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Hey Culligan Man - Weights

Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
122
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1
Location
Central Kansas
Website
www.georgetroygraphics.com
I made a shelf and put 6 bags - 300 labs under my Powermatic. The salt is for the water softener downstairs in the house. Now I can just pull one and carry into the house as needed. Makes good inventory and use of space. I don't turn large out of balance pieces, but I might. GT
http://groups.msn.com/PowermaticLatheOwners
 

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Don't know about that. Unless it's pretty good NaCl, it could contain hygroscopic elements (CaCl, for one) to pull water from the air, which would make the salt fluid and your powermatic stand could end up looking like a 6-year-old Chevy on a midwest street.
 
Hi John,
That blue thing is part of the frame of a Dave Reeks Hollowing tool setup. The clamp is universal, height will fit anything from a 12" swing to a 25" swing. You can put a variety of shaft sizes in the holder say from 3/8"-1". The shafts extend into the holder rig. The Reeks setup came from Larry Elizondo who had it for some time. I sold my Kelton rig because it was too heavy for me. The Reeks Hollowing tool use to be available from Craft Supplies a couple years back. Not sure.
 
To Mouse,
The salt has an inter plastic liner to reduce changes of melting before it's time. More than likely the bags will be rotated as required. You got to have moisture before you get rust and in Ks right now; and I think for ever we are one dry state. So rust away. GT
 
OK on your confidence in the sealed plastic. From a guy who has CaCl spread on his gravel road to settle the dust, you'd be surprised what that stuff can pull out of dry air. Road looks and acts wet. NaOH, another hygroscopic salt is also a pretty common occurance.

However that may be, thought I'd get in a whack at conventional wisdom and offer up some ideas on lathe weighting. Yours is the more common "weeble" approach, where it may wobble, but not fall down. Convenient to put the weight centered under the axis of rotation and all, but there's a better way. Look at the diagrams attached. Before the engineering types jump in, yes I know that the perpendicular to the tangent should run through the axis of rotation, which makes the "equal and opposite" out of line. Bear with me, it's simple thinking. Those who want to get more complicated can look into http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html and update themselves on angular momentum and such.

The place to put the weight is the place farthest from the axis of rotation, to increase the moment of inertia, and to the rear, because the tangent vector indicated at ten o'clock wants to do two things, compress the front leg, which it can't, unless you have rubber feet, and lift the rear leg in one of those equal but opposite reactions. How far out should the front legs extend? radius plus perhaps 20% should work.

Those interested in stability should realize that the moment of inertia varies with the square of the distance from the axis of rotation, then, in case you have a heavy spot far from the center, remember its energy varies with the square of velocity. If that doesn't make you want to trim things up as well as possible prior to swinging and start as low as possible, nothing can. All this load, plus others, is taken on your bearings, and possibly on you if careless.
 

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My friend who owned one of the first 3520 powermatics turned hollow vessels with one side missing. he had to spin them very fast and caused a lot of vibration. To solve this he put 1/2" thick angle iron that was 4" on each side under the lathe bolted to the legs. It extended 2 feet out on the turning side and 4 feet out on the backside. This lathe was extremely stable.
 
underdog said:
I dunno about weighting a lathe, but ran into this idea a while back, and wondered whut you ex-sperts have to say about it:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/3jdw8/latheoutside2.htm

This fellow advocated putting the weight on an arm above the lathe.

Whaddya think? 😕
I saw that some time ago and I think it is absurd from more aspects than I care to mention. Dynamics-wise, it is like installing a huge tuning fork on the lathe. It is also dynamically unstable (as in an inverted pendulum), which means that when you do hit a resonance, it may shake the fillings out of your teeth before you can react to stop it from throwing a log across the shop (it might make a bit of sense, if you were turning a large bunch of identical items). It would make a lot more sense to have the weight cantilevered below the headstock, but even that is not a smart solution. In general, designing mechanical systems with purposefully added structural compliance for the purpose of "tuning" out a resonance is not a good thing to do unless there is no other practical alternative. And, then in that case, it is necessary to insure that the operating envelope is sufficient to leave wide stability margins.

I appreciate Michael's evaluation of the problem and solution. I have not taken the time to analyze it, but my initial impression is that it is based on a statics analysis (i.e., the forces and moments during steady state operating conditions), but I think that a dynamics analysis might show that for all practical purposes weighting down the shelf on the lathe stand as done in the top photo above is about as good as anything.

One other comment that I have about stabilizing a lathe headstock is that making it absolutely stiff may not be a good thing for the average lathe spindle bearings (that use a single row of balls). If the headstock were to be made absolutely stiff WRT ground, the entire load of a heavy "out-of-balance" (in engineering terms: a load with non-zero cross products of inertia) piece of wood would be carried by the spindle bearings -- not to forget that the impulse loads that are also added to this when roughing a very large piece of wood on the lathe. The typical practice of weighting down the base of a lathe allows enough freedom of motion to reduce the stresses on the bearings considerably.
 
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Wow, lots of good info about lathe weighting that I had not even thought about. Thanks for the thread!

BTW- I store my bags of salt near the water conditioner, buy'em from a box store in heavy plastic 40 lbs bags. Even in the plastic bags they rust every thing they touch. I'll agree that our average high humidity here on the gulf coast is a big factor, but no way would I ever put them close to any of my rustable tools.
 
PM stability

Couple years ago I put 250 lbs of sand, in bags on my shelf. Since then, having dropped a few tools into the sandbags, the sand runs out thru the holes and makes the load lighter. But, since my turning has improved I have not replaced the sand and all seems quiet. Note: just be careful of what you use to give yourself some stability. It could kill you?? Phil
 
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