How big of a recess?

[Neil S]

Bill's scorecard or chart above suggests that recesses are easier to make. I don't agree. Both a tenon and a recess need to be properly made to get a secure hold, so they should probably be scored as the same, but for me, the tail stock gets in the way of making a proper recess. Mounted between centers, there's no getting around the tail stock, and on a screw I worry if it will hold well and safely.... YMMV

In recent decades I turn almost all of my bowls/platters/hollow-forms outboard without the use of a tailstock. I turn outboard primarily for my back but it also allows me to get good direct visibility and access to give the recess and foot close attention. Although it may never be closely looked at (by non-turners) I like to leave a nice little surprise waiting there should the piece ever be turned over. If they work out that is how the piece was held while being turned then all the better!

I have never found making the recess for holding purposes easier or quicker than making a tenon. IME, there is far less tolerance with a recess and is the reason why I would always begin a novice using tenons where the jaw fit doesn't need to be so precise and there it a lot more wood to hold onto, that is unless you bury the recess deep inside the piece, but then the foot design options become very restricted.

 

[Bill Alston]

I made a dovetail scraper many years ago but never used it after I saw several folks using a skew chisel for the job. In all cases I saw, the recess was the last operation done on the outside of a bowl and the tail stock had already been moved out of the way.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I use a tenon almost exclusively but this seems like one of those things that woodturners say, when the reality is 99 percent of people who buy something have no idea that the foot on the bottom was a recess that was held in a 4 jaw expanding chuck.

Perhaps, but I've read/watched this opinion from a number of woodturners. Personally, I don't care if it's a mystery. But people buying your bowl might. /shrug

 

[Bill Alston]

I think a buyer might guess how it was held if it has a hollow in the base. I’m not sure they would though if it had a small elegant foot?
Do buyers actually care though? Probably not.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I think a buyer might guess how it was held if it has a hollow in the base. I’m not sure they would though if it had a small elegant foot?
Do buyers actually care though? Probably not.

I would imagine there are more than we think. I know some people that aren’t turners but are buyers that if they turned a bowl over and saw a mortise they would set it back down and walk away. I am not willing to lose a sale because I was too lazy to take five minutes to make it nice.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I made a dovetail scraper many years ago but never used it after I saw several folks using a skew chisel for the job. In all cases I saw, the recess was the last operation done on the outside of a bowl and the tail stock had already been moved out of the way.

Pretty hard to do for those turners that turn between centers don't you think ??

 

[Marc Banka]

I think a buyer might guess how it was held if it has a hollow in the base. I’m not sure they would though if it had a small elegant foot?
Do buyers actually care though? Probably not.

I think it depends on your target audience and price point. Visible mounting methods likely work for $30 farmers market bowls, but not for $300 bowls at art shows or galleries.

Perspective buyers will very rarely explain to you why they set your work back. If yours are in-person sales, people feel a need to say something, even if they see defects; sanding marks, uneven finish, poor form or just plain ugly. They might say something like, “Sure is shiny”, or “That’s a beautiful piece of wood. Love the grain!”

Why do perspective buyers look at the bottom? It’s not just woodturners checking your method. It’s because you can’t see the entire piece without lifting it and turning it over. It’s because we have curiosity, we want the whole picture. There might be information there, species, artist, PRICE!

Especially for higher price points, the buyer doesn’t care how the piece was mounted,,or which gouge was used, or if a gouge was used at all. These things aren’t typically of interest, and seeing evidence of your craft lowers the appeal and price. Your craft should be completely transparent, invisible.

 

[robo hippy]

Rusty, you will not find any scratch or tool marks in any of my bowls. I sell bowls in ranges from $5 to $300, and in fancy art shows and at Farmer's Markets. I have never had anyone ever complain about the bottoms of my bowls. If you want to take the extra 5 minutes, go ahead, but I will make more money on mine because I don't take that extra time. Time is money in business.

robo hippy

 

[Jeff Scott]

After all the good advice you have received, this may be redundant. I use a Oneway Stronghold chuck, and I have have 4 sets of dovetailed jaws. I have made a number of bowls the size you are dealing with. I adhere to the rule of thumb that the tenon should be 30% +/- the diameter of the bowl., which, with a Stronghold chuck, would mean either the #3 or #4 jaws. I would make the tenon 1/4" long/deep.
Rather than mounting a square bowl blank, I would use a compass to show the circumference of the bowl, and use my bandsaw to cut the blank. Failing that, I would still draw a compass circumference, and cut 45 degree angles at each of the four corners. Neither of these is absolutely essential, but it makes easier on the woodturner!

 

[Patrick Norris]

After all the good advice you have received, this may be redundant. I use a Oneway Stronghold chuck, and I have have 4 sets of dovetailed jaws. I have made a number of bowls the size you are dealing with. I adhere to the rule of thumb that the tenon should be 30% +/- the diameter of the bowl., which, with a Stronghold chuck, would mean either the #3 or #4 jaws. I would make the tenon 1/4" long/deep.
Rather than mounting a square bowl blank, I would use a compass to show the circumference of the bowl, and use my bandsaw to cut the blank. Failing that, I would still draw a compass circumference, and cut 45 degree angles at each of the four corners. Neither of these is absolutely essential, but it makes easier on the woodturner!

Thank you Jeff!

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Rusty, you will not find any scratch or tool marks in any of my bowls. I sell bowls in ranges from $5 to $300, and in fancy art shows and at Farmer's Markets. I have never had anyone ever complain about the bottoms of my bowls. If you want to take the extra 5 minutes, go ahead, but I will make more money on mine because I don't take that extra time. Time is money in business.

robo hippy

I never said anybody would find scratch or tool marks on your work. The subject was an unfinished mortise on the bottom. I am not a production turner and the five minutes is well worth my time. I don’t think it makes mine worth more but I know more people will be attracted to them being completely finished. At least in my area.