gouges, this is a short bevel. On some of the swept back gouges, this is a long bevel. To shorten up that distance, some grind a secondary bevel, or I just round off the back, grinding about half of the bevel away. A sharp heel can bruise the wood, and can also push the gouge in spurts, so some times the ring marks are bruises, and some times they are from thrusting. Stewart Batty does a good job of explaining this.

A 45 degree angle is a good utility angle. It will get you through most shallower and smaller bowls while you gently rub the bevel. On steeper bowls, and ones with a sharper transition, you need a steeper bevel. I think mine are closer to 50 degrees, and have 2 ground at the same angle as my scrapers, about 75 degrees, which is for going across the bottom of a deep bowl. I have been sharpening without my gouge jig for all of this year, and will probably never use it again. You can do any gouge profile without it. Just set the tool rest to the desired angle, and you can roll it more if you want more swept back. It really is a lot faster. This was learned from Stewart as well.

Tool steels have come a long way. The biggest difference between the HSS and the 'lasts 6 times longer' steel, is that the long lasting steel keeps a working edge, meaning you can still hog off a lot material without needing to go back to the grinder with it than you can with regular HSS. The fresh edge that is perfect for a beautiful finish cut lasts just about the same amount of time.

When using a bowl gouge, the hand on the handle does all the work. I do apply brute strength when roughing, but for the finish cuts, a gentle touch, and the hand on the flute just rests there. I seldom have my hand on the tool rest. This allows me to 'feel' the wood. This is a good practice exercise to develop your gouge skills, it just is nerve racking the first few times you try it. Turn your speed down, put a little slack in the belt, and go gently. The more you fight and white knuckle your gouge, the worse your cuts will be. It really needs to be relaxing.

From an old movie where some one was learning sword fighting, "Hold it like a bird. Too tight and you kill it. Too loose, and it flies away."

robo hippy
 
Really Good stuff

John, Bill,Wayne, Robo & all,

I understand what you are saying, and I thank you very much. I have experienced what you refer to as "bruising of the grain" leaving ring marks, but did not know what to call it, and thought it was the cutting edge that was the culprit.

I have also had those times when the shavings were flying off like ribbons and the cut took hardly any effort, and could simply with one hand on the handle let the bevel rub all on its own.

So I have a mental picture that you have put into words for the most part, but I had not connected the heel of the bevel issue as of yet [can we say this is a step forward?] and now I think with grinding the heel away a little, that it will help me a good bit.

I think that I have some to learn yet as to form. I like to do unusual curves and I like large turnings on bowls, so they can be used to put flower arrangements as center pieces on a large table. I like it to stand out and draw as much attention as the flowers themselves. This undulation and curvature will sometimes lend itself to cutting like a large bead followed by almost hollowing a hollow form with a large opening.

On regular bowls, there are times when I have a good bit more width than depth in the blank, so as to make a large bowl that is only half as deep, and this lends itself to some flat on the bottom. I guess I need to start doing some shapes that would be more in the vase catagory in order to get that more flowing curve.

I sense another evolution in my turning skills coming on with the guidance you guys have given me. I welcome your input, and almost feel like I'm getting to know you [just a little] on a personal level. You all have my gratitude, and I look forward to giving your instruction a "spin" the next session at the lathe, when I get back into town next week.
 
I've gotten in the habit of hitting the grinder about the same as John mentioned, especially on bigger bowls...at the start on the outside and inside, as well as the finish cuts for both, and more if the tools stop responding as I'd like.

Roger Chandler said:
...On regular bowls, there are times when I have a good bit more width than depth in the blank, so as to make a large bowl that is only half as deep, and this lends itself to some flat on the bottom. I guess I need to start doing some shapes that would be more in the vase catagory in order to get that more flowing curve...
Click to expand...

You can still get a flowing curve in the bottom of a short wide bowl. This one's about 17 1/2" x 3 3/4"...

Bowl 082 - 03 800.jpg Bowl 082 - 01 800.jpg
 
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Vaughn said:
You can still get a flowing curve in the bottom of a short wide bowl. This one's about 17 1/2" x 3 3/4"...

View attachment 3605 View attachment 3606
Click to expand...

That is a beautiful example of a nice continuous sweeping curve. Another thing about a shallow bowl turned with a smooth sweeping curve is that it will have the visual appearance of being larger and deeper than a bowl with relatively straight sides that is the same diameter and height. This is because much more outside surface is being revealed as the eye follows the curve from the rim to the foot. The small foot also gives the bowl a more light delicate appearance while still being large enough to provide ample stability.
 
A note of sarcasm?

Barbara Gill said:
This question reminds me of "How long did it take you to turn that?",
Click to expand...

The question I posted concerning how often one sharpens on average, was an attempt on my part to be able to get some sort of broad base from those with much experience to be able to asses my own habits [good or bad] in comparison, so that I can utilize others experiences to quicken the learning curve for myself.

I don't think each and every person has to "invent the wheel" all over again all by themselves, but can learn and build upon what others who have achieved success have done.

To the extent that there have been many who have been "very gracious" and have responded with the intent to help a fellow wood turner learn, my most sincere appreciation goes out to them.
 
As often as necessary

Roger, while it is easy to feel that a couple replies are a bit sarcastic, I think that it is more like an unintended communications breakdown due to a brief reply that mentions a common analogy heard in woodturning. More experienced turners, reading between the lines, would probably interpret those responses as something like, " do not determine when to sharpen a tool by looking at elapsed time since the last sharpening, but instead use other more relevant criteria." I think that most of the replies to your original question have tried to steer your determination of when to sharpen away from looking at the clock and towards indicators that let you know that a tool is not cutting as well as it should and, therefore, it is time to sharpen it.

Elapsed time, without a doubt, is the least helpful criterion for deciding when to sharpen a tool. While several of the replies have mentioned estimates in "bowl time", you will not be sharpening optimally until your paradigms shift towards seeing and feeling what is going on at the cutting edge of the tool. It is much more important to know "why" you are sharpening a tool than to assume that it must be "time" to sharpen it.
 
thanks for clarifying.....

Barbara Gill said:
LOL Roger. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I was not being sarcastic at all. I meant exactly what I said. Both questions are very subjective.
Click to expand...

Thank you Barbara,

I assure you that my feelings were not hurt, I have much tougher hide than that, and I highly regard those such as yourself who have achieved the expertise that has been attained by them and respect their skill levels.

Your answer as to "being subjective" gets right to the heart of my own inquiry when I asked "how often." It is like Bill Boehme just said, not a matter of the clock, but when one sees the quality of the cut becoming diminished. My purpose for asking was to get from those more accomplished than myself a sense of their experience, so as to be able to compare mine, and see where I might need to make adjustment in my technique, sharpening frequency etc.

I have looked at your website a couple of times, as I am also a fellow Virginian, and have admired your work.... thank you and blessings! 🙂
 
Once again, thanks!

Bill Boehme said:
Roger, while it is easy to feel that a couple replies are a bit sarcastic, I think that it is more like an unintended communications breakdown due to a brief reply that mentions a common analogy heard in woodturning. More experienced turners, reading between the lines, would probably interpret those responses as something like, " do not determine when to sharpen a tool by looking at elapsed time since the last sharpening, but instead use other more relevant criteria." I think that most of the replies to your original question have tried to steer your determination of when to sharpen away from looking at the clock and towards indicators that let you know that a tool is not cutting as well as it should and, therefore, it is time to sharpen it.

Elapsed time, without a doubt, is the least helpful criterion for deciding when to sharpen a tool. While several of the replies have mentioned estimates in "bowl time", you will not be sharpening optimally until your paradigms shift towards seeing and feeling what is going on at the cutting edge of the tool. It is much more important to know "why" you are sharpening a tool than to assume that it must be "time" to sharpen it.
Click to expand...

Bill,

I said it before, on another thread after your kind and informative response to my questions "You sir, are a prince among men!" Your graciousness and willingness to help others, is indeed a "princely" thing, and I value your way of shaping the sense of conversation on a thread to help others gain understanding....... that is why others look to you as a mentor, even on a forum such as this.

You have been very helpful to me, and I thank you for your time and your consideration! 🙂
 
Sharpening

Roger - As you have found, there are as many different approaches to sharpening as there are turners. Tool sharpening is full of legend, folklore, rules, no rules..... Some really love to grind, others grind a little and hone a lot. Some are students of finely prepared cutting edges while others turn and use the "60 grit rotary gouge" to clean things up.

I am sending to your email account two pdf files of recent AAW articles that Alan Lacer and I wrote which attempted to show the role of grinding and honing on edge preparation using high resolution, large depth of field digital imaging.

I appreciate your honest approach to trying to learn the basics.

Jerry
 
received your pdf.

steelguy said:
Roger - As you have found, there are as many different approaches to sharpening as there are turners. Tool sharpening is full of legend, folklore, rules, no rules..... Some really love to grind, others grind a little and hone a lot. Some are students of finely prepared cutting edges while others turn and use the "60 grit rotary gouge" to clean things up.

I am sending to your email account two pdf files of recent AAW articles that Alan Lacer and I wrote which attempted to show the role of grinding and honing on edge preparation using high resolution, large depth of field digital imaging.

I appreciate your honest approach to trying to learn the basics.

Jerry
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Jerry,
I have indeed received your email concerning sharpening, and I will take the time to study, and try to digest the salient points. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to help a fellow turner improve his results.

This kind of interaction is precisely one of the reasons that I joined AAW, and the cost of membership has already paid for itself in my case!

Thanks again!
 
Roger Chandler

You do not owe anyone an apology nor do they owe you one. Telling someone to shove it (within the limits of civil discourse of course) is one of humanitys outstanding traits.
 
none owed, none expected

Wayne Spence said:
You do not owe anyone an apology nor do they owe you one. Telling someone to shove it (within the limits of civil discourse of course) is one of humanitys outstanding traits.
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Hello Wayne,

I certainly do not think anyone owed me an apology, nor was one expected. That being said, some folks are truly nice people, and value others perceptions or mis-perceptions, which ever the case may be. When someone cares enough for others that they go out of their way to make sure their intent was not misunderstood, then it is a positive thing.

Again, I am grateful for nice people! They just make the world a better place, and I have found that it is true . . . . "Meekness is never a weakness!"

In that same spirit ..... If I misunderstood, mis-perceived, or took wrong any one's post, I gladly offer my apology! Everyone's help to me is appreciated.

Thank you Wayne, and I wish you the best!
 
IInteresting thread.

One aspect, that I didn't see mentioned is turning segmented work. If a vessel is constructed wiith stacked 16-segment rings and the lathe is at 1000rpm's, that's 16,000 tiny attacks per minute on the cutting edge. As a segmenter, I probably shapen at least twice as often as the average solid wood turner.
 
Cutting glue is even hard on carbide saw blades.
 
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