I am at a bit of a loss here about all the fuss on the Tool Review thread, on just about all opinions.
First, I never understood what all the fuss about the "New" tool, the Easy Rougher was. It is not origional in any way other than the carbide tip. There is a tool here in Oregon that is only home made and has been around for ever. It is called the Big Ugly Tool. It is a scraper. You get a piece of 3/4 inch square stock about 30 inches long, and silver solder a piece of 7/8 wide by about 2 inches long tantung steel (I don't really know the specs about the steel, similar to carbide, but you can sharpen it on standard grinders) on both ends. You wear a heavy leather glove on your left hand to protect it from the sharp cutter. It was used by the coastal Myrtle wood turners here. You would sharped the tool on both ends at the beginning of the day. You use one end for half the day, and the other end for the other half of the day. If you haven't turned much Myrtle, it is rather abrasive on your cutting tools. The Big Ugly was used for roughing and finish cuts.
Personally, I use scrapers for roughing, and a lot of times for finish cuts. If you are looking to rough out as fast as possible, there are several deciding factors. One is how much horse power/torque do you have? Two is how much steel can you put to the wood? Three is how hard are you going to push. And 4 is how fast are you going to turn.
I have a Robust, so torque is never a problem. As to how much steel I can apply to the wood, well, a 3/4 inch scraper doesn't slow it down a bit until I get to the 18 inch bowls, but in the low speed/high torque range, it doesn't slow it down too much. A 10 inch bowl won't slow a 1 1/2 inch wide scraper down in the medium speed range at 1800 rpm (note, I am a production turner, and don't recomend this speed to anyone). With gouges, a conventional gouge (Stewart Batty/Mike Manohey type) only has about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of steel to put into the wood. A swept back grind has about an inch or more of steel you can sink into the wood. With the gouges, when roughing, you have the gouge on its side, so the wings are actually doing a scraping cut, while you can say that the nose is at more of a shear angle. The only real difference here is that a roughing cut with a scraper tends to send the chips up over the top of my hand rather than across the top of it like a gouge does. They all get the job done.
For roughing cuts, you always start slowly to take off all the high and lows before starting to really hog off the wood. It doesn't make any difference in which tool you use. You don't just stick any tool into the wood spinning at high speed unless you want to risk life, limb, and tools. At this stage, you can easily get into trouble by trying to take off more than you and your tool can chew. Bigger steel surfaces (tools) will grab more wood than smaller surfaces (tools). You gently feel out the surface on the first pass or two, then work more on the rougher sections, then when the blank is more round and balanced, you crank it up and watch the shavings fly. If you are putting more steel on the wood, this makes for more force on the handle. You need to keep the tool rest close. This (how much overhang you can get away with) is a limit that we probably all have experimented with and need to know. Equally important is what size of tool works best for you. This roughing is a bigger job if you are using chainsawn blanks, and a lesser job if you have a big bandsaw to get things really nice before you start, but still, the same principles. No one tool is more prone to catching than any other when properly applied. I could argue about a skew chisel, but the 'properly applied' part always comes up.
Finish cuts. Gouges and scrapers can both do just an equally fine job. It is the same steel, sharpened on the same grinder. You can hone them all as well. The only difference is in how you apply the tool. A scraping cut, done with either a gouge or scraper, won't give as fine of a finish cut in flat grain because it tends to pull. End grain is another story. A shear cut does a cleaner job because it is more of a slicing action. You can shear cut with all tools. With a scraper, some times you use a burr, some times you hone the burr off. Again, the same steel. You really can't 'shear scrape', You can shear cut and scrape cut. You really don't do both at the same time. The only real difference is if your tool is sharp or not. Maybe to some extent, who is weilding the tools of mass destruction can make a difference as well. I have seen very delicate light house spindles finish turned with the big ugly tool. As fine as any skew chisel can do. Any tool in the hands of a master.....
I have been using scrapers as my tool of choice for roughing my bowls for a couple of years now. They work better for me, and feel better in my hands for this type of work. After 11 years of turning, I still haven't done anything to the extent that I do it the same way every time. If I see some one doing some thing differently than I do, I will try it to see if I can find out what they do that I don't, and to find out what I can learn for them.
Will I ever get an Easy Rougher? Probably, just to see what it is like. Do I think it is really any different from my other tools? Compared to the Big Ugly, not really. Is it really 'easier' to use? Probably not, a 3/4 inch wide scraper is not a really agressive tool, and with leverage (don't let it hang too far off the tool rest), can over come a lot of mistakes that you wouldn't get away with on a bigger scraper. I don't like the idea of throw away cutters. My grinding wheels (CBN) will sharpen carbide though, so from that perspective, it might be worth the investigation.
All of God's children are different, some of us are more different than others. Author unknown to me.
robo hippy
First, I never understood what all the fuss about the "New" tool, the Easy Rougher was. It is not origional in any way other than the carbide tip. There is a tool here in Oregon that is only home made and has been around for ever. It is called the Big Ugly Tool. It is a scraper. You get a piece of 3/4 inch square stock about 30 inches long, and silver solder a piece of 7/8 wide by about 2 inches long tantung steel (I don't really know the specs about the steel, similar to carbide, but you can sharpen it on standard grinders) on both ends. You wear a heavy leather glove on your left hand to protect it from the sharp cutter. It was used by the coastal Myrtle wood turners here. You would sharped the tool on both ends at the beginning of the day. You use one end for half the day, and the other end for the other half of the day. If you haven't turned much Myrtle, it is rather abrasive on your cutting tools. The Big Ugly was used for roughing and finish cuts.
Personally, I use scrapers for roughing, and a lot of times for finish cuts. If you are looking to rough out as fast as possible, there are several deciding factors. One is how much horse power/torque do you have? Two is how much steel can you put to the wood? Three is how hard are you going to push. And 4 is how fast are you going to turn.
I have a Robust, so torque is never a problem. As to how much steel I can apply to the wood, well, a 3/4 inch scraper doesn't slow it down a bit until I get to the 18 inch bowls, but in the low speed/high torque range, it doesn't slow it down too much. A 10 inch bowl won't slow a 1 1/2 inch wide scraper down in the medium speed range at 1800 rpm (note, I am a production turner, and don't recomend this speed to anyone). With gouges, a conventional gouge (Stewart Batty/Mike Manohey type) only has about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of steel to put into the wood. A swept back grind has about an inch or more of steel you can sink into the wood. With the gouges, when roughing, you have the gouge on its side, so the wings are actually doing a scraping cut, while you can say that the nose is at more of a shear angle. The only real difference here is that a roughing cut with a scraper tends to send the chips up over the top of my hand rather than across the top of it like a gouge does. They all get the job done.
For roughing cuts, you always start slowly to take off all the high and lows before starting to really hog off the wood. It doesn't make any difference in which tool you use. You don't just stick any tool into the wood spinning at high speed unless you want to risk life, limb, and tools. At this stage, you can easily get into trouble by trying to take off more than you and your tool can chew. Bigger steel surfaces (tools) will grab more wood than smaller surfaces (tools). You gently feel out the surface on the first pass or two, then work more on the rougher sections, then when the blank is more round and balanced, you crank it up and watch the shavings fly. If you are putting more steel on the wood, this makes for more force on the handle. You need to keep the tool rest close. This (how much overhang you can get away with) is a limit that we probably all have experimented with and need to know. Equally important is what size of tool works best for you. This roughing is a bigger job if you are using chainsawn blanks, and a lesser job if you have a big bandsaw to get things really nice before you start, but still, the same principles. No one tool is more prone to catching than any other when properly applied. I could argue about a skew chisel, but the 'properly applied' part always comes up.
Finish cuts. Gouges and scrapers can both do just an equally fine job. It is the same steel, sharpened on the same grinder. You can hone them all as well. The only difference is in how you apply the tool. A scraping cut, done with either a gouge or scraper, won't give as fine of a finish cut in flat grain because it tends to pull. End grain is another story. A shear cut does a cleaner job because it is more of a slicing action. You can shear cut with all tools. With a scraper, some times you use a burr, some times you hone the burr off. Again, the same steel. You really can't 'shear scrape', You can shear cut and scrape cut. You really don't do both at the same time. The only real difference is if your tool is sharp or not. Maybe to some extent, who is weilding the tools of mass destruction can make a difference as well. I have seen very delicate light house spindles finish turned with the big ugly tool. As fine as any skew chisel can do. Any tool in the hands of a master.....
I have been using scrapers as my tool of choice for roughing my bowls for a couple of years now. They work better for me, and feel better in my hands for this type of work. After 11 years of turning, I still haven't done anything to the extent that I do it the same way every time. If I see some one doing some thing differently than I do, I will try it to see if I can find out what they do that I don't, and to find out what I can learn for them.
Will I ever get an Easy Rougher? Probably, just to see what it is like. Do I think it is really any different from my other tools? Compared to the Big Ugly, not really. Is it really 'easier' to use? Probably not, a 3/4 inch wide scraper is not a really agressive tool, and with leverage (don't let it hang too far off the tool rest), can over come a lot of mistakes that you wouldn't get away with on a bigger scraper. I don't like the idea of throw away cutters. My grinding wheels (CBN) will sharpen carbide though, so from that perspective, it might be worth the investigation.
All of God's children are different, some of us are more different than others. Author unknown to me.
robo hippy
