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How close, and how fast?

Odie

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
7,285
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11,589
Location
Missoula, MT
Just finished a 15 3/4" bowl and can't go much larger. The swing on my Woodfast lathe is 16", but I think I can go about 16 1/4" before it rubs the bedways. Just wondering how close to the bedways other turners will go, and feel comfortable about it......:eek:

Also, how slow can the rpm be, and still have a good parting cut on a pine waste block?

-----odie-----
IMG_5066 (2).JPG

-----odie-----
 
I usually turn green wood so by the time they are dry and finished turned they aren't that close.I rarely use a waste block so can't answer that.

But, that is an awesome piece of wood and you did an amazing job with the detail! Thanks for showing it!
 
odie, you are making me jealous. I can't help with your question. I do want to tie in with James' reply. What kind of wood? How did you do the detail work? Finish?
 
John Torchick said:
odie, you are making me jealous. I can't help with your question. I do want to tie in with James' reply. What kind of wood? How did you do the detail work? Finish?
Click to expand...

Thank you John and James.....(I'm a great admirer of your awesome footed bowls! :D)

Howdy John......Fiddleback Maple, AKA: Curly, Tiger, and Flame Maple.......depends on who you talk to! :rolleyes:

The details are done with a diamond point scraper ground to an acute angle.

All my work is finished with Danish Oil Natural......unless I have a reason to alter from that.

-----odie-----
 
When I had a smaller lathe with a 14" swing I turned one bowl that barely cleared the bed ... in fact it slightly dipped into the gap on one side before I got it trued up. By the time that I finished the diameter was about an inch less. I've turned a few large pieces on my Robust, but not quite the same situation ... it was just cutting the corners off half logs to clear the bed.

I have a putty knife sharpened to a knife edge on the end that I use for parting the waste block off so the RPM is zero. If you are doing it the old fashioned way then use a pull type hand saw to finish the last half inch or so. No sense in risking having a flying saucer in your shop.
 
odie said:
Also, how slow can the rpm be, and still have a good parting cut on a pine waste block?
Click to expand...

I don't think there is a minimum speed below which a parting tool will not give a satisfactory cut. On occaision I have used my parting tool while rotating the piece by hand. If the tool is reasonably sharp and held steady with proper pressure on the target it will cut straight. It's the steady proper pressure part that is actually more difficult to do at very low speed.
 
That's a beautiful piece, Odie.

On one occasion, I was close enough to the bed that the piece of waxed paper that I put on the ways to prevent rust from my wet sanding was too thick to go between the edge of the platter and the bed.
 
I managed to do a bowl from green wood with about 1/8" clearance on my Jet 1642 several years ago; it was almost exactly 16" diameter. The only reason for doing it was to see if I could. Started with the blank oversize, mounted on a faceplate and off the end of the bed -- just enough space for the banjo between the end of the bed and headstock. Gradually reduced the diameter and moved the headstock backward as I went. I don't have a photo of the finished bowl, just snapshots of the work in progress. As it dried, it went severely oval. Having done it once, I have no interest in trying again -- especially not with the 25" swing on my AB.

Bowl 240 DSCF9380 crop sm2.JPG bowl 240 DSCF9497sm2.jpg
 
Odie,

THAT. IS. AWESOME!!

Kind regards & great respect,
Rich
 
RichColvin said:
Odie,

THAT. IS. AWESOME!!

Kind regards & great respect,
Rich
Click to expand...


Thank you, Rich........:D

You know........I always seem to be more critical of my own work, than others are. :rolleyes: I think that's an important aspect of an intent to keep improving, and I hope I never lose that! ;) It's OK to have a certain amount of satisfaction in what you have created, and I do feel that with this one, but if the intent is to never lose the desire to critically observe one's own work, learn from the experience, and continually improve, then that should be a never-ending process......o_O

Good day to you, sir! :D

-----odie-----
 
My question is why use a waste block?
When starting out it looks like there was at least 3/4" of wood that needed to be removed from the center therefore a face plate could have been attached with multiple short screws and then the underside could mostly be finished including a dovetail recess. The maple used should be more than strong enough to mount the platter with the expansion dovetail for finishing the face plus it allows for remounting if polishing is needed during the finishing process. The photo below shows a makeshift finishing chuck that I have mounted to a small gear motor to rotate the piece as I spray it.101_1268.JPG
 
Using a waste block is my preferred method of mounting a bowl. Using a chuck, IMHO, is indispensable for roughing bowls for seasoning, but I use the more antiquated waste block method when finish turning. I started turning prior to the time woodturning chucks were commonly available to us (now in my 37th year of exclusively turning bowls), so my development is based on my own unique journey. Staying with my "roots" is a personal preference on my part, and allows me to have distinction in a world where most turners use a chuck for final turning. It does require effort to use a waste block, where a chuck has advantages of simplicity. Using a waste block gives me a certain freedom of foot design not available to me when using a chuck.

It's not that a bowl looks "unfinished", but rather a preference in what a waste block offers in it's own advantages.

There is also a great advantage of safety with a waste block, in that there are no edges or protrusions that inhibit working close to the chuck. (Shown below is my method of breaking away a parted bowl using a drum brake adjustment tool.)

-----odie-----

1681 zebrawood (14).JPG IMG_1219.JPG
 
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Odie,

How do you hold the bowl to remove the remaining waste from the bottom?

Kind regards,
Rich
 
RichColvin said:
Odie,

How do you hold the bowl to remove the remaining waste from the bottom?

Kind regards,
Rich
Click to expand...


Rich......not sure I understand the question correctly. :confused:

When breaking away the bowl from the waste block, I hold the drum brake adjustment tool in my right hand, and reach over the top to grip the bowl near the top with my left hand. (I'm using my left hand in the above photo to hold the drum brake adjustment tool, because I'm holding the camera with my right hand!......just the opposite of the way it would normally be held.)

Edit note: Insert the drum brake tool 90 degrees to the grain direction of the waste block. That way it breaks away easily, and cleanly.......

(Some of the young-uns among us, probably don't even know what a drum brake adjustment tool is! :rolleyes: )

After separating the waste block, I use Oneway Jumbo Jaws to turn the foot.......(shown below)

-----odie-----
IMG_1225.JPG
 
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odie said:
Just finished a 15 3/4" bowl and can't go much larger. The swing on my Woodfast lathe is 16", but I think I can go about 16 1/4" before it rubs the bedways. Just wondering how close to the bedways other turners will go, and feel comfortable about it......:eek:

Also, how slow can the rpm be, and still have a good parting cut on a pine waste block?

-----odie-----
View attachment 30096

-----odie-----
Click to expand...
Odie: Beautiful work. I personally consider it "street legal" if I can turn the blank-work just clear of the ways. I find that I only check clearance once on the initial blank mount and I can't figure why it matters if it clears by 1 inch or .25 inch because all of our tool work happens somewhere in the center of the piece and if we drop anything (sandpaper holder, etc.) then it is usually thrown toward the back of the lathe (reverse sanding) or our belly button. Have you had something bad happen in the past that concerns you about ways clearance? Is so, please share because I'd surely like to hear about it. In regard to waste block parting...I use a vacuum chunk for everything now (except for eating ice cream) but I have done my share of glue blocking too in the past. My technique was to use a handsaw for the last bit of parting...only because I had spent so much time finishing the piece by that stage of the process that I could not tolerate the pain (not to mention having to expend my very limited reserve of curse words) of possibly letting it hit the floor on a live parting miscue.
 
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Donovan Bailey said:
Odie: I personally consider it "street legal" if I can turn the blank-work just clear of the ways. I find that I only check clearance once on the initial blank mount and I can't figure why it matters if it clears by 1 inch or .25 inch because all of our tool work happens somewhere in the center of the piece and if we drop anything (sandpaper holder, etc.) then it is usually thrown toward the back of the lathe or our belly button. Have you had something bad happen in the past that concerns you about ways clearance? Is so, please share because I'd surely like to hear about it. In regard to waste block parting...I use a vacuum chunk for everything now (except for eating ice cream) but I have done my share of glue blocking too in the past. My technique was to use a handsaw for the last bit of parting...only because I had spent so much time finishing the piece by that stage of the process that I could not tolerate the pain of possibly letting it hit the floor on a live parting miscue.
Click to expand...

Howdy Donovan, and thanks for your reply. :D

No, I've never lost a bowl when parting the waste block. I've always had the same concerns that I might, though. I usually make the part so there is about 1" to 1 1/2" left in the center......and then use the brake tool to break it away. Some turners may have more concern if they have significantly out-of-balance pieces, because this could apply oscillating pressure, enough to break the center while the the bowl is spinning. My normal speed for parting the waste block is around 600rpm, but I'm going to try to do the subject bowl of this thread at a slower speed. Right now, the finish is curing, and I have several other bowls in progress to work on in the meantime.

Having a vacuum chuck is something I've considered for quite a long time, but never done it. I might someday, but not seeing a great need for it, since I've had such great success with my current methods. In the very infrequent times I want another option, such as natural edge bowls, I have a home-made Grumbine chuck........(shown below) I would imagine a vacuum chuck is far superior to the Grumbine chuck.

-----odie-----
Image069.JPG
 
One important aspect of particle board, is it maintains it's shape, and doesn't warp. For the Grumbine chuck, it's perfect for that reason.....although one notable drawback is it's weak compared to a solid piece of wood. Great care is necessary to keep from over-tightenting, because of that! :eek:

I used particle board for my Delta drill press table more than thirty years ago, and it's still as flat as the day it was installed! :D

-----odie-----

Image071.JPG IMG_2399 - Copy altered.JPG
 
odie said:
One important aspect of particle board, is it maintains it's shape, and doesn't warp. For the Grumbine chuck, it's perfect for that reason.....although one notable drawback is it's weak compared to a solid piece of wood. Great care is necessary to keep from over-tightenting, because of that! :eek:
Click to expand...

You might be interested in an article by Alan Lacer on the STRAKA chuck.
Down load journal 23-1 and go to page 50.

I met Bill at Totally turning in 2005. We had fun discussions about teaching and demonstrating.
He’s a great guy but he did not invent the Straka chuck or make notable improvements.

I use the straka chuck in my ball in a ball demo and for workshops. A lot easier to carry than a vacuum pump.
It’s a handy thing to have.

I learned it from Bob Marshall around 1996.


Al



2CBE9ABE-5A78-4D6F-91AD-77B0C86B6FFC.jpeg
 
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hockenbery said:
You might be interested in an article by Alan Lacer on the STRAKA chuck.
Down load journal 25-3 and go to page 50.

I met Bill at Totally turning in 2005. We had fun discussions about teaching and demonstrating.
He’s a great guy but he did not invent the Straka chuck or make notable improvements.

I use the straka chuck in my ball in a ball demo and for workshops. A lot easier to carry than a vacuum pump.
It’s a handy thing to have.

I learned it from Bob Marshall around 1996.


Al
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input, Al. :D

Personally, I'm satisfied with the methods I've developed, and I'm not interested in changing my course. Regardless, I'm sure there are others who would consider the Straka chuck for their own purposes......:)

-----odie-----
 
odie said:
Thanks for your input, Al. :D

Personally, I'm satisfied with the methods I've developed, and I'm not interested in changing my course. Regardless, I'm sure there are others who would consider the Straka chuck for their own purposes......:)

-----odie-----
Click to expand...
??? Don’t understand what you mean. Have you stopped using the Straka chuck?
 
hockenbery said:
??? Don’t understand what you mean. Have you stopped using the Straka chuck?
Click to expand...

I was aware of the Straka chuck concept.....it's not new......you would have to walk in my shoes to know how my own evolution has brought me to where I am. :D

-----odie-----
 
odie said:
I was aware of the Straka chuck concept.....it's not new......you would have to walk in my shoes to know how my own evolution has brought me to where I am. :D

-----odie-----
Click to expand...
??? I’m not following you.
I thought you were using the straka Chuck.
Was that a picture of someone else’s straka chuck on a woodfast
 
hockenbery said:
??? I’m not following you.
I thought you were using the straka Chuck.
Was that a picture of someone else’s straka chuck on a woodfast
Click to expand...

The Grumbine chuck is similar, but the concept differs. It uses a ball to hold the interior of a bowl that would otherwise not be flat to the base piece. I use entirely different methods to secure bowls that are flat.

-----odie-----
 
odie said:
The Grumbine chuck is similar, but the concept differs. It uses a ball to hold the interior of a bowl that would otherwise not be flat to the base piece. I use entirely different methods to secure bowls that are flat.

-----odie-----
Click to expand...
As I said earlier Bill did not make any significant improvements to the Straka chuck.

Bob Marshall showed me the stand off trick in 1996.

When you read the article there is picture of the standoff.
E12EF42F-9D6F-4874-AF1A-D37E54E37340.jpeg
 
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Hopefully, maybe a few here will be introduced to the Grumbine and Straka chucks, Al......for myself, I have no interest in covering ground previously covered. Thanks.

-----odie-----
 
Not to be confused, are Straka, Grumbine, and “the amazing donut chuck” all the same? What are the main differences and advantages/disadvantages of these chucks for finishing the bottoms of bowls?
 
Brandon Sloan said:
Not to be confused, are Straka, Grumbine, and “the amazing donut chuck” all the same? What are the main differences and advantages/disadvantages of these chucks for finishing the bottoms of bowls?
Click to expand...

The AAW article has a lot of the pros and cons.
They are the same.

Advantages:
Whatever is inside the donut hole is completely exposed to be turned sanded etc.
Solid dependable grip
holds balls for hollowing.


disadvantages:
set up time is lengthy unless doing the same size piece.
Often have to remove a bolt to get a piece in and out.
Can be a challenge to hold slightly out of round work
Not good for thin work
Can’t turn or sand on the parts of the bowl underneath the top disc.
Not good for turning footless round bottoms - can’t see the curve you want to blend into.


I finish almost all the bowl bottoms or hollow form bottoms reverse chucking on the lathe with the tailstock for support. This works really well for me. It’s quick. No pressure on thin walls. I do end up with a tiny piece of wood in the center that has to be sanded flush. 20 seconds with 220.

Vacuum chuck is a lot more versatile and quicker to set up than the straka.
 
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