fluorscent lite fixture question

[Gretch Flo]

As most of you know I am electrically challenged.
Above my lathe I have 2 fluroscent lights. I got the fixture from K mart when it went out of business probably 15 years ago-Nice boxed in sturdy fixture.. I have 2 other "cheap" fixtures in the shop.
Yesterday the lights were "flickering" and 1/3 power. I changed the lights this am and they came on great-til I turned on the remote switch for the dust collector. New ones flickering. Turned off DC and still flickering. "rescrews the bulbs -still flickeriing.
I have heard about ballasts but don't know what they are or Where located.
Should i fuss or just get the elcheapo's and be done with it???? Gretch

 

[Bill Weaver]

Are you in an area that is getting a lot of moisture at this time? If so that is causing your light to act up, the starters are collecting moisture. yes the ballast could be going bad depending on the age of light. To access the ballast remove bulbs remove screws holding panel once that is done you will be able to remove panel and see ballast.
Note: newer style lights doesn't have starters, so you may not have them to worry about.🙂

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Flourescent Lights

As most of you know I am electrically challenged.
Above my lathe I have 2 fluroscent lights. I got the fixture from K mart when it went out of business probably 15 years ago-Nice boxed in sturdy fixture.. I have 2 other "cheap" fixtures in the shop.
Yesterday the lights were "flickering" and 1/3 power. I changed the lights this am and they came on great-til I turned on the remote switch for the dust collector. New ones flickering. Turned off DC and still flickering. "rescrews the bulbs -still flickeriing.
I have heard about ballasts but don't know what they are or Where located.
Should i fuss or just get the elcheapo's and be done with it???? Gretch

Gretch, I'm guessing it is a ballast problem. I just had that issue with a kitchen light and discovered some interesting facts. First, a new ballast would cost about 3/4 as much as a new fixture and would invove more difficult wiring changes than changing the fixture. Second, I was told that present tubes are being phased out and being replaced by a new "energy efficient" tube that requires a new fixture. I opted to replace my old fixture with one of the new ones. I am pleased with the result; the light is brighter for the same wattage and the light comes almost instantly. Note, this was an indoor light; I do not know whether the same issues apply to cold starting lights for an unheated shop.

 

[Mike Peace]

I just ordered a new ballast to change from the older t12 to the newer t8 lights. This is what I found for a 2 light fixture. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H4HNQ44?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 A different one is needed for a four light fixture. The tombstones, the end pieces that hold the lamps, are the same for both and do not need changing. Lots of YouTube videos showing how to change them out if the instructions with the ballast are unclear.

 

[stu senator]

If you replace the fixture the stores are now pushing some LED strips that appear the same as a florescent fixture. In a shop I don't know if the hours of operation will warrant the extra cost.

Whatever you buy don't match the watts in the replacement but the Lumens, a measure of brightness. Look it up on line. Some LED fixtures have much lower output then the item being replaced. I still have some 100 watt incandescent bulbs for lamps as the newer lights will only cost me more in eye doctor bills for my older eyes then I save in power.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

If you replace the fixture the stores are now pushing some LED strips that appear the same as a florescent fixture. In a shop I don't know if the hours of operation will warrant the extra cost.

Whatever you buy don't match the watts in the replacement but the Lumens, a measure of brightness. Look it up on line. Some LED fixtures have much lower output then the item being replaced. I still have some 100 watt incandescent bulbs for lamps as the newer lights will only cost me more in eye doctor bills for my older eyes then I save in power.

Our office switched to the LED and they're great. Color corrected for daylight and nice warm light. Zero flicker, instant on, no heat.

I put a $65 LED light in a closet at the house (from Lowe's). It looks like a single tube fluorescent, sort of and puts out a surprising amount of light. The light is so good, in fact, I'm planning on doing that in the shop too. One at a time, but you never have to change them again (especially in a shop).

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

I have seen positive comments from lots of folks on the LED fixtures from Costco and SAMs. I'm planning to add some of those next.

Doug

 

[stu senator]

A closet is not a shop, just put enough light of the proper color to be able to see your work, whatever you decide. Light is critical to safe work

A simple check the lumen's for a florescent fixture vs LED should show the output. If the web site does not show lumen's forget the site as poor in information and move on.

Not that LEDs are bad, but just compare apples to apples and decide with all the information.

I put some LEDs n my house as they are in a difficult to change location and based on the expected life of the bulbs vs me may put them in my will.

Stu

 

[Mark Hepburn]

A closet is not a shop, just put enough light of the proper color to be able to see your work, whatever you decide. Light is critical to safe work

A simple check the lumen's for a florescent fixture vs LED should show the output. If the web site does not show lumen's forget the site as poor in information and move on.

Not that LEDs are bad, but just compare apples to apples and decide with all the information.

I put some LEDs n my house as they are in a difficult to change location and based on the expected life of the bulbs vs me may put them in my will.

Stu

Stu,

It's a 7 x 12 closet and my shop is only 9 x 24 🙂

And you're absolutely right; it's the lumens that matter. I wear trifocals and find that the older I get (like most of us I guess) the brighter the light I need. I find the light from the LEDs to be really good. I also have some LED gooseneck lamps (3) on a board behind my lathe. I can twist them to nearly any position (also got them at Lowe's for $17 each, compared to the $50+ magnetic base lights).

 

[Mark Wollschlager]

I replaced two balky florescent T12 fixtures in my shop with two LED fixtures from lowes. utilitech brand.
The amount of light is much greater than the old fixtures with half of the energy usage.
I looked at T8 and there was a cost savings up front. I just don't like the tubes.
LED's were around 120 instead of around 65 for the T8. A bit less light output with the T8.
Hopefully I won't have to replace them before I move on. I may replace the other two fixtures eventually.

 

[stu senator]

Stu,

It's a 7 x 12 closet and my shop is only 9 x 24 🙂

And you're absolutely right; it's the lumens that matter. I wear trifocals and find that the older I get (like most of us I guess) the brighter the light I need. I find the light from the LEDs to be really good. I also have some LED gooseneck lamps (3) on a board behind my lathe. I can twist them to nearly any position (also got them at Lowe's for $17 each, compared to the $50+ magnetic base lights).

I also will have a new shop, a 1 car garage that will have a car only in rare cases. I am considering led s for that space also

I got some small led goose neck lamps from IKEA for $10 each. Very small spot but bright, and grafted a replacement magnetic 2 inch base from harbor freight for a total cost of under $15 each.

Stu

 

[Dean Center]

My shop is in my unheated garage, which will get 'as needed' baseboard heat once I get it wired up. Due to the low temp, I bought and tried one of the Lowes LED fixtures and found 1) definitely warmer color than the flourescent tubes I have been using and 2) slightly less light perceived. I like the very white 'temperature' lights (5000-6000K) as the warmer light of the LED and warmer fluorescent tubes do not provide as much contrast. Contrast is very important to those of us with old eyes. The light output of each fluorescent tube is about 2700 lumens and the total of the LED fixture is 3700 lumens, consistent with my personal perception. I believe the Costco LED fixtures have similar specs.

Gretch if your wondrous detached shop is not heated, or you want light while it's warming up, the LED fixture works at any any temperature, unlike fluorescents.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Not sure where you are on finances so I will cover the cheaper route. I had been replacing my T12 8 foot fixtures with T8 from walmart and they have stopped handling them or cannot got a $20 fixture at Home Depot in T8 . This week one of the Walmart units went out so I looked at lights again. Task lighting Is the best way to go for what we do. So I am thinking of getting double floodlight fixtures for about $10 and put LED in it.

There are 2 things to look for with any modern light.
1. Lumens tells the light output. Higher the better.
2. Color temperature tell the color rendition of the light and will make the colors you match or use on your piece look different. Higher color temp is closer to sunlight color. A color temp of 4500 to 6000 is the range to look for. Remember the color temp in your shop will not match your home or the client's home.

The thing most of us want to do is see the workpiece well enough to see scratches and flaws in the piece such as cracks so brighter light or a direct worklight will show this better.

Will have to look at the LED at SAM's to see what the cost works out to on that.

 

[David Hill]

Gretch,
If you want to keep the "tube" lights, I recommend just replacing the fixture--they're not really expen$ive. Ballasts cost as much or more that new fixtures and IMO are not worth replacing.
As long as they continue to make 8ft tubes--that's what I'll use to light my shop.

 

[Ron Rutter]

Ballasts are expensive & the new lights are good & more efficient. The new fluorescents will work in old units. Brighter I think.
I wonder how long the led's will actually last. My experience with CFL's is that todays don't last worth a darn & they supposedly have long lives. I have 2 of the original short double straight tube units that still run ( 15-20 years old!)but am replacing the new ones constantly. Built in obsolescence-nothing new!!

 

[Gretch Flo]

Thanks for all the responses. I will run to H Despot/walmart to see what they got . I think will replace the fixture. Lowe's/sams are further away. My son in law is a bigggggggg supported of LED's. I would win points with him if I got them!!!!!Gretch

 

[stu senator]

You can replace the florescent t8 bulbs with LED's using the same sockets or with slight modifications.

I do not want to give wiring advice but a simple search on goggle of "replace florescent t8 bulbs with LED" shows how to bypass the ballast and wire the bulbs directly. I even found some bulbs that can directly replace the t8's leaving the ballast in the circuit but they depend on the ballast life time not the bulbs.

This way you get to choose the color temp and the light output (within reason) and not depend on what the manufacturer of the fixture supplies.

My garage is or will be a part time shop in south Florida so I do not have to worry about cold, only heat and humidity.

Stu

 

[Gretch Flo]

Lithonia fixture

Went to HD, and saw the array of lights on the wall. The LED's were not impressive. The lithonio 4 ft (2 skinny bulbs) was. I talked to salesman and he said I'd need some wiring, and some? metals brackets that hold the wire from sliding in the entrance hole. The 2 lights supply 8900m lumens!!!! (cost about $9.50 ea) Fixture was $38, plus the accoutrements.
Took it out of box and decided since the weather was crappy, I'd try to install. Didn't get to first base. Instructions on the box don't quite match the anatomy.I had turned on the old fluorescent lights and they flickered again when I turned the dust collector on but became bright again and were fine thru the afternoon. I will get my son in law to help me when i can get "ahold of him" (family tragedy is taking his time and energy.). Since the old lights work, the pressure is off. !!!!! Gretch

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

One thing I forgot . This may not be a significant cost for home shop, but the older a florescent tube gets the less efficient it is and uses more energy. The drug chain I worked for would change all light tubes every 3-4 years to save enough energy to pay for the changeout. I do not have the dollar amounts, but you know corporate America would do nothing that costs more money "out of the goodness of their little hearts" .

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have been using LED lighting for a couple years now and here are my observations.

Daylight white balance is a bit difficult to nail down since it can vary all over the place. There is the somewhat arbitrary standard high noon sunny day value of 5000K, but in the real world, the color of daylight white that value is constantly changing during the day over a very wide range.

Fluorescent lighting is OK when color isn't all that important, but I care about color whn doing things like dyeing wood and when photographing my work. Nothing is as good as natural light for judging color, but there are some very good daylight white LED lights availaable now. They tend to slightly overemphasized blue colors, but they're far better than fluorescent and tungsten.

We are gradually switching our home lighting to LEDs with a color temperature similar to that of tungsten lights (2700K to 3000K) because I prefer the "warmer" look of tungsten to the "cold" look of daylight fluorescent lights. This a good time to mention the disparity between color temperature and how we describe the appearance of light: Light with a color temperature of 2700K is amber colored ... we describe that color of lighting as being "warm" probably because it is the color that we associate with fire. This is near the low end of the color temperature scale for visible light so relatively speaking it would be considered "cool". Near the high color temperature end of visible light, 9500K would be very blue ... a color that we associate with cold. Photographers use blue filters to cool down a scene. So, it is no wonder that color temperature has upset the way that we think about warmth and coolness of colors. Originally, scientists with their curious black body radiator abstractions were the only ones trifling with this notion of color temperature. Then along came digital photography and white balance to confound more people. And finally, newfangled kind of lights to confuse everybody else with color temperature ... and lumens. Back in college nearly a half cantury ago, I figured that this black body radator stuff was interesting only as far as getting a passing grade was concerned, but couldn't possibly be useful for anything in the real world.

 

[Gretch Flo]

I have been using LED lighting for a couple years now and here are my observations.

Daylight white balance is a bit difficult to nail down since it can vary all over the place. There is the somewhat arbitrary standard high noon sunny day value of 5000K, but in the real world, the color of daylight white that value is constantly changing during the day over a very wide range.

Fluorescent lighting is OK when color isn't all that important, but I care about color whn doing things like dyeing wood and when photographing my work. Nothing is as good as natural light for judging color, but there are some very good daylight white LED lights availaable now. They tend to slightly overemphasized blue colors, but they're far better than fluorescent and tungsten.

We are gradually switching our home lighting to LEDs with a color temperature similar to that of tungsten lights (2700K to 3000K) because I prefer the "warmer" look of tungsten to the "cold" look of daylight fluorescent lights. This a good time to mention the disparity between color temperature and how we describe the appearance of light: Light with a color temperature of 2700K is amber colored ... we describe that color of lighting as being "warm" probably because it is the color that we associate with fire. This is near the low end of the color temperature scale for visible light so relatively speaking it would be considered "cool". Near the high color temperature end of visible light, 9500K would be very blue ... a color that we associate with cold. Photographers use blue filters to cool down a scene. So, it is no wonder that color temperature has upset the way that we think about warmth and coolness of colors. Originally, scientists with their curious black body radiator abstractions were the only ones trifling with this notion of color temperature. Then along came digital photography and white balance to confound more people. And finally, newfangled kind of lights to confuse everybody else with color temperature ... and lumens. Back in college nearly a half cantury ago, I figured that this black body radator stuff was interesting only as far as getting a passing grade was concerned, but couldn't possibly be useful for anything in the real world.

Bill -I am confused. You like the warmth of the amber lights but are switching over to the LED's. Aren't these the whiter, "cooler" appearing??
When LED;s got into some cars headlights ,at first, the lights on low beam were "blinding" to me in cars approaching me. I am not blinded now with them. Perhaps they changed the intensity or power or whatever the term is.-maybe due to cataract surgery!!! Gretch.

 

[john lucas]

A lot of confusion here. Contrast has to do more with the size of the light than how bright it is. One of those old style small quartz bulbs about the size of a fat pencil produces a lot of contrast. A large, lets say 12" light produces low contrast. I'm talking about being able to see sanding scratches or small tearout. The smaller bulb at a low angle will produce more contrast because it produces very hard shadows and bright highlights. The bigger lamp produces much softer shadows and highlights so we can't see the fine details as well.
Brightness on the other hand is just that. How many lumens the darn thing puts out. My security flashlight is 500 lumens and will blind you (or hopefully the intruder). My normal flashlights put out about 200 lumens which is much less harsh. Those Headlights in cars are 2 things. Very bright bulbs and more focused so they look even brighter. I hate them. Hurts my eyes at night.
They describe a lot of bulbs these days with color temperature such as 3200K or 5500K. What I'm finding in my testing with a high dollar color temperature meter is many of them have what we call partial spectrum. For our eyes they roughly resemble the correct temperature but to digital cameras they are missing part of the spectrum. I've purchased a half dozen or more "color correct photo bulbs" that are listed as 5500K and have a color rendition index of 92 or higher. They should be dead on with those numbers but every one I've tried takes a little tweaking in photo shop to really nail the color. They just aren't that accurate. For all practical purposes for household use 5500K bulbs are daylight or cooler than the 3200K bulbs that we call warm.
I'd like to see some info on how long the LED's really last. I remember them telling us the FLD's would outlast a regular bulb by quite a ways and in my experience with cheap household bulbs this isn't true. I may change them a little less than tungsten bulbs but at about 4 to 6 times the price that doesn't pay off. LED's when I checked yesterday were about $12 for a cheap one with Tungsten bulbs being about 60 cents. I'm all for saving energy but how much energy does it take to make an LED vs a Tungsten bulb. Well that's a whole nother ball game and I got off topic. I haven't looked at the cost of LED's for shop use yet but will be considering that before to many more months go by.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill -I am confused. You like the warmth of the amber lights but are switching over to the LED's. Aren't these the whiter, "cooler" appearing??
When LED;s got into some cars headlights ,at first, the lights on low beam were "blinding" to me in cars approaching me. I am not blinded now with them. Perhaps they changed the intensity or power or whatever the term is.-maybe due to cataract surgery!!! Gretch.

LED lights are available in several different color temperatures as well as severall different bulb styles. Yes, the early ones are as bad as looking into a laser and in fact have a warning to that effect. However there are some now that are indistinguishable from tungsten in the light they produce and at about 15% of the electrical energy. The brand that I like is Feit and I fet them at my local Ace Hardware.

 

[Bill Boehme]

John, the Feit bulbs claim to last 25,000 or 30,000 hours depending on which particular bulb you get. Regular tungsten bulbs last between 1000 and 2000 hours. At current prices the LED bulbs cost about three times more, but the savings in energy usage is huge.

It isn't just the size of the light source, but also the spectral bandwidth. There are some Coast LED flashlights that have warnings that they can cause eye damage because the spectral bandwidth is close to the extremely narrow bandwidth of lasers.

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Went to HD, and saw the array of lights on the wall. The LED's were not impressive. The lithonio 4 ft (2 skinny bulbs) was. I talked to salesman and he said I'd need some wiring, and some? metals brackets that hold the wire from sliding in the entrance hole. The 2 lights supply 8900m lumens!!!! (cost about $9.50 ea) Fixture was $38, plus the accoutrements.

I have not been impressed by the LED shop lights at HD. For some reason they have been missing the boat. Lithonia makes many fixtures but I'm guessing you found the skinny T5 high output fluorescents which really are impressive in terms of lumens.

Great discussion folks!

Doug

 

[Gretch Flo]

I have not been impressed by the LED shop lights at HD. For some reason they have been missing the boat. Lithonia makes many fixtures but I'm guessing you found the skinny T5 high output fluorescents which really are impressive in terms of lumens.

Great discussion folks!

Doug

Yes Doug I think they are T5, preceded by some other numbers and followed by others. What is impressive is made by Phillips in Holland-NOT CHINA!!!!!! My other lights are working fine today the 2 hours I was in the basement shop-Gorgeous day, and my 2 young grandchildren "helped" me plant flowers,
rake do other chores to "make $", Gretch

 

[Mark Hepburn]

A lot of confusion here. Contrast has to do more with the size of the light than how bright it is. One of those old style small quartz bulbs about the size of a fat pencil produces a lot of contrast. A large, lets say 12" light produces low contrast. I'm talking about being able to see sanding scratches or small tearout. The smaller bulb at a low angle will produce more contrast because it produces very hard shadows and bright highlights. The bigger lamp produces much softer shadows and highlights so we can't see the fine details as well.
Brightness on the other hand is just that. How many lumens the darn thing puts out. My security flashlight is 500 lumens and will blind you (or hopefully the intruder). My normal flashlights put out about 200 lumens which is much less harsh. Those Headlights in cars are 2 things. Very bright bulbs and more focused so they look even brighter. I hate them. Hurts my eyes at night.
They describe a lot of bulbs these days with color temperature such as 3200K or 5500K. What I'm finding in my testing with a high dollar color temperature meter is many of them have what we call partial spectrum. For our eyes they roughly resemble the correct temperature but to digital cameras they are missing part of the spectrum. I've purchased a half dozen or more "color correct photo bulbs" that are listed as 5500K and have a color rendition index of 92 or higher. They should be dead on with those numbers but every one I've tried takes a little tweaking in photo shop to really nail the color. They just aren't that accurate. For all practical purposes for household use 5500K bulbs are daylight or cooler than the 3200K bulbs that we call warm.
I'd like to see some info on how long the LED's really last. I remember them telling us the FLD's would outlast a regular bulb by quite a ways and in my experience with cheap household bulbs this isn't true. I may change them a little less than tungsten bulbs but at about 4 to 6 times the price that doesn't pay off. LED's when I checked yesterday were about $12 for a cheap one with Tungsten bulbs being about 60 cents. I'm all for saving energy but how much energy does it take to make an LED vs a Tungsten bulb. Well that's a whole nother ball game and I got off topic. I haven't looked at the cost of LED's for shop use yet but will be considering that before to many more months go by.

John,

I know this is off topic, but:

I'm still trying to sort out proper lighting for my photos. Using a coup,e of soft box lights and shooting in raw with a Sony a3000 (18-55 lens is what it came with). I find that, as you say, I still have to tweak in Photoshop. Are there any CFL or LED lights you have found to be accurate in temperature across a spectrum that is meaningful to the camera?

 

[Hu Lowery]

indoor/outdoor safety glasses

. . . .

Those Headlights in cars are 2 things. Very bright bulbs and more focused so they look even brighter. I hate them. Hurts my eyes at night.
. . . .

John,

I keep some indoor/outdoor wrap around safety glasses in my truck for night and city driving. I have felt like dark glasses mess up my depth perception for years so I only wear them on the highway in bright sunlight. The indoor/outdoor glasses help a little in fog too. I just buy the cheap ones so they don't change tint but that is fine, I don't want these to. I used to wear standard sunglasses which didn't work bad but I tended to get eye flash from the side, the worst place. The wrap arounds don't have that issue and the light tint is enough to take the worst off of the lights coming at me like some cars still have and the lights of the inconsiderate "people" who run white "fog lights" all the time! I used to favor night driving on long trips and eye protection made a big difference driving all night.

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

John,

I know this is off topic, but:

I'm still trying to sort out proper lighting for my photos. Using a coup,e of soft box lights and shooting in raw with a Sony a3000 (18-55 lens is what it came with). I find that, as you say, I still have to tweak in Photoshop. Are there any CFL or LED lights you have found to be accurate in temperature across a spectrum that is meaningful to the camera?

Since you are shooting in raw, all that you need to do is to shoot a white balance target such as a Whi-Bal card to set the white balance for that particular shooting session and then use Adobe Camera Raw to set the white balance of all the images to match the setting of the reference shot[SUP]1[/SUP]. All lighting changes continuously whether it is tungsten, fluorescent, LED, or flash. I have some 500 watt bulbs (4800K) that have a life of about six hours and I shoot a white balance reference shot every few minutes because the white balance actually changes that fast. It isn't necessary to create an in-camera custom white balance unless you want to get JPG images out of the camera. Certainly don't count on finding lighting that is going to precisely match any of the built-in white balance settings -- they are just ball park settings for those who want JPG out of the camera and don't want to mess with post processing.

Even better than shooting a white balance reference card is shooting a 24-patch Gretag-Macbeth target and creating a custom color profile if you want absolutely perfect color. X-rite sells a product called Color Checker Passport that includes the target plus software for automatically creating the profile. I think that it is pretty expensive, but I got it as part of a package that came with an i1 Display Pro calibrator.

[SUP]1[/SUP] Added for clarification

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Since you are shooting in raw, all that you need to do is to shoot a white balance target such as a Whi-Bal card to set the white balance for that particular shooting session and then use Adobe Camera Raw to set the white balance of all the images to match the setting of the reference shot[SUP]1[/SUP]. All lighting changes continuously whether it is tungsten, fluorescent, LED, or flash. I have some 500 watt bulbs (4800K) that have a life of about six hours and I shoot a white balance reference shot every few minutes because the white balance actually changes that fast. It isn't necessary to create an in-camera custom white balance unless you want to get JPG images out of the camera. Certainly don't count on finding lighting that is going to precisely match any of the built-in white balance settings -- they are just ball park settings for those who want JPG out of the camera and don't want to mess with post processing.

Even better than shooting a white balance reference card is shooting a 24-patch Gretag-Macbeth target and creating a custom color profile if you want absolutely perfect color. X-rite sells a product called Color Checker Passport that includes the target plus software for automatically creating the profile. I think that it is pretty expensive, but I got it as part of a package that came with an i1 Display Pro calibrator.

[SUP]1[/SUP] Added for clarification

Hey Bill,

Thanks for checking in. I'm going to start a new thread on this if you don't mind, because I have a bunch of questions and maybe this will be helpful to others also. I really appreciate the help and if it's okay, I'm going to include your post in the new thread?

Mark

 

[olaf Vogel]

I have not been impressed by the LED shop lights at HD. For some reason they have been missing the boat. Lithonia makes many fixtures but I'm guessing you found the skinny T5 high output fluorescents which really are impressive in terms of lumens.

Great discussion folks!

Doug

My impression is the same. 5 years ago I bought a reno'd house. All new light/electrical fixtures from HD.
Most have been replaced by now - I had a very high failure rate. HD is good about replacement under warranty, but I don't want to be doing all the extra work...

Due to sky-rocketing electricity costs in Ontario, I've played around with many "high efficiency" solutions.

LED replacement bulbs - generally very expensive, low lumens, color temp is all over the map. In pot lights or track lights, not good - I'd need to at least double up the number of fixtures. Supposedly longer life, but again, that proved not true. I eventually bought a case, really cheap off eBay. Some were good, others not. But the per bulb cost came down from $29 to $5.

The "cool" look is as blue as you can get. But that distorts the colors like crazy, and IMO produced lower light levels

LED strips, these may have potential, but haven't tried them.

Incandescent - still often the nicest color temp, but inefficient, hot and lowest life.

Florescent is still may favourite. I picked up a case of compact florescent 4' tubes at the Habitat Restore. These are liberally strung throughout the shop. Take a while to warm up, especially in the winter. But give great light. No issues so far. These lights are $45 ea though at HD etc. Would not have bought them at regular price.

My work-light is an el-cheapo Ikea desk lamp with a 200w (equivalent) photo compact florescent) excellent light and wont burn the inevitable shavings hitting it.

I played around with HID bulbs (spare off the car) as a work-light. Great light, very hot, buzzes.

My outdoor lights are high pressure sodium. Painfully bright at 45w each. Fine for outside, but not in the shop.
They buzz, color temp is very blue and need about 5 min to warn up. Turn them off and they need to cool, then go through the cycle again.

Having looked at various solutions, I must say that the manufacturers have managed to flood the market with data, specs and total confusion. There's a lot of marketing hype, but not clarity. When I did the math, the "energy efficient" bulbs, even long life, had a VERY long payback. (mostly 5+ years) and I have little faith they will last that long. In fact, I'm convinced that the firms are betting that in 5 years, you will have lost your receipt, forgot where you bought it etc and you will not get it replaced.

For those reasons, I stayed with tried and true: fluorescent.

</rant>
🙂

 

[Jamie Straw]

LED all the way...

Count me in on the LED bandwagon. Fluorescent fixtures and bulbs have been such a royal pain over the years (radio interference, ballasts go out, bulbs go out and can't be tossed in the trash, they explode if you happen to bump one), I just hate them. The last couple of summers, Costco has had LED shop-light fixtures for about $38. I have 4 waiting to go up ASAP, and based on the one that is in another workspace, I think they'll be great.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Count me in on the LED bandwagon. Fluorescent fixtures and bulbs have been such a royal pain over the years (radio interference, ballasts go out, bulbs go out and can't be tossed in the trash, they explode if you happen to bump one), I just hate them. The last couple of summers, Costco has had LED shop-light fixtures for about $38. I have 4 waiting to go up ASAP, and based on the one that is in another workspace, I think they'll be great.

I'm with you on the LED. put em up and done. I know there was some discussion around color temperature, and so on. But for me and my trifocal glasses and failing vision what I need is lots of brightness and they can certainly deliver.

And for me, someone higher up front expense is definitely outweighed by the long-term operating benefits.

I just went to Costco websbite and they have a two pack of Feit LED shop lights. 4'. 3700 lumens. $79.99

 

[Bill Boehme]

I'm with you on the LED. put em up and done. I know there was some discussion around color temperature, and so on. But for me and my trifocal glasses and failing vision what I need is lots of brightness and they can certainly deliver.

And for me, someone higher up front expense is definitely outweighed by the long-term operating benefits.

I just went to Costco website and they have a two pack of Feit LED shop lights. 4'. 3700 lumens. $79.99

Feit is the brand that I have been buying and I think that they have figured things out. The best thing is that you can get their bulbs in warm (2700K - 3000K) and daylight (5000K to 5500K). They state their 25,000 hour estimated life based on 3 hours per day. Leaving the lights on all the time will shorten the life somewhat because of semiconductor junction heat accelerating ion migration (as if ...). Of course predicting lifetime by accelerated life testing or calculating semiconductor junction life is a bit of an estimate until we reach the future time where we know for certain. I have tried some other brands and they were a disappointment in light output and color. Usually you can spot those by the absurd claims on the package like 5000 lumens from 4 watts -- which is physically impossible.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Feit is the brand that I have been buying and I think that they have figured things out. The best thing is that you can get their bulbs in warm (2700K - 3000K) and daylight (5000K to 5500K). They state their 25,000 hour estimated life based on 3 hours per day. Leaving the lights on all the time will shorten the life somewhat because of semiconductor junction heat accelerating ion migration (as if ...). Of course predicting lifetime by accelerated life testing or calculating semiconductor junction life is a bit of an estimate until we reach the future time where we know for certain. I have tried some other brands and they were a disappointment in light output and color. Usually you can spot those by the absurd claims on the package like 5000 lumens from 4 watts -- which is physically impossible.

Bill, since when did impossibility hinder a marketing department? 🙂

I agree, just kidding. But if you think of using the light 6 hours per day - which I couldn't do because I don't get into the shop most days until 6:30 or so - then you get 4,166ish days. Even cutting that in half would still be nearly 6 years. I also use their giant, plastic coated CFLs on my lathe lighting rig along with some gooseneck LEDs for spot light.

I'm okay with either end of the K spectrum because I don't do any finish or painting work in the shop. I just need tons of bright light.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I was doing some coloring today with Chestnut dyes. I was working outdoors so that I could actually see the colors. When I took it indoors, the purple looked almost black and the brown looked slightly purple under the fluorescent lighting in the kitchen. Led lighting was a bit better, but since our LED lights are warm rather than daylight, they weren't too much better. I probably should have mixed the dyes to get a lavender since people aren't going to carry things outdoors to be able to see all the colors.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Here is an iPad shot of the thing that I was coloring. This month's challenge turning is supposed to be a long stem goblet. I wouldn't know a goblet from a mug or a chalice or a stein so I just winged it and came up with this. It looked more like a flower when I finished so I figured why not make it a flower.



It seems like the only decent lighting without setting up my photo floods were the lights on my lathe.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Here is an iPad shot of the thing that I was coloring. This month's challenge turning is supposed to be a long stem goblet. I wouldn't know a goblet from a mug or a chalice or a stein so I just winged it and came up with this. It looked more like a flower when I finished so I figured why not make it a flower.

View attachment 8474

It seems like the only decent lighting without setting up my photo floods were the lights on my lathe.

Beautiful. Love the coloring and the form.

 

[Raul McCai]

Visually speaking, I don't get good color unless I have incandescent lights in the mix