Help with 1Way Talon Chuck

[Chris Dinsmore]

I have a 1way Talon chuck that I have been using for over a year now. It has been great & problem free. After taking some time off turning for health reasons I started making some small cherry bowls last week.

Yesterday I was turning 1 of the little bowls and had a catch. Odd thing was the base jaw popped out along with the profile jaw. It was set up to expand into the recess and seemed fairly stable. Well except for the flying metal projectile of course.

I took it off and went about putting the Base jaw back on. I have done this quite a few times and never had an issue. But this time it is not going on. When I twist it on it gets hard to turn because it is pressed up and creating burs on on of the side guides.

I took several chisel to it and cleaned it up good but still no help.

ANY ideas on fixing it would be greatly appreciated!

Chris

 

[Odie]

I have a 1way Talon chuck that I have been using for over a year now. It has been great & problem free. After taking some time off turning for health reasons I started making some small cherry bowls last week.

Yesterday I was turning 1 of the little bowls and had a catch. Odd thing was the base jaw popped out along with the profile jaw. It was set up to expand into the recess and seemed fairly stable. Well except for the flying metal projectile of course.

I took it off and went about putting the Base jaw back on. I have done this quite a few times and never had an issue. But this time it is not going on. When I twist it on it gets hard to turn because it is pressed up and creating burs on on of the side guides.

I took several chisel to it and cleaned it up good but still no help.

ANY ideas on fixing it would be greatly appreciated!

Chris

Chris......I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what parts you are calling the "base jaw" and the "profile jaw".

There are the "chuck slides", which engage the scroll, and the jaws are attached to it with screws.

To my thinking, there is nothing there that should come off with any catch, without being so huge as to cause damage to the chuck.

Could it be you're talking about the interchangeable jaws that came loose? If so, aren't these attached to the chuck slides with a couple of machine screws? Is it possible the threads are stripped?

Need more clarification on exactly what came off, or loose......

ooc

 

[Gynia]

On one of the profile jaws is a small pin which protrudes from the bottom of that jaw. In the chuck face (as seen which the jaws removed) are two small slots milled into the face of the chuck. One slot is shorter than the other. The chuck is designed so that the pin from the profile jaw fits into the milled slot. Use the short slot when you are learning to use the chuck or teaching a novice. The short slot will prevent the jaw slides from extending out beyond the chuck body. The longer slot is used by more experienced turners and permits the profile jaws to expand as wide as the chuck can safely be expanded.

Some turners remove the "safety" pin. Some times the pin breaks off. If the pin is intact and the jaws are fully seated in the jaw slides then the only way a jaws slide could come free of the chuck is for one or more of the protrusions on the bottom of the jaws slide (the part which engages with the chuck scroll) must be broken off or part of the scroll is broken.

If the jaw slide will not go back on then perhaps the chuck should be taken apart, cleaned and inspected. Parts which are damaged should be repaired or replaced.

The jaw slider and the scroll are hardened steel. The chuck body is milled from a solid block of steel. The chuck body is more likely to be damaged than the slides or scroll. Some light file sing and sanding should restore the matting surfaces of the chuck body.

 

[Owen Lowe]

I've never heard of such a thing happening...

I'm wondering if the scroll jaws were extended out so far that the one that came out was barely engaged with the scroll. Weird that being in expansion mode it would have had the clearance to fly off.

* Does the scroll work smoothly with the 3 jaws still on the body? If not then the scroll may be damaged.

* If you remove one of the other scroll jaws and swap places with the one that came out, does the scroll work smoothly? If so, then the issue is not with the chuck body or scroll but the scroll jaw that came out.

* Does the "damaged" scroll jaw fit smoothly in another scroll jaw's position?

I'd disassemble the chuck to examine the scroll and test the sliding fit of the chuck body and scroll jaws without the scroll in place. You should be able to isolate what is binding by testing it step by step.

 

[hockenbery]

Adding to what Gynia posted.
The pin jaw can go into two slots a long and short one.

For any jaw to come out the pin must have been removed or sheared off.

Talon has the screw on jaws and the real jaws which have teeth facing the scroll teeth
And screw holes for the attaching the different jaw sets.

The pin keeps you from opening the chuck so far as to disengage a single tooth from the scroll The talon has 3 maybe 4 teeth
You would have had to have had all but one off the scroll threads for a jaw to come out.
You need a bigger jaw set or a smaller tenon so that all jaw teeth are engaged.

Take all the jaw set off. Take one other jaw out mark it and the slot it came from. Compare the teeth of your problem jaw. They may have become damaged. Check the spiral teeth on inside the chuck.
Call ONEWAY. They can sell you replacement jaws.

If all the threads are okay. Put on the jaw you marked backon the scroll lead thread and then put the jaw that went AWOL back in.
The jaws have to be put In in order. 1, 2, 3, 4. You put each on the lead thread as you close the chuck.
Most likely jaw 4 came out.
If not remove any higher jaws and thread them on in order.

Good luck,
Al

 

[Chris Dinsmore]

Ok, let me see if I can clarify here.

The terms I am using are directly from the Oneway website Talon manual.

I am a big fan of covering the obvious issues first & have been through them.

I have removed the profile jaws as to eliminate the possibility they are the issue.

This has nothing to do with the pins. The jaw that cam loose was opposit of the pin. The profile jaw with the pin was properly installed and the opin is intact.

The other three slots work just fine with any of the 4 base jaws installed. The slot that won't work, doesn't work with any of the 4 base jaws.

I am sure I was close to extending the jaws to far. I probably should have used different profile jaws, but I didn't. That milk has been spilled.

I may have killed the dang thing, but wanted to get some other opinions first. It's not a failure I would expect to see. It's like the grooves in that slot have been damaged and are pushing the base jaw upwards causing further damage. I have been filing like crazy but to no avail. If I figure out a way to photograph it, I will post them here.



Thanks!

 

[hockenbery]

Chris,

It you have a damage to the slot, I suggest you call ONEWAY.

A turning catch should not damage the chuck.

If the slot was bent in such a way as to let the jaw escape that Is a serious issue. One that ONEWAY should be made aware of.

It may be related to a defect in materials or a result of some other damage to the chuck such as dropping it.

I've had a talon for12-15 years ( seems like forever)
I've never heard of a problem like you describe.
Time to call ONEWAY.

Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

My thought is that either you do not have the jaws installed in the proper sequence or that the last "tooth" of the jaw base that engages the scroll has broken off. My inclination is to believe that the former is responsible.

I am also very inclined to believe that Gynia and Al have a valid point. The roll pin may still be on the profile jaw, but I have a hunch that it has been pressed into the jaw a bit so that it is not properly engaging the slot in the body.

I can't imagine how a chisel could be used to do a very good job of cleaning up any burrs in the metal. A much nicer job of repair could be done using a small triangular file.

In any case, you should call Oneway Mfg. and discuss it with them. They are the real experts and will solve your problem.

 

[Bill Boehme]

One more idea -- look on the back side of the chuck to check the snap ring. Is it properly installed in its slot and in good condition so that the scroll and ring gear assembly is being held firmly in place?

While you are looking, does the scroll or the mating teeth on the profile jaws show any signs of deformation? How much torque do you apply when tightening the chuck?

 

[Chris Dinsmore]

Pictures

I have a full set of metal files I have been working on it with.

Here are a couple pictures that may or may not help. I highlighted the picture so you can see where the burs are located.

I am posting this on the Oneway Site as well, and will call them tomorrow to see if I can get some help. If I get a resolution I will share.

Thanks for all who have taken the time to respond, I greatly appreciate your efforts.

-Chris

 

[flyrod444]

I have had to repair a few OneWay Chucks with this problem in the High School Shop I teach at. This occurs when one of my students open the jaws so hard that they shear the roll pin off and this allows the inner Jaws to open to far. It puts indentions on both the inner jaw and the chuck body grooves that the inner jaws slide on. I take the Jaw completely apart even the split ring so that the large gear can be removed. I then use a small triangular file to clean up the grooves on both the chuck body and the inner jaw that slides in the groove. You can get new roll pins from an auto part to put in the jaw to limit it from going out to far and put the thing back together and you should be good to go. I have actually ground down small pieces of allen wrenches to replace the sheared off roll pins for my high school shop. They seem to hold up to the students abuse better. Telling a High school students not to open up the jaw this much is easier said than done. It is very important for you to keep the chuck clean so that it opens and closes easily and never open it up past the limit of the roll pin and you will never have this problem again.
Good Luck,
Jack

 

[john lucas]

Chris We need photos that are sharp and in focus to be able to tell anything.
I agree with Bill about the inner jaws being out of order. That would make it possible to throw one jaw. The best way to tell this is to close the jaws all the way. The should end up exactly centered if installed in the correct order.
If you can't get the jaw to go all the way back in then there must be a burr somewhere on either the helical thread in the body of the chuck, the teeth on the back of the jaw or most likely the grooves and dovetail that let the jaw slide.

 

[flyrod444]

The marks in the picture are hard to see but they are there just like the ones I've had to repair in the past. When one shears the pin off and opens up the jaws past the intended limit and applies pressure on clamping down the jaws on a large tenon, it flexes the inner jaws just enough to put the indentions in both the inner jaws and the grooves in the chuck body. Clean these up with a small triangle file takes a bit of effort, but is better than waiting for the slow mail service out of the USA and Back again.
Jack

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have had to repair a few OneWay Chucks with this problem in the High School Shop I teach at. This occurs when one of my students open the jaws so hard that they shear the roll pin off and this allows the inner Jaws to open to far.

I don't have any trouble visualizing this to be a problem in a HS shop, but I am happy to hear that your school actually still has shop classes.

You can get new roll pins from an auto part to put in the jaw to limit it from going out to far and put the thing back together and you should be good to go.

Also they can be found at many good hardware stores that have a broad selection of open stock parts. While at it, might as well get a set of pin punches too. They are not expensive and will make the job of repair go so much more smoothly than trying to make do using things not meant to remove roll pins.

Have you ever considered enlarging the hole for a larger roll pin -- or does it not really matter when a gorilla gets ahold of the chuck.

The marks in the picture are hard to see but they are there just like the ones I've had to repair in the past. When one shears the pin off and opens up the jaws past the intended limit and applies pressure on clamping down the jaws on a large tenon, it flexes the inner jaws just enough to put the indentions in both the inner jaws and the grooves in the chuck body.

Very good call. The pictures were too fuzzy for me to make heads or tails out of them, but since it is a familiar problem that you have dealt with, there was enough information in the images for you to make a determination of the cause.

 

[Chris Dinsmore]

Fixed!!!

The marks in the picture are hard to see but they are there just like the ones I've had to repair in the past. When one shears the pin off and opens up the jaws past the intended limit and applies pressure on clamping down the jaws on a large tenon, it flexes the inner jaws just enough to put the indentions in both the inner jaws and the grooves in the chuck body. Clean these up with a small triangle file takes a bit of effort, but is better than waiting for the slow mail service out of the USA and Back again.
Jack

Jack,

Thanks for your insight! It confirmed what I was doing and kept me working at it. It wasn't easy to do but after a few hours of tedious filing I was able to get the grooves cleaned out.

I am mostly a completely "self taught" turner. Learning by reading books, articles, and watching YouTube Videos. In the beginning I made some big mistakes based on a lack of knowledge. Like not knowing there were pins on the underside of the jaws. I had sheared the pin off the #2 jaws within a day of acquiring my chuck.

Thanks again to everyone that took the time to respond to my posts. Between health issues and family commitments I have been unable to get involved in my local turners association. I Love woodturning and without forums like this one, I would likely of given up long ago.