Goin' Shopping!

[Dudley]

Well, I'm going shopping on Friday. Since I joined our local turning club, I get a discount at Woodcraft. I'm looking for suggestions as to whether or not I should substitute one thing for another. This stuff is not set in stone, but since I'm getting a nice bonus from work, I'm going hog wild (at least for me! 🙄 )

Here's my list:
1. Supernova2
2. The 1x8 right and left handed thread insert (that way I can use it on my outboard in the future)
3. The cole jaw set? (not sure about this one as of now)
4. The Woodcraft Pro Pen Mandrel
5. Pen Mill set
6. Bottle Stopper Kit
7. Some Cigar or Slimline pen kits with blanks and bushings
8. 8" 80 and 120 grinding wheels

Now I was thinking that I could limit myself to the supernova2 with insert and the pen making stuff... spend the rest (and a little more) on a Delta 14" bandsaw at Lowes.

What do you folks think? I like making bowls and am very new (Christmas 2005) to turning. Should I put some of this money into a bandsaw and wait for the other turning supplies? Lowe's has a Delta Bandsaw for $399. I plan on using the bandsaw to prepare blanks for the most part, but I may want to use it for something else later... should I consider another bandsaw at this price range, go less expensive like a harborfreight or craftsman, or put the band saw off and keep making REALLY rough blanks with my chainsaw?

Thanks in advance or any and all input!

 

[Ed Heuslein]

Howdy Dudley:

Good start. However, if you don't already have a sharpening system, like the Wolverine from Oneway, I'd suggest that rather than the bandsaw. Hold off on the bandsaw 'till you can get a 14" Jet or Delta with a riser block. Also, hold off on the Cole Jaws for now. They are useful but many other choices are often more successful.

Practice.

Ed

 

[Ron Warman]

Been shopping

I can give no advise on tools because I have many tools that I "had to have" and have not used for years. It is also hard to answer the Delta bandsaw question. I will say one thing for it. It has a bigger table than my Delta 14". The price is low because the thing is made in China now and the quality is not there but the same thing can be said for Jet and Grizzley. I would advise to look for an older Delta or get a electric chain saw for now.
Ron

 

[bbrussell]

I would not purchase the cole jaws, instead I would spend the money on parts to build a vacuum chuck. The 14'' band saw does not have the capacity you need unless you add riser bocks.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Brad - oh boy....how to spend someone else's money. Let's see....

You'll really like the Supernova - how did you live without a chuck for so long.

The bandsaw. Well I set mine all up, and even put in a riser kit. I used it a lot when I first started. Now the chainsaw does all the rough cuts. The bandsaw sits there listfully wanting to be used but it just ends up being used as a flat surface storage area. Heck I could have bought another workbench for much cheaper!

All that pen-making stuff will be fun to use. Friends and relatives love getting pens.

Cole jaw set. I used to use it. They are a bit of a pain to setup and use. But there is an occasional bowl or platter where I just absolutely need it. Mine are no longer perfectly flat. And the rubber bumpers get messed up and harden over time. It's one of those occasional use things.

Accessories - different price ranges:
- good dust collector
- powered respirator (trend airshield, etc)
- set of calipers
- sharpening system and accessories
- a couple of bowl gouges or spindle gouges of different sizes
- drill sander + accessories (great for sanding bowls)
- coring system (mcnaughton, etc)

...just some thoughts

 

[Dudley]

OK! Now we're getting somewhere!

I have a Wolverine sharpening system and a 6 inch grinder. I can pick up a Craftsman (I know it's not the "best") variable speed 8 inch grinder for $40 from a local place that sells reconditioned stuff. I have never had a problem with any of the tools I have bought there and if I have a problem with it--the guy will back it up.

I think I'm going to pass on the cole jaw set. There seem to be a lot of ways to finish the bottom of a bowl that do not require these jaws, and quite frankly, I would like to learn how to do them!

I have an electric chainsaw and a gas chain saw. I'm looking for something that I can cut better circles on... thus my idea of a bandsaw. I also would like to cut some dried wood for platters and bowls. I do have a radial arm saw and a table saw... but they are much to valuable of storage benches to be used for much cutting! 😛

I do have calipars listed on my wish list, but I have a small set from Harbor Freight that seem to do the job right now, I know they're not quality tools, so I'm thinking of these ... but I'm wondering if they can wait for a month or so.

I also have this sanding kit on my list, but I'm questioning the price. Is it really worth the 60 some dollars? Or is there a less expensive kit that does the same thing?

I'm trying to maximize my shopping spree without scaring the LOML. You folks have been a tremendous help to me and I really appriciate and value your suggestions.

I never thought about the dust collection system. Nor have I considered a different size bowl gouge. I do think I will "update" my turning tools (set of 8 carbon steel) that I got used with my lathe to a set of HSS. I have read a lot of people recommending the Harbor Freight set for newbies like myself so I can learn how to sharpen correctly on an inexpensive set of tools.

If I do decide on a bandsaw, I'll go with a riser block for sure. I keep telling my wife that someday I'll make her a bedroom suit, but I really don't think she has the intentions of waiting for one!!! 😛 That's kind of the reason I want a decent bandsaw (for future use) but is an inexpensive Delta or Jet any better quality than a Harbor Freight or Craftsman? (BTW Craftsman bandsaws are out of the question.... they do not have a riser block)

OH Decisions, Decisions, Decisions!!!!

Does a dust collection system work well on a lathe? I'm using a shp-vac now.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

The sanding kit can be useful. I bought my stuff separately. And I mostly use the 3" pad which is hook and loop. I bought the 3" disks mailorder. Sure makes sanding a lot easier. And 3" disks are good for most bowls.

Dust collectors are great. Yes they work fine on a lathe. Some guys setup dust hoods. I use a 10' flex tube which I move near the piece when sanding. I pulls most of the dust out of the air. Once you do sanding with a dust collector you are hooked! Not only do you breath easier, but most of the fine dust gets collected which keeps the shop cleaner.

Bandsaw - I have the 14" Harbor Freight with the riser. The riser is ordered separately. For a bandsaw of this size the motor is underpowered in my opinion. Since you already have 2 chainsaws maybe this can wait.

Calipers - you might consider just making some or getting by with your current ones. They aren't necessary but good ones are fun to use. Another thing I use all the time is a compass set. I got a small compass and a large compass from Harbor Freight. They get used a lot.

Sounds like you're having fun with planning. It's always fun to bring home new goodies!

 

[Dudley]

Compasses! Forgot about those! Have to check them out too!

We have a Harbor Freight store about 45 min away. Maybe I'll go there before woodcraft!

 

[MichaelMouse]

Get the pin jaws for the Nova. Cole jaws are much less useful. I've got the dual-thread adapter, and it works fine in both directions, though you'll have to hold it pretty straight to start the leads, compared to the single thread.

I'll swim upstream here - so what's new - and say that with a 14-16" stock, you're rarely talking about thicknesses you can't handle on a riser-less Delta 14. By the time you have a 2" flat on the outside and have removed the first half inch or so from the heart, a 6 1/4" cutting depth is about as much as you need. You have the option of tilting and nibbling for another inch as well, so you won't have to resort to the chainsaw for roughing until you're over 7" in depth. I much prefer the balance and precision possible with a bandsaw to that knobby surface you get with a chainsaw. Seems there's always a knob or two that I have to pare away, or I take too much off prior to mounting to avoid having to pare away.

I'd also make sure I had a high-quality rotating tail center.

 

[Ed Koenig]

Brad,
While your at Woodcraft, look at their 8" slow speed grinder. I recently purchased it while on sale for $70. It is quiet and very smooth. I was very surprised. The wheels run true (on mine anyway). I believe the regular price is $99. If your going to spend money on wheels for your six inch grinder, spend a little more and buy the slow speed grinder that comes with AO wheels.

Ed

 

[TomH]

HSS Tools

I believe that Woodcraft has their "in-house" brand of HSS tools on sale next month for $99. Though the bowl gouge is small, the price is right -- you might want to check them out.

Have fun shopping!

TH

 

[Steve Worcester]

I would go with the pen stuff, the bottle stopper set, etc. Unless you are going to finish the bottoms of bowls, don't get cole jaws yet. They come in handy, but vacuum setup is more useful.

Any chuck is better than no chuck. #2 jaws available with most chucks are going to be a great start for bowl and vessel work. From there chucks become a system for us to interchange jaws to do different tasks usually tailored to that individuals needs. Look at a chuck system that you wouldn't mind having multiples of, as they usually can be bought with interchangeable inserts so that you can use them on every lathe you will ever buy. Eventually, you may start buying extra chuck because you don't want to stop the CHI flow and change jaws.

Good grinder and wheels before any of the other stuff, Woodcrafts Pink wheels (Camel brand) are good at a low prices. They may need some balancing, but so will others. A grinding jig setup and wheel cleaner/truing is a great investment too.

I had the same bandsaw for my first one. It is pretty underpowered for what woodturners use their bandsaw for. It would work for trimming legs and spindles, but not real great for bowl blank trimming. Save up for a larger new or used one.

Unlike Jeff, I use my bandsaw and not my chainsaw much, as long as I can get it on the table, I can probably cut it. But that said, I am on my 4th bandsaw (in 10 years) and the MOAB (mother of all bandsaws) is the biggest I can get in my shop and on single phase power.

I use compass and calipers almost daily, but you can set those most anywhere. A good live center is a solid investment, since we trust our lives to them.

 

[mkart]

chucks

I would recommend the Oneway chuck over the supernova. I have only supernova chucks but am envious of friends when I use their Oneways. Maybe it's just me but the Oneway chucks feel better. I feel stuck to the Supernova since I have 8 sets of jaws for them. I am however ordering a 5 1/2" Vicmarc chuck with my new lathe.
Matt

 

[Mark Mandell]

I am however ordering a 5 1/2" Vicmarc chuck with my new lathe.
Matt

Which you are going to really enjoy over all others. Had a Oneway, sold it (and the extra jaw sets that I rarely used with my old lathe; chuck key was too fussy. Vic is still silky smooth after 3 years.

M

 

[Jeff Jilg]

I'll put in a vote for Oneway Stronghold. Had mine and used it for over 1,000 hours, maybe over 1,500 hours. Still works like a charm. I think they only send the good ones to Texas - that's why Mark's chuck key was fussy. 😱

 

[Mark Mandell]

Well.

[I had the Talon]
😀

 

[Dudley]

Great advice coming! Is the oneway a better chuck? I was looking at the utility of the two way thread adapter on the supernova2. Should I go with the oneway talon instead? My lathe has a 12" swing... stronghold sems like overkill.

As far as the bandsaw goes, HF has the 14" on sale for $254. I have a 10% discount on top of that. Worth it for the money?

The pinical set for $99 huh, I'll check that out!

Slow speed grinder... check that out too.

Is the pinnicle set much better than the HF set? Just curious, both HSS, both made in another country.

 

[dkulze]

Pinnacle set is MUCH better than the HF set. When you're looking at sets, you want a 3/8 or larger bowl gouge, a skew, a 3/8 spindle gouge, etc. Don't worry about scrapers and don't bother with smaller bowl gouges. Way too much flex to use on any but small work. Once you have this, you can use all your old carbon steel stuff as scrapers.

I have a Supernova II and love it. I like the allen key crank much better than the toothed ones used by Oneway or Vicmark. My only gripe with it is the danged leftie-tighty thing. Woulda thought they would have changed that by now. Oh, and tests have shown equivalent compression between it and the others.

Jeff, I don't know why you use your saw as a table. I have an old (un)reliant with a riser and a cobbled on 2hp motor. I use it for almost all of my roughing of stock and love it dearly. Total cost used, $100. One thing that help hugely is a big old plywood extension table, though. Otherwise, anything big is dangerous to hold while cutting.

If you're going to be using the bandsaw for anything other than rough resawing and blank cutting, you want to wait and spend decent money on a decent saw. The HF with a riser, however, will chew through 10" green wood if you take your time. If you can find someone upgrading and get their used one, you're even better off.

Don't bother with the cole jaws at this point. They are such a cool item but mine get used about once a year. Admittedly, they're awfully useful for that one time but......

After several years, I almost never use my calipers, and a piece of string is as good as a compass.

Overstock.com sells an 55degree angle drill that is the balls for power sanding. Same design as the Soiux but for $49.99 and works fine. As to $60 for a sanding kit, just get the 2 & 3 inch velcro mounts and order sheets of Rynogrip from Industrial Abrasives. 3'x3' sheet for about $11 and will make over 100 squares for a 3" disc (don't bother cutting them round. no reason).

Don't forget the face shield and the big rubber mallet.

Dietrich

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Dietrich - I use the bandsaw as a table for 2 reasons:

1. I currently have a moratium on bringing in new wood since I have over 400 roughouts that need to get finish cuts and finished
2. I'm actually better at cutting the roughouts with a chainsaw than with the bandsaw. Especially true for wet wood.

But you have given me an idea. I have some spare plywood, and that bandsaw may end up becoming a bigger table.

Brad - at equivalent pricepoints, the two chucks will probably give about the same performance. You may want to play around with them at the store and see what you like best.

 

[Ron Warman]

Oneway Stronghold chuck

I have two Stronghold chucks and one Vicmarc 120 chuck. The Strongholds are getting pretty dusty now because the Vicmarc is a much better chuck in every way. Whoever says the Vicmarc tightens the wrong way is wrong. It is the Stronghold that has the strange key, the Vicmarc has an allen key which I like better. If you lost your Oneway key in the sawdust do you think your local hardware store has another?

Ron

 

[Steve Worcester]

The Strongholds are getting pretty dusty now because the Vicmarc is a much better chuck in every way.

I'll buy em, or trade em for the escoulan I never use. I have 4 strongholds now and love them. Yes they get dusty and need to get cleaned once in a while, but that's maintenance.

 

[Griesbach]

Brad,
I've got three supernova's for my old lathe, love them, and keeping them for my wife to use. Lots of jaw selection. Got a new PM3520B a couple of weeks ago and bought three supernova 2's for it (different spindle size). [sidebar...actually one complete chuck and two companion chucks in both cases.] Got the latest from Woodworkers Specialties www.woodworkerspecialties.com and they treated me really well. Beat another unnamed supplier by over $200.00.

Just trying to help you get your dough to reach as far as it can. You've gotten a lot of good advice for your shopping spree, now you have to decide for yourself. Have fun!!!

 

[Dudley]

Wow

I can't believe the responses to my list! You folks are great! I got a lot of info when I bought the lathe and now when I'm buying acc.

I told my wife today that I decided to buy the bandsaw at HF. I know it's not a Delta or Jet and it may be a little under powered, but I have the mony for it now and know that if I wait it won't be there (vacation, insurance, taxes, something). She is very supportave of my woodturning and is actually coming up with ideas for projects! I have to say I'm very lucky to have a wife and best friend all in one.

NOW: Enough with the mushy stuff. Here's what I think I've decided on:

1. A chuck--I'm gonna play with both the oneway and the supernova and go by feel and which one I seem to like better
2. All the pen stuff and bottle stopper stuff on the first list--mandrel, a few blanks, and a few kits and bushings. I have been given the names of a few websites tha offer better prices and will order stuff from them.
3. The HF Bandsaw-- see above notation (plus I don't want to put out big money to have a new table if it turns out I don't use it very often.)
4. A slow speed 8" grinder with the AO wheels--probably the Woodcraft one
5. a set of HSS tools... probably the Woodcraft Brand when they go on sale. I have a 3/8 Pinnacle Bowl gouge now, and I'm just learning... so I'm gonna wait for the good tools (I do like those Crown PM's--but that's for another list)
6. A sanding disk set of some sort

That should do it for now... it's a lot of money for me to put out at one time, but I've been blessed with it at this time so I'm gonna spend some of it!

Thanks for all of the advice. It really helped me make these decisions. I'll post a list of the stuff I actually buy--cause it could all change!

 

[Jeff Jilg]

We're having fun too Brad because it's your money we're spending!
Get the HF riser block for the bandsaw. It's special order (even though it's really not that special). Took 6 months to get mine. I think they had to mine the ore, refine it, then cast the steel - that's why it took so long. Maybe it is special!

Chucks - the Oneway chuck jaws close (smaller) as you turn the chuck key clockwise (righty tighty, lefty loosey). Apparently the Vicmarc jaws close as you turn the chuck key counter-clockwise. Not saying which one is better, that's just the way they work.

Ron - it would be pretty tough to lose the Oneway chuck key in a pile of shavings - it's huge! That would not be a good reason to avoid the Oneway.

 

[Randy Rice]

Vicmarc Chuck

Jeff,

My big Vicmarc chuck's jaws close when the key is turned in a clockwise direction. My Grizzly knock-off of the small Vicmarc chuck has jaws that close when turned in a clockwise direction. BTW, they both open when turned the opposite way (sorry, I couldn't resist the snide comment). 😀

Reasons I like the Vicmarc chuck:
1. The hex key.
2. The back is enclosed.
3. Two, that's two, built-in indexers.
4. I've already spent my money on one (plus the knock-off).

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Thanks for the update Randy. I must have mis-read Ron's post.

I am curious about this inclination towards hex keys. Why do you like the hex key (vicmarc) over the splined key (oneway)? The oneway key that I use seems to have a pretty good bite. It does not slip.

 

[Vernon Oberle]

Subject of chucks

I'll throw my 2 cents in on the chuck issue. The supernova2 is the one that tightens backwards. I have the supernova2, talon, and vicmarc 120. For smaller things the vicmarc is tooooo big ( would also like to have the 100), I used the supernova2 a lot when I had a DVR but didn't really like it as much as the talon. IMHO the talon is one of the most useful and easy to use small chucks. Someday I might look at the vicmarc 100 but I sure hate to buy another set of jaws.

Vernon

 

[Gary]

Took 6 months to get mine. I think they had to mine the ore, refine it, then cast the steel - that's why it took so long. Maybe it is special!

Nah, just took the sampan that long to get here from the country of origin

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

Late to the party

Dudley
I am surprized no one has offered you a ride to the store yet.

Chucks - I have the Oneway Stronghold, if it gets fussy I just blow it out. I have 4 sets of jaws, and I hate changing jaws so my next chuck is another Stronghold. The chuck after that will be the little Vicmarc that thing is a smooth oerating precision little machine.

Tools - The Pinnacle 6 piece beginers set from Woodcraft is nice tools with bad handles. The handles are too light and just don't feel right, especially when compared to the Sorbey or Henry Tayor tools. Look at Artisan line form Crafts Supply.

The compass thread died pretty quick. Make a big compass! At $20 to $50 it is worth it. My Dad made me a big compass, 16" long legs, from scraps and it will be a keepsake. He spent about 60 cents for a brass bolt and wing nut for the pivot and lock and it works great.

I make 5 times the bottle stoppers as I do pens. People are happy with either for gifts but they will buy stoppers from me. An excellent way to encourage your wifes enjoyment of the hobby to is make all of the Christmas presents fr next year. I made pens in 2004 for her staff and stoppers in 2005 for her 42 teachers/staff at the school. They loved them, Nita didn't have to shop, and we avoided spending probably $800 on the presents. That is a family victory.

If your wife really loves you she will wait on the dust collector and keep sweeping up after you come in the house and brush off in front of the fridge. One pointer; never wash any clothes you wore in the shop with her 'delicates'. One time a wood chip somehow found its way under the elastic of Nita's bra. It wore a whole in her before she could get home and rid herself of the culprit. I suffered through a day of womens department shopping in penance for that sin.

Enjoy your windfall!
Frank

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Gary - I would be impressed if they used a sampan, at 6 months they probably carried the ore by the shovel !

Wood chips - totally agree with Frank. Woodchips in the house will get you in hot water big time. I got one stuck in the carpet last week and you can believe that I will not forget that! Isn't that why we make the significant others nice gifts like wood bowls, platters, etc. - to stay out of hot water. Frank - it sounds like those bottle stoppers have been quite a hit.