Has Anyone Successfully Turned Live Oak?

[Don Bomer]

I am Blessed to own ten acres of land in the Texas Hill Country, WSW of Austin. It is mostly wooded with Mountain Juniper (that we call Cedar around here, but it isn't) and Live Oak.

Although I have considerable other wood to turn, I can't help to think of all that oak. However, I've been told that it's no good for turning "because it moves too much." Looking at the living trees, such as the ones just outside my back yard in the attached picture, I can understand that. The trees often have several abrupt bends, sometimes exceeding 45 Degrees, in both the trunks and branches. If you've ever seen a Live Oak you know what I mean.

Has anyone turned Live Oak and found it to be stable enough for any use?

 

[hockenbery]

Live oak is a favorite of mine cause it turns so nicely.
most all oaks I prefer using for one time turnings.
Hollow forms, Natural Edge bowls, natural edge goblets

I also use green live oak a lot in demos for turning balls. No dust and scrapes well.
The 3” balls have never cracked but the end up looking like eggs. I have plan to use some in a sculpture .

The is an old photo of oak bowls in progress lower left crotch is live oak the one on the right might be but probably laurel oak This oal goblet is probably Laurel oak Live oak does nicely for these if you can find a straight limb with an off center pith so the pith is not in the stem.

 

[David Hill]

Hi--not too far away from you--to the East.
I have turned Live Oak. Gives some really pretty patterns but is HARD, dense and really heavy so sharp tools are the rule. Come to think of it---been a long while since I used Live Oak--was using carbides then but now use the "real" chisels now because I like the results better. I have some that has set a while and may try it soon---but I never get tired of the Mesquite.

 

[Paul Gilbert]

I love live oak when it is green. Turn thin and let it go wild. One of the most beautiful live oak bowls I have ever seen was turned ultra thin and then sand blasted leaving only the growth rings and the interlocking rays. It resembled lace. I have never attempted sand blasting wood that thin. I am sure I would blast a hole in it after spending hours almost finishing it.

 

[Don Bomer]

Thanks for the quick reply Hockenberry,

I especially like the lower left crotch bowl from that photo. The goblet is excellent too.

I am an inexperienced turner, still learning, and watching videos nearly every day. I'll absolutely try some Live Oak, and even cut down a tree so it will be green I probably have some Post Oak too as the next street over has that name. And also a huge Pecan limb that's almost 3' diameter plus some other trees that I've either cut for drying or will cut someday. Anyway, enough wood to last several lifetimes at the rate I get to the shop.

Got off topic there... I look forward to turning Live Oak and again thanks for your input...

Live oak is a favorite of mine cause it turns so nicely.
most all oaks I prefer using for one time turnings.
Hollow forms, Natural Edge bowls, natural edge goblets

I also use green live oak a lot in demos for turning balls. No dust and scrapes well.
The 3” balls have never cracked but the end up looking like eggs. I have plans to use some in a sculpture.

The is an old photo of oak bowls in progress lower left crotch is live oak the one on the right might be but probably laurel oak View attachment 27838 This oak goblet is probably Laurel oak View attachment 27839 Live oak does nicely for these if you can find a straight limb with an off-center pith so the pith is not in the stem.

 

[Don Bomer]

Hi David, and thanks for your input.

I have some dry Live Oak that was cut for firewood several years back. But I'll probably try green wood first. I like what you and Hockenberry had to say about that. I've primarily used carbides so far but just I have an 8-Piece Box of Benjamin's Best that I've tried. Also just got a couple of Crown's ProPM bowl gouges and a set of CBN wheels from Ken Rizzo to sharpen them all.

I love the appearance of Mesquite. I don't have any growing on my property but it's always found on the Austin Craig's List...

Hi--not too far away from you--to the East.
I have turned Live Oak. Gives some really pretty patterns but is HARD, dense and really heavy so sharp tools are the rule. Come to think of it---been a long while since I used Live Oak--was using carbides then but now use the "real" chisels now because I like the results better. I have some that has set a while and may try it soon---but I never get tired of the Mesquite.

 

[Don Bomer]

Hi Paul, and thank you also for your reply.

I'm probably way too green myself (as a turner) to attempt ultra-thin turnings but the idea of sandblasting the wood into lace is fantastic. But I will definitely be turning some green Live Oak in the near future...

I love live oak when it is green. Turn thin and let it go wild. One of the most beautiful live oak bowls I have ever seen was turned ultra thin and then sandblasted leaving only the growth rings and the interlocking rays. It resembled lace. I have never attempted sandblasting wood that thin. I am sure I would blast a hole in it after spending hours almost finishing it.

 

[David Hill]

Hi David, and thanks for your input.

I have some dry Live Oak that was cut for firewood several years back. But I'll probably try green wood first. I like what you and Hockenberry had to say about that. I've primarily used carbides so far but just I have an 8-Piece Box of Benjamin's Best that I've tried. Also just got a couple of Crown's ProPM bowl gouges and a set of CBN wheels from Ken Rizzo to sharpen them all.

I love the appearance of Mesquite. I don't have any growing on my property but it's always found on the Austin Craig's List...

 

[David Hill]

Well—, be happy to meet you sometime— not that far away. i started out like you—-using carbides, but not so much now.
I have lots of Mesquite that I use now, but do have some really hard Live Oak slabs that I could part with now— seems that stuff gets harder like concrete.

 

[Donovan Bailey]

In general, I think it is an accurate generalization to say that for some reason the oak tree family does not seem to be valued very highly in the turning community. Now that is truly a shame because it is a pleasure to turn, it finishes great, and the wood patterns are beautiful. Of course all oaks are not the same. For instance, red/scarlet/black oak has a really open grain...but white/live oak has a much more dense grain construct. Anyhow, don't pass up an opportunity to whirl some oak no matter what variety comes your way. I don't think you will be disappointed.

 

[Allen Howell]

I have turned some Live Oak, too, and enjoyed it, but nobody has brought up this issue yet. Any raw metal on the lathe will likely turn black from the moisture in the Oak. Wiping the lathe ways will help, but I would suggest a good coat of wax or other preferred lubricant/sealant before turning.

 

[hockenbery]

@Allen Howell Does have a point.
Not nearly as messy as Norfolk Island Pine.

My hands were clean when I started rough hollowing a live oak bowl -

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flw8LwQqGQU

 

[Don Bomer]

Thanks Allen, good point. I'll definitely do that.

I have turned some Live Oak, too, and enjoyed it, but nobody has brought up this issue yet. Any raw metal on the lathe will likely turn black from the moisture in the Oak. Wiping the lathe ways will help, but I would suggest a good coat of wax or other preferred lubricant/sealant before turning.

 

[Don Bomer]

Right at 100 miles according to Google Maps. I'm 9 miles WNW of Wimberley, BTW.

Yes, I'd like to meet sometime. Let's see what we can do. I have plenty of standing Live Oak but only a couple of small pieces of cut and dry Mesquite. I also have quite a bit of cut & dried (1 year) Hackberry, the Pecan and Crabapple previously mentioned, a cut Bradford Pear, and a number of large Mountain Juniper ("Cedar") stumps that were killed when the land was cleared for sale almost 40 years ago. A couple of Cedar Elm, one 8" or so black walnut, and a similar-sized Escarpment Black Cherry, all standing. The MJ is very colorful and I plan to do a lot with it. That's my problem, I plan, and study videos, but don't TURN enough. Hopefully, my new 18/36 will get my butt moving...

Well—, be happy to meet you sometime— not that far away. I started out like you—-using carbides, but not so much now.
I have lots of Mesquite that I use now, but do have some really hard Live Oak slabs that I could part with now— seems that stuff gets harder like concrete.

 

[Don Bomer]

Hi Donovan, Good to know! Thanks for that info. I'm going to turn some tool handles out of Red Oak soon. Don't guess the grain will matter much there. A friend of mine once picked up a number of large pallets that were Red Oak. He resawed the inner 3X3's for trim on a couple of beautiful gun cabinets and gave me the scraps.

The first thing I turned was a glue block from white Oak, BTW. It was very dry, I was totally GREEN, and it beat me to death Hopefully I'll do better now. Looking forward to turning some green Live Oak...

QUOTE="Donovan Bailey, post: 142984, member: 37344"]In general, I think it is an accurate generalization to say that for some reason the oak tree family does not seem to be valued very highly in the turning community. Now that is truly a shame because it is a pleasure to turn, it finishes great, and the wood patterns are beautiful. Of course, all oaks are not the same. For instance, red/scarlet/black oak has a really open grain...but white/live oak has a much denser grain construct. Anyhow, don't pass up an opportunity to whirl some oak no matter what variety comes your way. I don't think you will be disappointed.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dean Center]

Don,
I can't speak to the other woods, but be sure to wear very good respiratory protection with the juniper. It is one of the more allergenic woods and can possibly cause asthma.

 

[Robert Johns]

I am Blessed to own ten acres of land in the Texas Hill Country, WSW of Austin. It is mostly wooded with Mountain Juniper (that we call Cedar around here, but it isn't) and Live Oak.

Although I have considerable other wood to turn, I can't help to think of all that oak. However, I've been told that it's no good for turning "because it moves too much." Looking at the living trees, such as the ones just outside my back yard in the attached picture, I can understand that. The trees often have several abrupt bends, sometimes exceeding 45 Degrees, in both the trunks and branches. If you've ever seen a Live Oak you know what I mean.

Has anyone turned Live Oak and found it to be stable enough for any use?

View attachment 27830

I have turned a number of live edge bowls and burls from live oak with much success. They have all turned out nice and are some of my favorites.

 

[Don Bomer]

Thanks Robert! It looks like I was misinformed. I look forward to trying it and I have enough for several lifetimes growing on my land...

I have turned a number of live edge bowls and burls from live oak with much success. They have all turned out nice and are some of my favorites.

 

[Don Bomer]

Thanks Dean, I always wear a respirator and just bought a new, better one...

Don,
I can't speak to the other woods, but be sure to wear very good respiratory protection with the juniper. It is one of the more allergenic woods and can possibly cause asthma.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

I had to look up "live" oak. The name apparently comes from the trees not losing their leaves in the winter. We have a similar looking oak in the NW which I've only heard referred to as scrub oak. It loses leaves in the winter.

I wonder if our NW scrub oak turns well. Not that I would even know where to find any since there isn't that much of it growing here. I see lots more of it down through Oregon and Northern California.

 

[hockenbery]

I wonder if our NW scrub oak turns well. Not that I would even know where to find any since there isn't that much of it growing here. I see lots more of it down through Oregon and Northern California.

I have never found any oak that is unturnable but have only tried at most 20 species.
All oaks are different. A large number of oak species have “scrub” in the common name so did not find your oak.

Most books divide oaks into red or white. Some books list the live oaks separately.

A fundamental difference between red and white is you can make barrel from white oak and a sieve from Red oak because of the large pores. Historically white oak and live oak we’re used in ship and boat building. The white oaks are rot resistant.
I prefer turning white oak over red oak. An exception is laurel oak quercus laurifolia which seems more like a white oak for turning and it has small pores.

These live oaks are either listed as White oak or live oak depending on the book
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_fusiformis Texas live oak - south central North America
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_geminata Sand live oak - southeastern US
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_virginiana southern live oak - southeastern North America

 

[Don Bomer]

I had to look up "live" oak. The name apparently comes from the trees not losing their leaves in the winter. We have a similar looking oak in the NW which I've only heard referred to as scrub oak. It loses leaves in the winter.

I wonder if our NW scrub oak turns well. Not that I would even know where to find any since there isn't that much of it growing here. I see lots more of it down through Oregon and Northern California.

Hockenberry seems to believe it will. Go for a drive and pick some up, then give it a try...

 

[Don Bomer]

I have never found any oak that is unturnable but have only tried at most 20 species.
All oaks are different. A large number of oak species have “scrub” in the common name so did find your oak.

Very interesting information indeed. Also good to know that the local variety is called "Escarpment Live Oak." I guess a Red Oak barrel would be a bit of a flop?

 

[Donovan Bailey]

Very interesting information indeed. Also good to know that the local variety is called "Escarpment Live Oak." I guess a Red Oak barrel would be a bit of a flop?

I've have had a couple of thin turned red oak bowls that had to be tinkered with to hold on a vacuum chuck due to the open pores.

 

[Don Bomer]

I've have had a couple of thin turned red oak bowls that had to be tinkered with to hold on a vacuum chuck due to the open pores.

I was thinking how bad it would be to cask some nice Pinot Noir in a red oak barrel. Would that which drains out be Pinot Blanc?

On a more on-topic note, I believe it was Captain Eddie that said he would tape the outside of a vacuum-chucked bowl that was porous...

 

[Donovan Bailey]

I was thinking how bad it would be to cask some nice Pinot Noir in a red oak barrel. Would that which drains out be Pinot Blanc?

On a more on-topic note, I believe it was Captain Eddie that said he would tape the outside of a vacuum-chucked bowl that was porous...

The wine experiment sounds like a hoot🙂 My fix was to stop and get liberal on some sanding sealer.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I have turned some Live Oak, too, and enjoyed it, but nobody has brought up this issue yet. Any raw metal on the lathe will likely turn black from the moisture in the Oak. Wiping the lathe ways will help, but I would suggest a good coat of wax or other preferred lubricant/sealant before turning.

Allen it is not water it is the tannins in the wood that are the bad culprit. Yes there will be lots of water in a green tree and that will lead to corrosion bu not as bad as the tannins in that water.

 

[Don Bomer]

Allen it is not water it is the tannins in the wood that are the bad culprit. Yes there will be lots of water in a green tree and that will lead to corrosion bu not as bad as the tannins in that water.

Good point Gerald, thanks...

 

[Breck Whitworth]

Don I'm a long time bowl maker and I have turned live oak enough to know about it. First and foremost if at all possible rough turn it green, then seal it with a good sealer and let it dry and warp or whatever it wants to do.( Be sure to clean your lathe and tools before you quit for the day) Now comes the tough part, finish turning it needs extra sharp tools even if that means resharpening in the middle of the process. Being an old high school coach and science teacher I use this analogy about turning live oak. Live oak is like a rough knot head student who doesn't listen or half try with an attitude, but if you stay the course and get a finished product it's worth all the headaches and troubles. Live oak eats sand paper like a goat. But I have never finished a live oak bowl that didn't have a special beauty. When a customer holds a live oak bowl they love the weight and it's density because they know it will last a life time. I said all that to say this, I don't turn that many live oak bowls any more because they are more work than most, but if the price is right or it's a special gift you can't beat it.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Green Live Oak turns like butter. Dry Live Oak turns like concrete.

 

[hockenbery]

I am with bill - I turn live oak and most other oak to finish while green- HF, NEbowl, goblet, vase, etc.
These are all thin walled to dry within 2-3 days.

Below is a live oak ball turned green in a demo as 3” ball
The green wood has little dust even with a little sanding.
I once did a ball demo with dry Osage Orange. Nice result but an experience to reinforce the idea of turning throwaway balls from green wood in demos.

These balls dry without cracking given no care whatsoever except an environment in the neighborhood of 50% RH.
This reinforces the greenwood with nice curves and even walls will usually dry without cracking because the wood can move as it dries. Small scale helps too a 5” ball would likely crack if given no care.

Dimensions of this ball are
2 15/16 x 2 12/16 x 2 11/15