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Help Wanted

Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
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Location
Williamsburg Virginia
Hello fellow Turners, Just installed my Jet 1642 EVS and having a ball. I have only been turing a very short time and was previously using a Shop Smith. Was able to score some walnut but I am having a real problem with tearout. I am using the EWT system and just can't seem to overcome this situation. 🙁I am also gettin a lot of dust along with the shavings. Not sure how long this wood has been down as it was a gift from a fellow turner. Needless to say any help would be greatly appreciated.

Earl
 
Those are scrapers and will give more tearout than a cutting tool. take lighter cuts and speed up the lathe a little. If you take heavy cuts with those tools you are just making the problem worse. Green Walnut has a tendency show tearout and fuzz pretty bad when scraping.
You might try shear scraping. tilt the tool on it's side so the cutting edge is being pulled across the wood at about 45 degrees. this is more of a shear cut however most people who use shear scraping do so with a burr raised on the edge and these tools don't have that.
If your going to turn much of this buy a good bowl gouge and learn to sharpen and use it. you will be much happier with the final results. It does have a longer learning curve than the EWT however.
It's kind of like finishing. there aren't any easy ways to get the best job done.
 
Don't give up on the EWT. On some woods it really works wonders and certainly has a very short learning curve. However on some woods it's just not the best tool and green walnut is one of those.
If you are turning a side grain bowl. That is a bowl where the grain runs perpendicular to the lathe bed. There will still often be minor tearout or at least fibers that are raised at 2 points around the inside of the bowl. If you imagine the grain running from 9 to 3 the tearout will be at about 10:30 and 4:30. The reason is this point is where you are cutting against the grain. It's hard to describe in words and I'm assuming your cutting from the lip down toward the bottom.
On greenwood bowls what I will sometimes do is put wax on this area and try a lighter cut with a sharper tool. Occasionally I will force dry just the surface using a hair dryer. These are techniques that really only work with proper cutting technique. Sometimes the shear scraping that I mentioned will work.
Bill Grumbine's video on bowl turning will go a long way toward helping you learn to use the bowl gouge which is the preferred way to turn a bowl. You might also look for a local club and see if you can visit another turner and learn from them. If you'll tell us where you are we will try to find a club near you.
 
A bowl gouge properly used will do the trick. Yes, you will have to learn how to properly sharpen and use the tool. Dust typically indicates a dull tool, so does tearout. "One tool to replace all" type of sales gimmicks have been around for years/centuries, and while the ewt has some merits, it does nothing for the skillset of tool handling or sharpening as you are finding out.
 
First things first. You are not turning the nose or edge into the rotation, right? Too many people just haven't thought through the basics of edge and wood, and remember that turning is carving set to power. All the rules about side slip that we use in knives and carving tools apply. You whittle uphill or up grain at peril. Same applies for carving, even when you establish a stop cut. Don't do it on the lathe.

Idea is to let the wood slice itself down the edge of the tool as presented. Means controlling the shear and the skew of the tool so you don't get too broad in the first, or allow the wood to come over the back of the edge with the second. Then you want to cut down hill and, with luck, down grain. Those two pesky spots mentioned are where the trouble starts. More obvious with walnut because the light scattered by torn fiber contrasts so starkly against the darker background.

My solution is to revert to the old ways before the cylindrical "bowl" gouge was foisted upon us. The old boys used forged tools with consistent thickness and bevel angle whether narrow in sweep or broad, hook tool or gouge pattern. If the slope is slight, the tool can shear broadly, but where it steepens, the shear is best reduced, though the skew may be broadened for consistent depth of cut reference.

Take your knife to a piece of whittling stock and see what effects shear and skew produce. Or carve with a fairly broad sweep across the grain. It'll be the same on the lathe, only the work will move, and the tool remain stationary. As a final demonstration, increase the pitch angle (for standard wood vs. edge terminology see http://homepages.sover.net/~nichael/nlc-wood/chapters/caop.html Fig A-1:2) and watch how the resistance increases at the same shear and skew. That's why scraping takes a steady, light hand. Also why we'd rather cut where we can.

You've received advice about getting a bowl gouge. To compensate for the uneven depth of metal which comes with the cylindrical design, people recommend grinding back the ears and cutting with them. Take a look at this photo and consider which of the tools is more controllable.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Gouge-Curves.jpg

Or encounters no interference from the rest, banjo or even the work itself as you attempt to get the skew angle that allows you to shave rather than lift. Worth acquiring one for final surfacing. They don't plunge well at all because of the broad sweep, so use that "bowl" gouge or your ancient long and strong/narrow hook for that work.
 
The learning curve

Thanks a millon to all for this data. What I am discovering is wood turning like other things takes patience and dedication....I did take a bowl turning course at my local Woodcraft Store (Richmond Virginia) and used a fingernail bowl gouge. I guess no one tool does it all and one must listen to others who have gone before. Back to the Woodcraft store for more tools.

Earl
 
ewt tear out

I would echo everything said already and simply add that along the way you will also learn that different species of wood will behave differently. Open grain woods like walnut, oak and even some tight grain woods like sycamore can demonstrate alot of tear out when not cut properly or when scraped with a dull tool or poor angle. Although EWTools have their place, they can only scrape and scraping is rarely the best approach for getting a clean surface or for general stock removal. New wood turners tend to gravitate towards what is simplest or easiest (often that is scraping), and in doing so often remain beginers longer than needed because they don't develop the skill or understanding of how to make good cuts. Turn safely, get some instruction on making good cuts, but don't be afraid of making mistakes along the way. We grow by repitition, and also by pushing the limits of our abilities until they expand.
 
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