Am considering the (full size) Hollow Master. This can be viewed at http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5023. If any of you have experience with this tool or one that you consider to be better, would appreciate your input. Thank you.
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Hollow Master
- Thread starter gary7
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The hollow master is not a bad starter tool for those wanting to make small hollow forms. The standard straight cutter works ok as long as you do not have too much cutter extended out. You can get some good dig ins if you are not carefull.The round disc cutter does not work overly efective because if you turn the tool upside down the cutter is in an awkward position because you want to use this in a shearing action. Using it in the normal position with the flat on the bar does not give you a shearing cut.
I prefer the Rolly Munro tool for all of my hollow forms whether small open forms through to large closed in forms as it is a very safe tool to use. In the way the cutter is guarded so as to eliminate dig ins.
I prefer the Rolly Munro tool for all of my hollow forms whether small open forms through to large closed in forms as it is a very safe tool to use. In the way the cutter is guarded so as to eliminate dig ins.
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for general hollowing most folks use a straight tool and a bent tool.
I have a decided preference for those with a 3/16 inch cutter.
I suggest you consider either the Bosch or Jordan tools
Bosch hollowing tools http://www.trentbosch.com/ or Craft supplies
or the
Jordan Hollowing tools http://johnjordanwoodturning.com/tools.htm or Packard Woodworks
I have slight preference for the Bosch tools because the tips are held in with CA glue. The Jordan tips are held in with a set screw. Set screws work fine most of the time but I have lost them in shavings, had them lossen when turning, and wear out. I have never had a CA glued tip come loose when turning.
You will need to make or buy a handle for these tools.
I'm a strong proponent of the someting like the jamieson handle
The Bosch 5/8 shank is nearest the Sorby and the Jordan 1/2 tools are a bit smaller than the sorby.
Check with your local club. There is probably somone who can make you a set of small hollowing tools and show you how to use them. Start small and move up.
Happy Turning,
Al
I have a decided preference for those with a 3/16 inch cutter.
I suggest you consider either the Bosch or Jordan tools
Bosch hollowing tools http://www.trentbosch.com/ or Craft supplies
or the
Jordan Hollowing tools http://johnjordanwoodturning.com/tools.htm or Packard Woodworks
I have slight preference for the Bosch tools because the tips are held in with CA glue. The Jordan tips are held in with a set screw. Set screws work fine most of the time but I have lost them in shavings, had them lossen when turning, and wear out. I have never had a CA glued tip come loose when turning.
You will need to make or buy a handle for these tools.
I'm a strong proponent of the someting like the jamieson handle
The Bosch 5/8 shank is nearest the Sorby and the Jordan 1/2 tools are a bit smaller than the sorby.
Check with your local club. There is probably somone who can make you a set of small hollowing tools and show you how to use them. Start small and move up.
Happy Turning,
Al
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I use tools with outriggers and handles as much as possible for hollow and extended reach turning. It is almost a must with my arthritis. One source for tools are the ones made by Al Basham. Sometimes I will even use vise grips clamped down for the left hand to help resist twist and torque. Your Sorby Hollow masters are minimal tools for short overhangs in my opinion, and yes I do have them. GT
http://www.albasham.com/catalog/ind...Path=2&zenid=77340c661b27a8f8e8ddd88f8991d220
http://www.albasham.com/catalog/ind...Path=2&zenid=77340c661b27a8f8e8ddd88f8991d220
Hi Gary,
My Hollowmasters are my favorite tools. I've use a variety of other hollowing systems and just like the feel of them. I also disagree about the round tip. If you flip it, you have the round side of the tool against the rest and can shear scrape easilly. Also, I use it as my primary hollowing bit and don't use the straight bit much at all.
As noted above, the depth of hollowing is quite limited, with the big tool doing about 9" at best and the smaller most useful for 6" or less. Within this range, however, they've got a great feel.
Notably, when you're using the larger, gooseneck tool you have to be very careful. If you brace the tool on the curved part you lose all of your torque advantage and become instantly very unstable. If you move the rest back so that you're bracing on the straight section, this improves.
Finally, a couple of hints. First, always set the tool rest as high as you comfortably can and still get inside easilly. This lets you lever the cutting bit upwards into the wood and gives you lots more control and reduces vibration(if it catches, it automatically disengages). Second, ditch the stock handles and turn yourself some nice, extra-long handles to give you better leverage when you're extended way out. Finally, start with the smaller, straight one rather than the larger gooseneck. Easier to learn with and the gooseneck isn't needed till you're doing large vases with wide shoulders.
Great, versitile tool.
Dietrich
My Hollowmasters are my favorite tools. I've use a variety of other hollowing systems and just like the feel of them. I also disagree about the round tip. If you flip it, you have the round side of the tool against the rest and can shear scrape easilly. Also, I use it as my primary hollowing bit and don't use the straight bit much at all.
As noted above, the depth of hollowing is quite limited, with the big tool doing about 9" at best and the smaller most useful for 6" or less. Within this range, however, they've got a great feel.
Notably, when you're using the larger, gooseneck tool you have to be very careful. If you brace the tool on the curved part you lose all of your torque advantage and become instantly very unstable. If you move the rest back so that you're bracing on the straight section, this improves.
Finally, a couple of hints. First, always set the tool rest as high as you comfortably can and still get inside easilly. This lets you lever the cutting bit upwards into the wood and gives you lots more control and reduces vibration(if it catches, it automatically disengages). Second, ditch the stock handles and turn yourself some nice, extra-long handles to give you better leverage when you're extended way out. Finally, start with the smaller, straight one rather than the larger gooseneck. Easier to learn with and the gooseneck isn't needed till you're doing large vases with wide shoulders.
Great, versitile tool.
Dietrich
Need Multi Tip Tool also
Gary
You should look at the Sorby Multi Tip tool first or at the same time. It is the straight version of the same tool. I bought the straight version first and just got the bent Hollow master last week. Based on the Multi tip I know the hollowmaster will do what I need done which is better reach around the lip.
Jim's comment about the disc cutter is true, it doesn't work well, at least how they recomend sharpening. I have sharpened mine the same as my other scarpers and I get better results but never like Sorby shows in thier video.
Go to the Sorby website and ask for thier free CDs. It is promo material but even as advertizing it is better instruction than the written instruction that comes with the tool.
Just buy both, 'He who dies (lives) with the most tools wins' when you really get good at hollow forms move up to a larger or a captured system. My challenge with hollow forms is find stock that I think will make a good hollow form. Too many bowl and platter blanks in my collection and very few 'vase' like pieces. Maybe because I long for a bigger bandsaw.
Frank
Gary
You should look at the Sorby Multi Tip tool first or at the same time. It is the straight version of the same tool. I bought the straight version first and just got the bent Hollow master last week. Based on the Multi tip I know the hollowmaster will do what I need done which is better reach around the lip.
Jim's comment about the disc cutter is true, it doesn't work well, at least how they recomend sharpening. I have sharpened mine the same as my other scarpers and I get better results but never like Sorby shows in thier video.
Go to the Sorby website and ask for thier free CDs. It is promo material but even as advertizing it is better instruction than the written instruction that comes with the tool.
Just buy both, 'He who dies (lives) with the most tools wins' when you really get good at hollow forms move up to a larger or a captured system. My challenge with hollow forms is find stock that I think will make a good hollow form. Too many bowl and platter blanks in my collection and very few 'vase' like pieces. Maybe because I long for a bigger bandsaw.
Frank
Beside what the others have suggested, you should conside David Ellsworth's hollowing tools. They are not expensive and a good starting set. Ellsworth Hollowing Tools You will need to either make your own handles or buy one that will fit the shank size such as the Kelton, Bosch or Oneway. Handles can be purchased from all the well known suppliers.
If you want to spend more money, look at the Kelton Hollowers. They can be purchased from Craft Supplies Craft Supplies and Lee Valley Tools Lee Valley Tools. You will get the best deal from Lee Valley Tools. There are others that sell these tools.
Also look at the Sorby RS2000 hollowing systems with the armbrace. Craft Supplies
I have used them all. I currently use a boring bar and swivel cutter I made and the Kelton system with an outrigger. Saves the back when working deep. I especially like the mini and small Kelton hollowers. Very small diameter shank for small openings.
Good luck with your decision. There are certainly many options.
Ed
If you want to spend more money, look at the Kelton Hollowers. They can be purchased from Craft Supplies Craft Supplies and Lee Valley Tools Lee Valley Tools. You will get the best deal from Lee Valley Tools. There are others that sell these tools.
Also look at the Sorby RS2000 hollowing systems with the armbrace. Craft Supplies
I have used them all. I currently use a boring bar and swivel cutter I made and the Kelton system with an outrigger. Saves the back when working deep. I especially like the mini and small Kelton hollowers. Very small diameter shank for small openings.
Good luck with your decision. There are certainly many options.
Ed
Hollomasters...
I simply couldn't do without all it's versatile capaibilities.
Easy to use, do a lot of wonderful shavings, and if you dig through a small hole just do as Helsworth advise you to :"close your eyes and hear and feel what you do; any way you cannot see what you are doing" 😉
I simply couldn't do without all it's versatile capaibilities.
Easy to use, do a lot of wonderful shavings, and if you dig through a small hole just do as Helsworth advise you to :"close your eyes and hear and feel what you do; any way you cannot see what you are doing" 😉
Yeah. I just kinda gaze off and feel the tip. I like this so much more than the capture and armbraced rigs that I'm having a friend make me a super-giant beast of a sorby type tool. Should be able to go at least 18", maybe even 24. Will probably weigh in at about 25lbs or so.
Dietrich.
Dietrich.
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
I don't have that particular one, but I have a smaller swan neck, the Ellsworth, a Bosch, one from Jordan, a rig from Jamieson, McNaughtons bars (in 1/2" and 3/4") and a homemade captive rig in 3/4" and 1".
Each has it's plus' and minus. I almost always start with the Ellsworth because of the great feel and tactile feedback but they can take some getting used to. If you have bad wrists, don't go this route.I will often go back to the Ellsworth for cutting the bottoms.
I really like the angle of the Bosch and the Jordan, but like the way the mcnaughtons cut and their predictability. They have a wide tip so in most NA hardwoods, they cut real well.
I recently bought the McNaughton 1/2" for sub 6-8" HF with smaller openings and use those in Trent's (Bosch) lighter weight handles.
The captive rigs are a must (I think) if you are doing large, wide or a larger vessel without a whole lot of angle in the top, where you would have to swing the tool way to the side to get into the corners.
Each has it's plus' and minus. I almost always start with the Ellsworth because of the great feel and tactile feedback but they can take some getting used to. If you have bad wrists, don't go this route.I will often go back to the Ellsworth for cutting the bottoms.
I really like the angle of the Bosch and the Jordan, but like the way the mcnaughtons cut and their predictability. They have a wide tip so in most NA hardwoods, they cut real well.
I recently bought the McNaughton 1/2" for sub 6-8" HF with smaller openings and use those in Trent's (Bosch) lighter weight handles.
The captive rigs are a must (I think) if you are doing large, wide or a larger vessel without a whole lot of angle in the top, where you would have to swing the tool way to the side to get into the corners.
I like the Ellsworth type of tools a bunch. I make them from drill rod and a 3/16" bit just like David does. Learned it from him. Very inexpensive if you make your own. I also like the Stewart system a bunch when I am turning something with an opening of about 1" or larger. The Stewart "hooker tool" is dandy. Easy to use and easy to adjust. You can use either a 3/16" bit or a scraper tip. I know that I should try the Jamison tool. That is next on the list. Good luck!
Hugh
Hugh
Dietrich - so you are going to do large hollowing with a free-hand tool? That sounds like it could be unwieldy. I thought most of the larger stuff is done with captive systems.
I never built the large hollowing system which I considered last year. I got distracted with work but it's still on my mind. It would be nice to go 18"-36". There's something about those large vases which draws me in and want to take a look.
I never built the large hollowing system which I considered last year. I got distracted with work but it's still on my mind. It would be nice to go 18"-36". There's something about those large vases which draws me in and want to take a look.
Weellllllll,
It probably ranges from unstable to really stupid but I still wanna try it. I plan to end up with a tool that is about 6' long to handle the torque and 1-1 1/2" square stainless steel for the body. What was that comment about he who dies with the biggest tool?
Dietrich
It probably ranges from unstable to really stupid but I still wanna try it. I plan to end up with a tool that is about 6' long to handle the torque and 1-1 1/2" square stainless steel for the body. What was that comment about he who dies with the biggest tool?
Dietrich
That will definitely be a big tool. I'll be interested to hear the results. And if something happens can you have your wife type in the results. 😀
Seriously, wouldn't it be a lot safer to build out a captive system for deep hollowing? Isn't most or all deep hollowing done with captive systems?
Seriously, wouldn't it be a lot safer to build out a captive system for deep hollowing? Isn't most or all deep hollowing done with captive systems?
I actually have a captive system but I want the mega-sorby-on-roids hollower to play with. Total cost of materials is only about $50-75 and I'm guessing that it will actually work pretty good. Not sure if I'll be doing DEEEEEEP hollowing with it but would do great for 12-18".
I mean, I just really love the feel and feeback you get from the Sorby type hollowers. I don't thin wall my vessels anymore (been there, done that, got the leftover vases that noone wants cause they feel like balloons to show for it) and a good, symetrical and appropriate feel and weight are more important to me now. I just have an easier time feeling this with the handheld hollower.
I also have gotten to the point that I really don't catch anymore when I'm deep down inside so I'm not worried too much about that. I save my catches for the outside and for early on, when I knock chunks out of the mouth and sides.
Dietrich
P.S.(I'll make sure the wife knows to inform folks if things go REALLY wrong)
I mean, I just really love the feel and feeback you get from the Sorby type hollowers. I don't thin wall my vessels anymore (been there, done that, got the leftover vases that noone wants cause they feel like balloons to show for it) and a good, symetrical and appropriate feel and weight are more important to me now. I just have an easier time feeling this with the handheld hollower.
I also have gotten to the point that I really don't catch anymore when I'm deep down inside so I'm not worried too much about that. I save my catches for the outside and for early on, when I knock chunks out of the mouth and sides.
Dietrich
P.S.(I'll make sure the wife knows to inform folks if things go REALLY wrong)
Thanks for the reply Dietrich. It will be interesting to hear how it works out.
I'll just add that I reserve my catches for those final cuts when most of the piece is already sanded and ready to go, and I'm just paring off that little nub on the base.
I'll just add that I reserve my catches for those final cuts when most of the piece is already sanded and ready to go, and I'm just paring off that little nub on the base.
- Joined
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I bought a Scorpion set from Don Pencil after reading great reviews of it. He has some blemished units for a great discount right now that I couldnt resist. I will get them next week. after I try them I can give you my opinion on them.
Hi Gary,
I also have the smaller swan neck hollower. These type of tools can be VERY CATCHY! It take a bit to understand these swan tools and use them correctly. I aggree with the post earilier stating you are best to raise the tool rest and use the tool at an angle. If not, you will find the tool to grab and the tip will jump to a different position. Of course I have never expereinced this 😀 O.K. maybe I have 🙄 If you are not in a hurry to get the tool ask someone in your club to let you try theirs at a meeting or something. This is a great topic and opportunity for all to learn. That way you get to try before you by and others may learn as well.
I also have the smaller swan neck hollower. These type of tools can be VERY CATCHY! It take a bit to understand these swan tools and use them correctly. I aggree with the post earilier stating you are best to raise the tool rest and use the tool at an angle. If not, you will find the tool to grab and the tip will jump to a different position. Of course I have never expereinced this 😀 O.K. maybe I have 🙄 If you are not in a hurry to get the tool ask someone in your club to let you try theirs at a meeting or something. This is a great topic and opportunity for all to learn. That way you get to try before you by and others may learn as well.
Beaver Hollowing Tool, Swan's Neck
Thanks to all for your replies. However, no one ever mentioned the Crown, Beaver Hollowing Tool, Swan's Neck (see this tool at: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4596). Has any one used or have an opinion about this tool?
Thanks to all for your replies. However, no one ever mentioned the Crown, Beaver Hollowing Tool, Swan's Neck (see this tool at: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4596). Has any one used or have an opinion about this tool?
$$$$$$$$$$$$
that's about twice the price of hallow master, i have never used it, but i have the hallow master and it works fine up to 6 or 7 inches, it is hard to use the hallow master at 3 and under because of the size of the round scraper, i have limited ability and skill but i enjoy the inward curve on a bowl 😎
that's about twice the price of hallow master, i have never used it, but i have the hallow master and it works fine up to 6 or 7 inches, it is hard to use the hallow master at 3 and under because of the size of the round scraper, i have limited ability and skill but i enjoy the inward curve on a bowl 😎
Actually, the way I'm hoping to set up my Hollowzilla will allow me to use sorby/ellsworth type tips, Beaver type tips, and Kelton type tips. I could probably even use Kelton gouge tips with it.
I WILL BE LIKE A GOD!!!!!!!!!!!
😱
Sorry. Got a little carried away there.
Dietrich
I WILL BE LIKE A GOD!!!!!!!!!!!
😱
Sorry. Got a little carried away there.
Dietrich
As a "Wood Finish King", I thought you were already!!!!!
Hugh
Hugh
I like it when people get carried away with woodturning :cool2:
Gotta have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hugh
Hugh
I'm not actually a god. Just kinda god-like.
Dietrich
Dietrich
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
It would have been far more convincing if I could have heard the Muhahaha (sinister laugh) to accompany the phrase.
Dietrich - you're only god-like until that hollow-zilla tears off a hunk of wood larger than your hand. Then we'll be reading about the results when your wife posts them!
Well, 6 foot of tool will put me well past the end of the lathe so I'm guessing I can watch the explosion take out my ceiling lights (and probably a fair amount of the ceiling with it) from there. 😀
Dietrich
Dietrich