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help in wood identification

john schmidt

john schmidt

Joined
Apr 11, 2009
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Location
Iowa
i recently acquired a bit of cut wood that i can't identify and need help.. i got some cottonwood, which i recognize, but among the cut down cottonwood i got some logs that don't match. it has a little finer bark pattern, more like ash, but from there i'm lost. the sapwood is almost white but the heart is very dark green to dark brown, i first thought maybe walnut but once i turned a piece that was eliminated. its very wet yet and a few pieces have some rot in the heart that is almost black . this came from near river bottom and the only leaves i could find were from cottonwood. it is pretty hard for being green. i've done some staghorn sumac but its not that. heavier and harder than staghorn and darker green.. any ideas ? thanks john
 
I think you can rule out hop-hornbeam. It likes its feet dry, and the broad light sapwood transitions to a mild brown. Never seen a green.

I'd bet on a cottonwood relative like balsam poplar if you had said it was soft. Black ash likes it damp, but it's not particularly hard, either. Green ash would fill the habitat bill, and might look as you describe if it were borer-damaged and making mineral stains. http://www.forestryimages.org/images/768x512/3056007.jpg Or how about a soft maple like A. rubrum? It would be a bit up the hill, but it does have greenish to brown heartwood.
 
i know its not red maple, i was leaning toward some poplar variety, i've seen the green tones in some but never anything this dark, maybe it was infected with a borer or disease there is a lot of rot in some of it and maybe the darkness is caused by that..
 
John:

Where in Iowa are you? Any chance of posting a close-up photo of the end grain? Or send a piece of the wood to me in Ames, and I'll identify it.

Without better data, confirmation of diagnostic characters, description of cell sizes/patterns, etc., or images it's hard to ID anything without seeing a sample.

For example, this could also be hackberry (Celtis occidentalis) with mineral or fungal stain. Mature hackberry heartwood often takes on a greenish color around here in central Iowa. The bark character might fit your description (....or it may not...? 😕)

Could also be green ash (Fraxinus pennsylvanica), but we don't know if it is ring porous or not; heartwood is not usually differently colored from sapwood, etc. Too may unanswered questions.

Any species I suggest would be just as much of a guess as the next one.

If you are planning on attending the AAW Symposium in St. Paul, you can come to my wood identification demonstration, bring a sample of the wood, and we can see if it's possible to put a name on the sample, or send a small chunk to me if you want a quicker ID - try to include some bark and be sure to have heartwood and end grain in any sample sent.

Rob Wallace

Mailing address:

Dr. Robert Wallace
Dept. of Ecology, Evolution and Organismal Biology
Iowa State University - 253 Bessey Hall
Ames, Iowa 50011-1020
 
Black locust can be dark green and it is certainly hard. Not all varieties have thorns, I understand. Don't know where it grows or whether the bark is similar to cottonwood, so maybe that rules it out?
 
john schmidt said:
rob , i live in west bend ia. about 90-100 mi. nw of ames. i put a slice of wood in the mail today for you to check out. thanks you can email me at johnpaula79@hotmail.com
Click to expand...

OK John! I'll look for it early next week (likely will arrive by Monday or Tuesday).

If you ever are heading to the Ames area and would like to attend our chapter meeting (Ames Area Woodturners), we usually meet from 1-4 pm on the Sunday before the last Sunday of each month (although we're not meeting in June this year so members can attend the AAW Symposium). We have a member in Eagle Grove which is about as close to you as our membership extends, but you're more than welcome to visit any time.

If you're coming through this area at other times, let me know and you're welcome to visit my shop and talk some turning.

I'll have a look at the wood, do some slices, and put a name on your sample.

Have a great weekend!

Rob Wallace
 
wood id

the more i see, the more it looks like black or tulip poplar with possibly mineral stain. but as i turn it and it dries it tends to get just a little lighter in the dark greens
 
Well, it turns out that John's wood sample sent to me was identified as Black Walnut (Juglans nigra).

The wood sample clearly showed a difference in coloration between dark heartwood and light-colored sapwood; it is semi-ring porous, with tyloses present, also with small parenchymal rays, and deeply furrowed bark. The nail-in-the-coffin character was the chambered pith; a small part of this was fortunately included in the sample he sent.

Given the range of 'guesses' from those participating in this thread (all of which had merit given the characters provided), it shows the importance of knowing and determining useful characters of the wood before an identification is made. There is a qualitative difference between wood recognition and wood identification - I will make this point much clearer during my demo at the AAW Symposium in St. Paul, using real examples!

Rob Wallace
 
thanks rob wallace

got an answer on my wood i d problem. thanks to rob it's identified as black walnut. from a small tree or branch..it pays to be a botanist. got time for another one rob?
 
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