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for vacuum chuck users, what dia.?

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Mar 17, 2013
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Thinking about making a new toy, or conning my friend with a machine shop into making it anyway! For those that use vacuum chucks, what is the most common diameter chuck that you use and at a guess what percentage of the time to you use that one size?

Thanks for your assistance!

Hu
 
Hu, there is no single answer to your question. It all depends upon the size of the turning and how large the vacuum chuckable area of the turning is. I use the largest the turning will allow.

My chucks are all homemade from hard maple (my smallest at ~3"), plexi, PVC pipe fittings, or some combination of the last two. If you can locate a company that manufactures items from appropriate materials, you can often get more scraps to use than you need. That's how I got the 1" and 2" thick plexiglass.
 
Ditto what Owen said. I have about 6 chucks because they are so easy to make. 90% of the time I use one that is about 5" across.
 
exactly what I need to know

Owen, John,

Your answers are exactly what I need to know. Hoping to get a larger sample size as others see the thread. One thing I need to know is if a chuck smaller than 4.5 to 5 inches is needed often. I am thinking about what I can make with available material, cut offs or "drops" from other components.

Thank you both for your assistance!

Hu
 
Hu
I make my own chucks too. Probably the ugliest vacuum chucks on earth

I just face glue construction grade 2x10 or 2x 8
Two or three deep. Turn them. They leak like a sieve through the end grain.
Duct tape makes them leak proof.
I reshape them as needed.
I consider them throw aways but I end up using them for years.
I use the adhesive "fun foam" on the contact edge.

I hold a lot of spheres in the chucks so I'm adjusting for diameter. The openings get turned larger and larger until I replace them with a small one.

I also have quite a few made using PVC pipe as bowl and some with sona tubes ( cardboard round concrete forms)
The sona tubes are great for holding something that has warped because the cardboard can flex ; terrible for turning in that they give and have a spongy feel when turning.
Another woodturning trade off.

I use some of the gaskets from rubber chucky on the PVC. These hold up really well. The fun foam only lasts 3-4 pieces on the PVC.

Have fun!
Al
 
Hu,

Once you get smaller than 4", vacuum chucks loose a lot of their utility. At 4" diameter you got a shade more that 12 square inches of surface. With a vacuum source able to create maintain 2/3 bar (about 20" Hg. accounting for leakage) you've only got 120lbs. of total atmospheric pressure pushing on your workpiece with that 4" chuck. That may be fine sanding and very light cuts with sharp tools, but much more in the "friction dept." and you'll be following the bouncing bowl. Go smaller and the benefit drops fast: 3"=70lbs, 2"=30lbs. total pressure.

For smaller turnings I find a jamb chuck with or without hot-melt glue is a much better fixing.

When I turn bowls (now rarely) I use a large as vacuum chuck as possible and then adjust the vacuum pressure with a relief valve. I use a 6 CFM Robinair vacuum pump that, with a good seal on the wood, will pull 26-29" of Hg. if the wood's not too thin. I've turned 18-20" platters on an 8" chuck but only needed 8-10" Hg. to hold them to finish turn the base.

Remember, vacuum chucking was invented to allow the turner to finish the foot of a turning without the tail-stock in the way. It's not a substitute for faceplate/scroll chuck/glue-block mountings for heavy turning.
 
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Like Mark said. I did use a vacuum chuck that is 3" for some small hand mirrors. You had to turn lightly and keep the pressure on the bevel or it could pop loose on you. I do have a 3 1/2" chuck that is 6" deep for special bowls but on those I'm only reverse turning the foot so it holds it pretty well.
I have an 8" that pulls the wood so hard it will actually warp the wood if it's thin. I have to back the vacuum off on that one.
 
Forgot to mention I have been using some 1.5 " opening chucks made using a reducing coupling on the PVC chuck.
With a 2" opening I can use a rubber chucky gasket to make a 1.5" opening.

I have made a few prototype ornaments using chatter work on a disk or a triangle turned with three centers.
These are a little bit like Bonnie Klein tops.
A long finial 5-7" is turned holding the ornament in a chuck. The finial goes into the vacuum chuck and the top of the ornament can be turned.

Also works nicely for medallions which can be mounted off center too.

Need a light touch because only a small part of the earth is pushing on the small chuck.

Al
 
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I use PVC pipe couplings. The actual sizes that I use the most are 4" and 5" -- the pipe size for those two dimensions are 3 and 4 inches respectively. The back is two or three layers of MDF sealed with CA. An aluminum faceplate is used to connect to the spindle. Some turners use large nuts bedded with epoxy in the MDF.
 
Out of town like everything . . .

I'm a ways from it like everything else these days but I have access to some nice solid plastic drops, 3", 5" and 6" rough OD cylinder shaped drops if I remember correctly, also some one inch thick plastic plate. The round stuff is a little oversize to clean up at the call out sizes, the one inch plate has already been precision cut to one inch. Along with the plastic I'm thinking about babbett bearings and O-rings to keep oil where I want it and vacuum where I want it. I will use the job shop metal equipment to shape the plastic. A wood lathe would do most of it, all of it really, but accuracy, ease, and speed make the metal lathes and mills more attractive for tooling builds.

I am aware of the rapidly diminishing returns when a circle gets smaller and the fact that the best pressure we can get is theoretically somewhere around a negative 14.6 or 14.8 PSI normalized for a lot of things only scientists and engineers care about. I'm more interested in few connections, a decent vacuum to begin with and a vacuum reservoir and bleed valve to stabilize things. Figure that I can maybe get 12PSI raw pressure and hope to keep pretty much all of it except what leaks through the bowl or vessel and what leaks at the connecting joint between the bowl or vessel and chuck.

Am planning to use a vacuum chuck only to clean up the foot and there is another place it seems the bigger the chuck the happier I will be with the direction of force going into the vacuum chuck. As long as the foot I am cutting on is smaller than the chuck face I should get a little mechanical help too by applying cutting pressure directly towards the headstock as much as possible.

I have a couple of jam chucks and a lollipop, plan to make more lollipops and jam chucks but I would like to be able to move the tailstock out of the way. I just made a simple board today that will require me to standardize the size of the rim after I am well into the roughing but I can put a bunch of different sized rims on that plate. Actually have a beautimus piece of cherry drying between that plate and tailstock tonight. It is very thin so it will either be round and mostly dry by tomorrow or broken. Got to get some Baltic birch plywood or something similar but there are times when a donut chuck could come in very handy. Not quite as bad as the metal cutting equipment but I can see a lot of time and some dollars spent on jigs and fixtures. Forgot about some other jam chucks, I went to the dollar store and scored rubber balls of various sizes. Stick a bowl that still has a tenon or recess on it in the chuck, the rubber ball and the bowl I'm working on and it works pretty good.

An aside from someone that hasn't worked with fresh cut wood much, the cherry was a tree just a few months ago. I'm amazed at the amount of color that is all through the wood already. Kinda amazed at some punky areas too but can't have everything.

I'm not amazed at the amount of knowledge and assistance so freely given on this forum anymore but I do remain deeply grateful. You guys and gals are the best, in more ways than one! Thanks to each of you, as always I read and reread every post and thread when I start these things.

Hu
 
Below are photos of my vacuum chucks. They are 3", 5", 7", and 9". I didn't plan the size steps that way on purpose, just kinda worked out that way. You can see they're not pretty and likely never were.

The attachment is with Don Pencil aluminum faceplates for the plexi versions and a direct thread for the maple. I used a Beall tap matching my spindle... I'll likely attempt to thread my future plexi chucks since it works so well with the maple. One less interface to leak or purchase requirement.

{Yes, the rubber needs replacing on every one of them!}
 

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One comment about making everything on metalworking tools:
You will at least want to true the contact surface between chuck and wood to your wood lathe's mechanicals. Remember to do this before you apply the seal!😀
 
Thank You!

One comment about making everything on metalworking tools:
You will at least want to true the contact surface between chuck and wood to your wood lathe's mechanicals. Remember to do this before you apply the seal!😀

Thanks, that is a good reminder! The design I am considering with babbett bearings and such is where I wanted to hold tight tolerances and crank on dials. Much easier to get true zero taper on the metal lathe than with my wood turning skills, a term I use rather loosely! 😀

Hu
 
I'm a ways from it like everything else these days but I have access to some nice solid plastic drops, 3", 5" and 6" rough OD cylinder shaped drops if I remember correctly, also some one inch thick plastic plate. The round stuff is a little oversize to clean up at the call out sizes, the one inch plate has already been precision cut to one inch. Along with the plastic I'm thinking about babbett bearings and O-rings to keep oil where I want it and vacuum where I want it. I will use the job shop metal equipment to shape the plastic. A wood lathe would do most of it, all of it really, but accuracy, ease, and speed make the metal lathes and mills more attractive for tooling builds.

You didn't say it, but I am guessing that you jumped from describing your idea for a vacuum chuck design to your idea for a rotary coupler design.

I'll volunteer my opinion about using a Babbitt bearing in the rotary coupler. I think that you will have better success with a rotary coupler that uses ball bearings. I am not sure how you would incorporate O-rings into a Babbitt bearing and besides you also need to consider the effect of the vacuum on the Babbitt metal which I think would have a greater tendency to erode away under vacuum.

Here are some of my minimum design rules for a rotary vacuum coupler -- at least two bearing assemblies along with shaft seals and O-ring seals for the perimeter. I have seen quite a few different design for rotary couplers for woodturning vacuum chucking systems and most of them do not measure up to these design guidelines -- they either forget about the shaft seals or they forget that two ball bearing assemblies is the minimum.

.... the best pressure we can get is theoretically somewhere around a negative 14.6 or 14.8 PSI normalized for a lot of things only scientists and engineers care about. I'm more interested in few connections, a decent vacuum to begin with and a vacuum reservoir and bleed valve to stabilize things. Figure that I can maybe get 12PSI raw pressure and hope to keep pretty much all of it except what leaks through the bowl or vessel and what leaks at the connecting joint between the bowl or vessel and chuck.

Theory? This isn't some mystical prediction of the unobtainable, such as the quest for seeing how close we can get to absolute zero temperature where matter disappears. We're talking about the weight of the atmosphere. We can feel it and measure it ... and with atmospheric pollution, we can see it too. 😀

For practical applications we deal with gauge pressure as opposed to absolute (WRT a vacuum). Gauge pressure is referenced to local ambient pressure which is in constant state of changing with the weather (or to be more precise, it is this changing that causes weather).

.... I should get a little mechanical help too by applying cutting pressure directly towards the headstock as much as possible.

I think that you have really confused yourself here and talked yourself into a bad idea because it appears to not be a bad idea if taking a quick casual assessment of what is going on. Applying a force towrds the headstock is the force that you feel yourself exerting on the tool, but that isn't the end of the story. As the wood is rotating around, the force it "feels" from the cutter is vertical from the toolrest. The net resulting force is the vector sum of the components. So, save yourself from bad newbie cutting technique and instead make light slicing cuts. Your bowl will thank you and so will your vacuum chuck.

An aside from someone that hasn't worked with fresh cut wood much, the cherry was a tree just a few months ago. I'm amazed at the amount of color that is all through the wood already. Kinda amazed at some punky areas too but can't have everything.

One of the wonderful perks of being a woodturner is that you get to see hidden beauty that nobody else gets to see. The color and chatoyance of fresh cut green wood changes very rapidly as moisture evaporates.

I'm not amazed at the amount of knowledge and assistance so freely given on this forum anymore but I do remain deeply grateful. You guys and gals are the best, in more ways than one! Thanks to each of you, as always I read and reread every post and thread when I start these things.

...... You will at least want to true the contact surface between chuck and wood to your wood lathe's mechanicals. Remember to do this before you apply the seal!😀

That would only apply if your lathe does not have an alignment registration shoulder on the spindle. Most lathes do and in that case a chuck that runs true on one will run true on all lathes that provide an alignment reference.
 
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