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Gouge grinding comparison

Tony K. in NC

Tony K. in NC

Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
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Location
Stokes County, NC
Website
www.atlaswoodworks.us
I now have my new thompson tools, Can't wait to try them out.
One of the main reasons for ordering a second 1/2 bowl was so that i could have different grinds for different jobs. Does anyone know of a site or anything that compares the different grinds side by side?

I know i will prolly try several but i want a reference to go by.
 
The Tormec CD that came with the latest issue of Woodturning Design magazine has a good bit on the comparison of bowl gouge grinds.

Charlie M
 
There's this one. http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml Of course all the famous names have grinds and gouge profiles on their sites.

Have a good time with the new steel. I find that the smaller gouges, required to get into smaller openings, need less wing to do the work I want. But I don't have duplicates, just different sizes to deal with. Unless you count my so-called "spindle" gouges which are, of course shallower versions of the others.
 
Probably gonna keep thompson grind

On the spidles at least, and my existing 1/2 bowl gouge hase the same grind as he puts on them, for my new one i will probably just bring my arm on the wolverine out a little to put a little blunter bevel on the tip then slide back in to put a secondary grind. this one will be mainly for my finish cuts on the insides of bowls once i hog them out with the pro-forme, my existing i will mainly use on outsides of bowls.
 
Seem to recall reading that Doug said he just puts a sort of "generic" grind on his bowl gouges because most of his customers have their own preferred grind. My 5/8" U came with a fairly coarse, nominal fingernail shape, which is just fine. I will tweak it slightly when I get to it.
 
that is true

But about the only difference between what he puts on it and what i have been using is i have the wings ground back a little further. got my handles made tonight. now to just get them touched up and make some shavings. Think i am going to put some hose on them like dan peebles does, my hands were black by the time i was finished.
 

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Richard you are right, the U shape tools can be ground a hundred different ways so it's impossible to get right... the whole idea is don't remove to much steel. After a someone else sharpens the tool it's their grind and the fact is no one sharpens the same.
 
When I got my first Thompson gouge (I now have 4) I put it in my Ellsworth jig, and the angle matched within about 1/2 of a degree, which is around 40 to 45 degrees. I never measured what it is exactly. I did sweep the edges back a bit more, but that is more from habit than anything else. If I was to change the grinds at all, I would use a flatter angle for getting through the transition, and across the bottom of the inside of a bowl. As is, I have 2 other gouges that have about a 75 degree bevel on them for that purpose. I guess if I was really excentric, I could have a couple of gouges each ground about 10 degrees more blunt from 45 to 75 degrees.
robo hippy
 
This photo probably won't help very many readers of this thread.....but, a few might, so I thought I'd throw it in! :cool2: The photo compares the grinds you'll get by using the Wolverine sharpening jig. The one on the top is the side grind using the Vari-grind jig in the V-arm, and the straight grind on the bottom is what you'll get by using just the V-arm.

Both of these grinds can vary quite a bit by changing the angle in which the tool is presented to the grinding wheel.

There are many jigs on the market that do the exact same thing as the Vari-grind jig, and many turners simply use a standard rest to do what the V-arm does......just not sweeping from side to side.

Still others, do the side grind (also called the Ellsworth grind) using a standard rest. Takes a "knack", and practice to do it this way, and many turners are very successful at it........ Me?.....I've grown accustomed to doing it with the jig, so that's my preferred method.

OOC
 

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Radical answer

Here's a radical idea -- Stu Batty's grind is 40 degrees for every bowl gouge and tip of spindle gouges, 30 degrees for wings of spindle gouges.

It really does make sharpening easier. One bowl gouge does the outside, rim and inside of bowls. Of course, you do have to learn to push cut the outside of the bowl.

It works wonders for me. (I grind all my Thompson gouges that way).

Dave
 
If you do steep sided bowls 40 degrees won't do. I have a Stewart Batty grind on one of my gouges and really like it for a lot of projects. It doesn't work for all of them and isn't as fast for roughing. I prefer a more blunt edge for roughing, it holds up better and doesn't need sharpening as often. I also have longer wings on my gouges. They help remove a lot of wood when taking large cuts. I noticed Graham Priddle has very long wings on his gouges. All of his gouges are ground exactly the same. So it just goes to prove that if you turn a lot, like Graham and Stewart, you will learn to use what ever grind you have.
I did the same. After years of turning I arrived at a gouge shape much different than either of the above. Mine had very long wings. I met Avelino Samuel some years later and he had arrived at the same gouge shape.
I now use a lot of different shapes because I'm learning that they all have some advantages. If I were to pick only one shape to live with it would be roughly David Ellsworths gouge shape.
 
john lucas said:
If you do steep sided bowls 40 degrees won't do. I have a Stewart Batty grind on one of my gouges and really like it for a lot of projects. It doesn't work for all of them and isn't as fast for roughing. I prefer a more blunt edge for roughing, it holds up better and doesn't need sharpening as often. I also have longer wings on my gouges. They help remove a lot of wood when taking large cuts. I noticed Graham Priddle has very long wings on his gouges. All of his gouges are ground exactly the same. So it just goes to prove that if you turn a lot, like Graham and Stewart, you will learn to use what ever grind you have.
I did the same. After years of turning I arrived at a gouge shape much different than either of the above. Mine had very long wings. I met Avelino Samuel some years later and he had arrived at the same gouge shape.
I now use a lot of different shapes because I'm learning that they all have some advantages. If I were to pick only one shape to live with it would be roughly David Ellsworths gouge shape.
Click to expand...

Yep, that Ellsworth grind is probably the best invention for bowl turners that has come along since woodturners stopped using machinist chucks and got a chuck that was purpose-built just for them! The grind is only half of the equation, though.....! The other half is the shape of the flute. As most of you know, the shape of the flute will greatly affect the shape and size of the most used portion of the cutting edge......the bottom of the cove. I've seen "V" shaped flutes, and "U" shaped flutes.....and each flute can vary greatly as to the angle, or slope of the sides, as well as the overall thickness of the sides. You can take two radically different flute shapes, grind them exactly the same way, and come up with two gouges that handle very differently than one another!

Somewhere around here, I have an ancient textbook on wood lathe turning......it was the first one I ever read, and much of the information in it has been the standard since before I was born. (1949) Although there were gouges, I don't believe there were any deep-flute bowl gouges in that book. Anyone have any idea when the deep flute bowl gouges first came into popular use????

Also.....Anyone know if it was David Ellsworth that invented the grind that bears his name? ......or, was he just the one that made it well known?

otis of cologne
 
Deep flutes

odie said:
Somewhere around here, I have an ancient textbook on wood lathe turning......it was the first one I ever read, and much of the information in it has been the standard since before I was born. (1949) Although there were gouges, I don't believe there were any deep-flute bowl gouges in that book. Anyone have any idea when the deep flute bowl gouges first came into popular use????
Click to expand...

Although, still a novice turner, I've been interested in turning for a long time. I went through my older books (before c. 1987), and there were some "deep-fluted" bowl gouges pictured, but all the gouges were forged, just more or less bent in cross-section.

When last I got a lathe, about 1990 I think, there were gouges machined from steel rods, but they were controversial. Turning went by the wayside as personal circumstances forced me to hold down two jobs for nearly a decade. As I got the occasional tool catalog in that period, the forged gouges disappeared.

Nowadays, the "continental" gouge seems to be having a small resurgence.

The short answer is Frank Pain's "The Practical Wood Turner" from 1956 illustrates a forged gouge with a deep u-shaped cross-section, but he considered it unneccesary. He also was distainful of skew chisels, recommending a 2-inch straight chisel.
 
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