How do lathes compaere

[James Nasworthy]

Has anyone ever turned on this type of lathes Laguna Reno 23-36 or the 20-36 and how would they campare to a Powermatic 3520B lathes ?

 

[James Nasworthy]

lathes

The reason Im asking is because my shop brunned up Tuesday moning and I lost everthing . I am looking at lathes for the best deal.Of courst I need all the other machines that goes with. woodturning.

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Very sorry to hear about your shop Chip. I hope you and loved ones are all OK. I have not turned on either of these lathes so can't help you there. The Laguna looks like a good value. The PM tried and tested. Good luck rebuilding and with your choice.

Doug

 

[Raul McCai]

The motor placement is creative.

I don't know a thing about their lathes. Never been a room with one, don't know any one who has one.

I am told that Powermatic has ISO 9001 manufacturing and QC

I do know a little bit about the company.
When I was looking to get a new table-saw I decided to look for a sliding table saw.
The Laguna was among the candidates. I called the company and ended up with a sales rep who typified high pressure and used cars sales, I couldn't shake the guy.
He bombarded me with glossy brochures that provided none of the information I was looking for.
He badgered me with phone calls and I used them to try to get the information I sought.
But each time he managed to get off the phone without answering my questions, because he was unable to answer them. So he ditched me when I demanded answers and called me again like clockwork every couple of days and I'd try again.

I wanted information about motor efficiency, and Bearing classes. I wanted to know the size of the bearings. Things like that.
HE couldn't help me. Eventually I asked to speak to some one in technical.
He admitted there was no one in technical there is no technical and no repair department either (that was not a good sign).
I asked him if he could get me a tech manual or some kind of reference material.
He admitted that if there was any such thing, it'd be in Czech, because that's where the saws are made and assembled and nothing would be in English.

Compare and contrast to
The Felder Rep who, when I asked abut bearing sizes, got a micrometer and went to the parts crib to measure one for me. He knew about motor efficiency and bearing classes.
You can imagine whose saw I bought.

 

[Jamie Straw]

[Snip]
When I was looking to get a new table-saw I decided to look for a sliding table saw.
The Laguna was among the candidates. I called the company and ended up with a sales rep who typified high pressure and used cars sales, I couldn't shake the guy.
He bombarded me with glossy brochures that provided none of the information I was looking for.
He badgered me with phone calls and I used them to try to get the information I sought.
But each time he managed to get off the phone without answering my questions, because he was unable to answer them. So he ditched me when I demanded answers and called me again like clockwork every couple of days and I'd try again.

I wanted information about motor efficiency, and Bearing classes. I wanted to know the size of the bearings. Things like that.
HE couldn't help me. Eventually I asked to speak to some one in technical.
He admitted there was no one in technical there is no technical and no repair department either (that was not a good sign).
I asked him if he could get me a tech manual or some kind of reference material.
He admitted that if there was any such thing, it'd be in Czech, because that's where the saws are made and assembled and nothing would be in English.

Compare and contrast to
The Felder Rep who, when I asked abut bearing sizes, got a micrometer and went to the parts crib to measure one for me. He knew about motor efficiency and bearing classes.
You can imagine whose saw I bought.

Don't know when you had that "conversation" with the Laguna rep, but when I was active on forums from 2002-2009, this was a consistent complaint about Laguna. Seems folk would rather go to a used car lot than get involved with Laguna.🙁

 

[john lucas]

Yea I just talked to a guy a few days ago who bought the Laguna Bandsaw. He said it's a good machine but trying to get Laguna to help you with anything is next to impossible. I would stick with a known good company and get the Powermatic.

 

[James Nasworthy]

how do lathes compare

After reading the comments . I think I will spend the little more money and get the powermantic . Thanks

 

[Jamie Straw]

Laguna = clueless

After reading the comments . I think I will spend the little more money and get the powermantic . Thanks

It just amazes me that Laguna doesn't get the message about their sales tactics and lack of customer service. I've been gone for 5 or 6 years, and nothing has changed! Good decision, Chip. (so sorry about the loss of your shop)

 

[John Tisdale]

Moderation is for Monks - Go Oneway 24

I know there are a lot of seriously great turner/artists out there using 20" lathes. But, if you're buying a new machine, why not go all the way. A 24 will do anything a 20 will do but not visa versa. And you'll never do 24" on a 24 or 20" on a 20 - the best you'll do is maybe a 22" on the 24 or a 18" on a 20 - and that's assuming you're a real stud with a chainsaw. This is "recreation" - where you re-create yourself - go for it - why impose limitations?

And I'd seriously look at Oneway - the 3-hp. You'll be hugging yourself for a long time if you go with their 24". And at the risk of upsetting the Oneway folks, ask about the 2424 - not having that extra foot makes it a really nice machine. And for the infrequent tool handles or tall vases, attach the 17" extension for a 41" bed.

The above being said, I'm well aware their are guys out there doing far superior work with converted metal lathes and shop-builts - in the final analysis, it's YOU. The girls are right when they say it's not the tool but the craftsman. A bunch of years ago an old codger showed up and won the national skeet championship with a model-12 with the stock held together with electrician's tape.

Still, I'll take all the help I can get - I love my Oneway 2424 and if my shop burns, I'll get another.

But the fore-said is my opinion and I could be wrong.

 

[Bill Boehme]

... And you'll never do 24" on a 24 or 20" on a 20 - the best you'll do is maybe a 22" on the 24 or a 18" on a 20 - and that's assuming you're a real stud with a chainsaw. This is "recreation" - where you re-create yourself - go for it - why impose limitations?...

It can happen ... I bought the outboard tool post attachment a couple years ago for my Robust and, for the first time since getting the lathe, I really need it. I had to do some chain saw work on a box elder piece last year to get it to clear the ways (it has a 25½" swing).

 

[john lucas]

Ditto I love my 3520 with the sliding headstock. The new 3520B has a position on the legs to lower a bed extension so you can turn 30" if you buy the bed extension. I'm going to modify my A series to do that because I have the bed extension. That way you have the advantages of having a short bed lathe by sliding the headstock out. You have 30" of swing if needed and with the bed extension in the normal position 54" between centers. I keep mine on the lathe on the headstock end right now so it sits under the motor and doesn't add any real space in the shop but it's there if needed.

 

[John Torchick]

Thought it was standard procedure for high pressure telemarketers or whatever you want to call them to keep calling back. That is why we have Caller ID- we keep getting calls about lowering our credit card rate, etc. The Do Not Call list is a joke.
The dancing around your questions is an indication that you don't want to do business with that company. Sorry to hear of your loss and good luck in getting set up and running again.

 

[Brian McInturff]

Guess I got lucky. I recently upgraded the guide system on my old Laguna 16(Meber) and the tech guy was very helpful. Maybe because he was a woodturner and had the same saw. Anyways, I had no complaints...

 

[hockenbery]

Chip,
You probably have turned enough to know what you want.

We have a ONEWAY 2416 with a 17" outboard and a ONEWAY 2436 with the outboard table.
The 1624 came home with us from Richmond in 2008. It is two shortbed lathes one with a tail stock and one without.
Great for platters, bowls, and reasonable sized hollow forms.
The 2436 is 18 years old and going strong. It is great for bigger pieces.
The ONEWAY banjo is the best I've seen, the #3 morse taper in the tailstock take bigger drill bits, the index wheel is easy to use and read.

IMHO the ONEWAY, robust AB, and the new Vicmarc are a class above the competition in locking levers, tailstock travel, spindle locks, fit and finish.
Adjustable height too!

The powermatic is a fine lathe. It is just not quite there with banjo, locking levers tailstock travel. These are ok but not great.
The indexing system is not one I care to use ever. And height is fixed.

I turn on powermatics 5-10 times a year and on Robust AB 2-3 times a year. Haven't turned on the new Vicmarc.

The Nova Dvrs will have dial speed control and a red stop button soon which should put them in a class with the powermatic.

Good luck with your new shop

Al

 

[Bob Dupras]

When I 1st started looking for a new lathe, I was interested in the 1836. But after doing some searches on Laguna service, I found some real horror stories with their customer service. They weren't about the 1836 since it's a relatively new lathe, but some of the other models. I ended up with the PM 3520B, and I'm very satisfied. I called the PM service department just to get a clarification, and I had my questioned answered in less than a minute. No hold time, no checking with another person. I do have a friend with a Laguna lathe. He likes it a lot, but has never had to deal with their customer service.

 

[Richard Coers]

It just amazes me that Laguna doesn't get the message about their sales tactics and lack of customer service. I've been gone for 5 or 6 years, and nothing has changed! Good decision, Chip. (so sorry about the loss of your shop)

I'm curious how bad the customer service really is these days. I'm sure they had a bad period there years ago, but the internet never forgets. 5 year old complaints, show up like it was yesterday. I rode Grizzly really hard for shipping me a bandsaw that should have never left the factory. Every spinning part was out of balance. Their attempt to limit bad reviews from people is to refuse to sell bad reviewers anything else. I can't even order a screwdriver from them. If Laguna hasn't repaired their service department, it's a critical error that design and pricing will never overcome.

 

[Hu Lowery]

Grizzly; just for the record

I'm curious how bad the customer service really is these days. I'm sure they had a bad period there years ago, but the internet never forgets. 5 year old complaints, show up like it was yesterday. I rode Grizzly really hard for shipping me a bandsaw that should have never left the factory. Every spinning part was out of balance. Their attempt to limit bad reviews from people is to refuse to sell bad reviewers anything else. I can't even order a screwdriver from them. If Laguna hasn't repaired their service department, it's a critical error that design and pricing will never overcome.

Richard,

Just for the record, I bought a new 766 Grizzly before they were available. First one that came was damaged in shipping due to poor packing, including just poor packing protocol so every lathe shipped could have the same issues. The outside of the crate was perfect. In addition to this, there were a couple of design issues. I aired my grievances in a thread that the founder and CEO of Grizzly, Shiraz Balolia, was involved in. I also had the machine picked up and shipped back to the factory. My bill of lading included shipping costs so I know that Grizzly was eating $200 each way with their flat rate shipping. No question this machine cost them a good bit by the time it round tripped.

Within weeks Grizzly improved packaging and redesigned the banjo to correct the design issues that had some of us very unhappy with the machine. I ordered another machine and received it with no issues or indication I was anything but a welcome and valued customer. The machine shipped with the original banjo as I knew it would but all buyers of the 766 will receive the new banjo when it is available, maybe as early as next month. The improved banjo involved a new casting so there will be a few months lag time as expected.

I looked at the sixteen inch Jet, the 3520B, and the first Grizzly 0766. Before Grizzly made the changes I planned to pay twice the price for a 3520B. Hard to say in terms of strength, the bed appears extremely well made, but in terms of mass and bed cross section the Grizzly seems to be maybe two-thirds of the way between the sixteen inch Jet and the 3520. I am happy with the Grizzly now and very happy that the factory listened to the users and made a mid-run design change. When I said that was what it would take to get me to buy the Grizzly I actually thought the chances of that happening were zero.

All of the other machines mentioned are excellent. I drool and slobber on the ugly color 3520's and 4224's every time I go by PMC which is right up the road. Dollars a little better, I would have bought the 3520; dollars a lot better I would buy an American Beauty. No reason to think the Grizzly won't do all I ever need it to but I'd prefer the American made Beauty. Unfortunately I can buy five or six 766's for the price of one American Beauty rigged like I would want it. I have champagne tastes and beer, cheap beer, pocketbook!

Hu

 

[Richard Coers]

Richard,

Just for the record, I bought a new 766 Grizzly before they were available. First one that came was damaged in shipping due to poor packing, including just poor packing protocol so every lathe shipped could have the same issues. The outside of the crate was perfect. In addition to this, there were a couple of design issues. I aired my grievances in a thread that the founder and CEO of Grizzly, Shiraz Balolia, was involved in. I also had the machine picked up and shipped back to the factory. My bill of lading included shipping costs so I know that Grizzly was eating $200 each way with their flat rate shipping. No question this machine cost them a good bit by the time it round tripped.

Within weeks Grizzly improved packaging and redesigned the banjo to correct the design issues that had some of us very unhappy with the machine. I ordered another machine and received it with no issues or indication I was anything but a welcome and valued customer. The machine shipped with the original banjo as I knew it would but all buyers of the 766 will receive the new banjo when it is available, maybe as early as next month. The improved banjo involved a new casting so there will be a few months lag time as expected.

I looked at the sixteen inch Jet, the 3520B, and the first Grizzly 0766. Before Grizzly made the changes I planned to pay twice the price for a 3520B. Hard to say in terms of strength, the bed appears extremely well made, but in terms of mass and bed cross section the Grizzly seems to be maybe two-thirds of the way between the sixteen inch Jet and the 3520. I am happy with the Grizzly now and very happy that the factory listened to the users and made a mid-run design change. When I said that was what it would take to get me to buy the Grizzly I actually thought the chances of that happening were zero.

All of the other machines mentioned are excellent. I drool and slobber on the ugly color 3520's and 4224's every time I go by PMC which is right up the road. Dollars a little better, I would have bought the 3520; dollars a lot better I would buy an American Beauty. No reason to think the Grizzly won't do all I ever need it to but I'd prefer the American made Beauty. Unfortunately I can buy five or six 766's for the price of one American Beauty rigged like I would want it. I have champagne tastes and beer, cheap beer, pocketbook!

Hu

Hi Hu,
I've read your posts on another forum. My continued comments about Grizzly quality there, got me banned from that site. I've recently read about poorly machined spindles. My theory on Chinese factories is quality can be based on demand. They are under heavy pressure to ship product when demand is high. Parts that may be out of spec are used when they should have been reworked, or scraped, to meet shipping demands. They seem to believe that replacement parts can always be shipped latter and the owner can do the rework cheaper than the factory if the owner complains. If the owner doesn't know better, they are way ahead of the curve. With this practice, they meet the demand of the customer, Grizzly. Your lathe was under heavy demand from what may have been a questionable decision to include it in the annual catalog, when production may not have even started yet. My bandsaw was under heavy demand and back ordered at my purchase date. So I feel that heavy demand will result in a higher percentage of poor parts. My Oneway 2436, purchased in 1998, was the second lathe I bought. It replaced a marginal Delta lathe with reeves drive. We didn't have a lot of choices in those days, but the old adage of buying quality once was reinforced in my mind. It was difficult to spend that money on the Oneway, but I haven't reworked or spent a dime on it in 17 years.

 

[Raul McCai]

Don't know when you had that "conversation" with the Laguna rep, but when I was active on forums from 2002-2009, this was a consistent complaint about Laguna. Seems folk would rather go to a used car lot than get involved with Laguna.🙁

Yah~!! and isn't it weird that there are absolutely no reviews of laguna lathes on the internet?

I searched and searched. I only found one old post from one guy who decided against their REVO lathe after learning they ditched the DC motor in their design.

It's hard to get any reviews on anything by people who are looking back on a few years of ownership. It seems the reviews come immediately after that intoxicating whiff of factory air, fresh from the shipping crate - before the bugs and flaws manifest.

 

[Hu Lowery]

Can't disagree with a word here

Hi Hu,
I've read your posts on another forum. My continued comments about Grizzly quality there, got me banned from that site. I've recently read about poorly machined spindles. My theory on Chinese factories is quality can be based on demand. They are under heavy pressure to ship product when demand is high. Parts that may be out of spec are used when they should have been reworked, or scraped, to meet shipping demands. They seem to believe that replacement parts can always be shipped latter and the owner can do the rework cheaper than the factory if the owner complains. If the owner doesn't know better, they are way ahead of the curve. With this practice, they meet the demand of the customer, Grizzly. Your lathe was under heavy demand from what may have been a questionable decision to include it in the annual catalog, when production may not have even started yet. My bandsaw was under heavy demand and back ordered at my purchase date. So I feel that heavy demand will result in a higher percentage of poor parts. My Oneway 2436, purchased in 1998, was the second lathe I bought. It replaced a marginal Delta lathe with reeves drive. We didn't have a lot of choices in those days, but the old adage of buying quality once was reinforced in my mind. It was difficult to spend that money on the Oneway, but I haven't reworked or spent a dime on it in 17 years.

Richard,

I can't disagree with a word you said concerning quality, quality issues, and chinese manufacturers doing what they have to in order to meet customer's demands and price points. The 766 is a decent lathe although I have had more issues than most with mine. I would have much preferred to pay a couple hundred more for the great lathe it could be. I honestly think that for a little more spent on manufacturing it could be very close to the 3520. Of course with Burt making both machines that might be the last thing they want.

I have been around the other forum for a good many years but only as an off and on thing. I don't have any idea if your banning was justified but it would take an awful lot to justify banning someone for being honest about getting a lemon. As you know I have been pretty outspoken myself although I try to be fair about what they do right as I have been in this thread. Tech support has been very cooperative at Grizzly too, just wish I didn't know the tech's all by name!

Hu

 

[Jamie Straw]

I'm curious how bad the customer service really is these days. I'm sure they had a bad period there years ago, but the internet never forgets. 5 year old complaints, show up like it was yesterday.[Snip]

Yep! That's why, when I look at something on Amazon, I sort the reviews by "newest first." I figure companies deserve a chance to respond to earlier complaints and correct problems/shortcomings. As far as Laguna goes, the way their sales force works, I suspect they've had some serious and expensive sales training. The approach pretty much has to come from the leaders of the company, and if they focus on hard-sell tactics, it's not likely they put much effort into post-sales customer service. Would be interesting to take a survey of Laguna owners and find out!

 

[Bill Boehme]

Good businesses work very hard to develop a good reputation in the user community. That is worth more than any amount of money spent on advertising. If a problem occurs, businesses deserve a fair shake by discussing the matter privately and not a public lynching before being pronounced as bad. After interacting with other turners for a while, most of us know who the good guys are just based on discussions of who is using what equipment. Even the best companies will have a lemon slip through the cracks occasionally and it isn't a good experience for anybody. Contacting the business and discussing the issue in a non-hostile manner always works a lot better than pitching a fit and trashing their reputation.

And, as Sergeant Friday would say . . . .



It's a lot nicer and more honest than speculating on motives.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Laguna = DON'T DO IT!

Hi Chip - I'm very sorry to hear about your shop fire, I wish you the best with getting up and running.

I bought a new Laguna 18-47 back in 2009, worst decision I've ever made about buying woodworking equipment. It was a very "rough" lathe, not well machined, paint chips, cast iron chip-outs, poor machining on the headstock, tail stock and banjo, which made it hard to slide things. Then after a while things would not lock down. They used such cheap parts, things would NOT stay adjusted for more than a few uses of the lathe.

But the worst part was the electronics design, second only to their poor customer service. I'm not sure which one was worse.

The electronics literally blew up 4 days after the 1 year warrantee period, and the electronic control and motor where paired, so both had to be replaced at the same time (according to Laguna). The manager of technical service at Laguna told me on the phone that Laguna knew about the design fault that caused it to blow up, but they would not warrant it. It cost almost 1/3 of the original cost to repair it.

I ordered a Robust Lathe, then fixed the Laguna lathe and sold it immediately.

In my opinion I would not buy anything Laguna because of this experience.

I would recommend a Robust Lathe though.

Happy turning- Tom

 

[David Wilkins]

Hello,
I have been a woodturner for 12 years now. I did, 4 years ago, involve myself a lot in the Woodturning corners of the Internet, and happy Laguna Lathe owners are hard to find.
More importantly, since the question should be asked, what are you planning to turn? Also, how much do you honestly expect to turn? You might jump on a VB36 and always be happy, but if your largest project is a 3" box once a month it's a bit overkill. There is an excellent depth of knowledge here that can go beyond brand and probably save you headache's in the long run.

Dave