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Gluing help

Glenn, my dealings with Gorilla glue has not been fun. seems it wants to foam and have a mind of its own, and the foam is not easy to clean up. I don't know how instant the flexible ca is but I like a little bit of working time for those types of glue ups. I think grinding the end for a little "tooth" is a good idea and then maybe a little epoxy. Basic yes, but sometimes basic is good, plus, it's easy to clean any squeeze out...
 
Clifton C said:
Glenn, my dealings with Gorilla glue has not been fun. seems it wants to foam and have a mind of its own, and the foam is not easy to clean up. I don't know how instant the flexible ca is but I like a little bit of working time for those types of glue ups. I think grinding the end for a little "tooth" is a good idea and then maybe a little epoxy. Basic yes, but sometimes basic is good, plus, it's easy to clean any squeeze out...
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How do you clean the squeeze out of two part epoxy. I had this happen and could not get rid of it.
 
Glenn,
When I have used two part epoxy on furniture I carefully tape around joint with 3M blue masking tape. I will do my glue up and wait till the glue starts to thicken and them remove the tape carefully. Then a q-tip and a little denatured alcohol around the joint if there is anymore squeeze out on the joint. Let dry and then some light sanding.
 
Eclectic E6000 adhesive is a high performance adhesive that will glue many different materials together. This product stays flexible and over time will not become brittle like many adhesives do. This has been my go to adhesive for 40 years when gluing different types of materials together.
 
Giving something "tooth" is just another way or saying what you said about notching the end. Sometimes I use 80 grit and just rough it up, sometimes a dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut a notch or two. Alcohol cuts epoxy and usually doesn't bother an oil finish or lacquer but don't use on shellac or something with a friction type finish. And then, any that squeezes out isn't being used, so, apply with a toothpick so you have no squeeze out or just a bare minimum. if using alcohol, clean while wet.
 
Thank you so much. I see my mistake. I have been doing glue ups with little or no finish on. Get squeeze out, wood staining etc. I always try and go to the point where I have maximum glue and no squeeze out. The E 6000 thanks will see if can get in Canada. Otherwise I see I can order it from woodcraft 50 small tubes for 66 dollars. Won’t dry out like a big tube.
 
One of my idols in knife making is Mr. Ken Coats--no telling how many slip joint knives he has made, and he has literally had no handle failures--all his handles were adhered with CA glue--they are also mechanically attached (pins) but he is a big proponent of CA in wood gluing applications-wood to metal for these knives-I have had good luck with it when using it in wood gluing applications--I have made 40 or 50 SAYA's and used CA to glue them all--including maple, beech, mahogany, walnut, cocobolo, and on and on--worked well on all these woods-some oily woods, some drier woods-so you can say I am a CA fan--I look for odorless CA when I can.....
 
Don C Davis said:
One of my idols in knife making is Mr. Ken Coats--no telling how many slip joint knives he has made, and he has literally had no handle failures--all his handles were adhered with CA glue--they are also mechanically attached (pins) but he is a big proponent of CA in wood gluing applications-wood to metal for these knives-I have had good luck with it when using it in wood gluing applications--I have made 40 or 50 SAYA's and used CA to glue them all--including maple, beech, mahogany, walnut, cocobolo, and on and on--worked well on all these woods-some oily woods, some drier woods-so you can say I am a CA fan--I look for odorless CA when I can.....
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I just read that ca glue has failures after 10 years. Your information is good to know.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Thank you so much. I see my mistake. I have been doing glue ups with little or no finish on. Get squeeze out, wood staining etc. I always try and go to the point where I have maximum glue and no squeeze out. The E 6000 thanks will see if can get in Canada. Otherwise I see I can order it from woodcraft 50 small tubes for 66 dollars. Won’t dry out like a big tube.
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Glenn,

E6000 series adhesive is also sold under several different names in the retail market, Shoe Goo is one of the brands they market under. This product is used to glue the sole of the shoe when it comes apart, so you can imagine how much abuse the adhesive would endure while being used for this purpose. If you look on the package it will list the manufacturer that makes the adhesive on the back of the package.
 
I've been using epoxy to glue the handles on my mirrors for ages. I have also glued in a lot of metal dowels using epoxy. scratch, scribe, sand or notch the metal to give the epoxy something to grab on to. I prefer notches in metal because they sort of act like miniature dowels to hold the metal in place. wood moves, metal doesn't so the glue joint can fail over the years. If you have notches the epoxy dowel keeps the metal in place. You can easily wipe off any excess with a rag and alcohol. I prefer 2 methods for dealing with the glue squeeze out. One is to drill a small hole in the end of the metal. This gives excess a glue a place to go and reduces squeeze out. The other only works if you don't mind it showing. I drill an air hole through the side or end of the piece with a 1/16" drill. As you push the rod in the excess epoxy will squirt out the drilled hole. You can then wipe it off the epoxy will fill and seal the hole. works fantastic but of course you do see the hole. Gorilla, or better, Polyeurethane glue sucks. I haven't found anything I can't do equally or better with yellow glue or epoxy and either one can easily be cleaned up. If you get Gorilla glue on your hands good luck, it will only wear off. It also won't fill any voids the way epoxy will.
E 6000 is good for some applications but it's thick and kind of hard to use for many applications. I much prefer epoxy most of the time.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
I just read that ca glue has failures after 10 years. Your information is good to know.
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Glenn that is not true, I have a bowl here that is used every day since 2001, it has CA glued splits, none of these fail, nor do other ones where I have used the CA on, like in the knots in bowls, and yes I have heard these claims, just like bad luck if you see a black cat, also called BS.

Yes wood does move when drying from wet to dry, however most woods are stable and will move very little after they are dry and kept in dry normal human environments, anyway that has been my experience over the length of time that I have used CA

And I have used it on all the hundreds of the ornamental birdhouses I have made, some we and my immediate family have and not a single one did come apart.
 
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You both are right

Glenn Lefley said:
I just read that ca glue has failures after 10 years. Your information is good to know.
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I have used CA for over 18 years to hold wet wood on dry glueblocks because It is a weak joint.
I use a glue block screwed to a faceplate for turning natural edge bowls when I do not want to give wood for a chuck tenon. Holds great. However CA is one of the few glues weaker than wood. Removal of the glueblock is accomplished by splitting the joint with a flat chisel. The glue fractures and you have the bowl free of the glue block in seconds. Also carefully turning the CA off the glue block allows reuse of the block for 50-100 bowls before I reveal a screw, also if I leave the bowl on the glueblock for a couple of hours the glue fails when the bowl moves.

Leo Van Der Loo said:
have a bowl here that is used every day since 2001, it has CA glued splits, none of these fail, nor do other ones where I have used the CA on, like in the knots in bowls, and yes I have heard these claims,
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I have used CA to glue in hollowing tips for about 25 years. I have never had a hollowing tip get loose in use. They take a lot of punishment. Removal is done by heating the tool which releases the glue.

Someone will probably be able to explain that CA is really good at keeping things together so they don’t pull apart.
It is also easily fractured

I don’t use it to join. two pieces that I want to stay together.
While a tight joint of the same wood and same grain direction a CA joint will probably hold forever, I use tightbond or epoxy because I know hiw easy it is to fracture the glue in a butt joint.
 
Stan Semeniuk said:
Glenn,
When I have used two part epoxy on furniture I carefully tape around joint with 3M blue masking tape. I will do my glue up and wait till the glue starts to thicken and them remove the tape carefully. Then a q-tip and a little denatured alcohol around the joint if there is anymore squeeze out on the joint. Let dry and then some light sanding.
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What Stan suggested is what I was going to suggest. Use Scotch Blue Platinum painters masking tape which is a new product that has some stretch or Scotch Blue 2080EL painters tape (which is what I have been using) on the bowl and then use a drill to punch through the tape where the holes are located. I definitely agree that epoxy is the glue that I would use for this job, but the flexible glue sounds like a very good choice also. Rough up the metal so that the glue will have a better hold. You don't need much glue ... squeeze out is messy. I have used acetone for clean up.
 
You can buy E6000 at Canadian Tire, but I would not use that. I bought some once for I don't remember what but was a big disappointment. I buy West 5 minute epoxy in 2 x 250 ml containers and it is good for years and has never let me done. I rough up metal with a very light touch on the edge of my coarse grinding wheel. As others have said finish or at least seal with a light wipe of shellac before gluing and wipe any squeezeout immediately. Did it just the other day making an adapter with a 3/4 10 nut in some cherry for my Oneway live center.
 
Mike Brazeau said:
You can buy E6000 at Canadian Tire, but I would not use that. I bought some once for I don't remember what but was a big disappointment. I buy West 5 minute epoxy in 2 x 250 ml containers and it is good for years and has never let me done. I rough up metal with a very light touch on the edge of my coarse grinding wheel. As others have said finish or at least seal with a light wipe of shellac before gluing and wipe any squeezeout immediately. Did it just the other day making an adapter with a 3/4 10 nut in some cherry for my Oneway live center.
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Can I get west 5 min at Canadian tire also?
 
Lee Valley carry another brand now, Quickcure and is quite expensive. I buy the West System in small bottles locally at Exotic Woods and it lasts me years. I have used the dual syringe packs in the past and they work just as well for what you want to do. Canadian Tire or any Hardware/Building supply store should have it. One additional suggestion is to wet the surfaces with a bit of epoxy before joining to know you have a good bond. Off topic but when crack filling with mixtures of epoxy and sanding dust or rock dust etc. this is a good practice.
 
Something not mentioned about CA and the reason it is used to connect sacrificial blocks, it has very low shear strength , but vertical strength is very high. So a blow sideways will easily break the bond but pulling straight against the joint and the wood will fail first.
 
Mike Brazeau said:
Lee Valley carry another brand now, Quickcure and is quite expensive. I buy the West System in small bottles locally at Exotic Woods and it lasts me years. I have used the dual syringe packs in the past and they work just as well for what you want to do. Canadian Tire or any Hardware/Building supply store should have it. One additional suggestion is to wet the surfaces with a bit of epoxy before joining to know you have a good bond. Off topic but when crack filling with mixtures of epoxy and sanding dust or rock dust etc. this is a good practice.
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Lee Valley does carry a bunch of different Epoxy products, The west system included, and they all are expensive IMO, as I said before I don’t see the need for the use of these expensive products in this application.

epoxy.jpg
 
I'm a big fan of West System epoxy. I have several different hardeners and thickeners. I can mix up just about anything I need. I have use a lot of Quick Cure over the years and also like System 3 epoxy. For my hand mirrors I use Loctite 5 minute epoxy in the syringe tubes. I never need more than just a few drops to glue in a mirror handle so it seems wasteful to use anything else.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
flexible ca or grinding notch in both ends a gorilla glue.
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the original Gorilla glue is a foaming glue with almost no structural integrity. It was developed for the Teak furniture industry. It didn't serve well but the marketing people figured a catchy ad campaign might let them recoup their costs and The result is this horrible utterly worthless stuff.
CA glue might serve better. So too epoxy
What you didn't say ( aside from wanting a permanent fix) was anything about the stress this connection will undergo.
 
Here's a good read about polyurethane glue: The Truth About Polyurethane Glue

My experience with polyurethane glue is rather limited, but my first encounter was over thirty years ago when I built an outdoor porch glider for my parents fiftieth anniversary. On some of the joints I used resorcinol-formaldehyde glue and on other joints I used polyurethane glue which was a fairly new product in the US at that time although it had been used in Europe for several decades. The white oak that I was using had been air dried and apparently still had enough moisture to create a significant amount of foaming. I had been forewarned, but I was still surprised. The parts that were glued included the fixed base and the frame for the swing. That was about 33 years ago. I recently started restoring it by disassembling all the parts that were screwed together and sanding off all of the old varnish. All of the glued joints, most of which were glued with polyurethane are still rock solid. These are primarily half lap joints. The glider was exposed to the sun for about half of each day and sometimes blowing rain as well as heavy dew for much of the year. This was before Titebond III and I think also before Titebond II. One of my lessons learned was that there wasn't anything that could remove the glue from myh hands other than time.
 
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