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finishing walnut

J

Jake Truxal

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Apr 16, 2009
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I made a 6" walnut bowl, sanded to 600 grit. then applied Hut Crystal Clear friction finish and got a matte finish. 2 days later I buffed with tripoli and white diamond. I didn't have any carnauba wax so i used I aplied Johnson paste wax and buffed ( I used 3 different buffing wheels for each). I was hoping for a high gloss finish. The bowl is smooth as glass but I still have only a matte finish. This is my first attempt using a friction finish and wasn't sure if I did something wrong or is this the best finsih I'm going to get with this finish on walnut. (I read on some previous thread that this polish results in a matte finish on walnut). Are you supposed to apply multiple layers of the polish? I spread the finish on the whole bowl with lathe stopped then went back and forth over it several times, so I guess technically I applied one coat. I did the same procedure on a black cherry bowl with pretty much the same results, a little more glossy but not what I was hoping for. I think I did the buffing at about 1650 rpms.

I've seen some people say to buff with tripoli and white diamond before and after applying the finish, which i did not do.

I'm a newbie so any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.
 
Jake
I can't answer all your questions, but..

I do (black) walnut items. Last nights was a walnut feature ring on a segmented flower stand. All I usually do is sand, buff and wax
I never use white-diamond though. The dark color of the wood, with the mixture of open pores, causes some of the white-diamond to remain in the pores. This may be a part of your issues with your final finish

TTFN
Ralph
 
Friction Finishes

Jake,

It has been my experience that friction type finishes do not perform well on larger surfaces like bowls. They are meant for smaller items like pens, key rings, stoppers and other similar projects. You really need to wind up the speed to generate some heat through friction to get these products to their maximum gloss. I have found that very hard to do on bowls, even 6" diam. I believe the Hut product you are using is a shellac based product similar to French polish. These finishes do not self level or flow out to give the high gloss of other compounds. Shellac is also fairly soft, especially when heated by buffing.

My recommendation is to consider other finishes in the future. Maybe lacquer which, when properly applied, dries fast to a high gloss. Finishing is another whole area of woodworking which takes time and experience to master. I have not done it yet myself. There are 2 things a high quality gloss finish will never be-fast and easy.

Best of luck,

Don
 
Not a fan of friction polishes. Shellac applied while sitting watching the tube in a sort of mock French polish manner - all the rub with none of the grit - is easy, can be built to any depth of gloss you want, and can be cut back with Tripoli to a semi-gloss by careful abrasion. Wonderful finish for "lookers."

It isn't how fast you rub, but how well you rub that counts with wax, just as it isn't how fast, but how fine you grind with your Tripoli or rouge. Any chance you might be a bit damp under the finish? That would certainly do what is happening to you.
 
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Fortunately, I have a lot of Walnut on hand and make a lot of pens, bottle stoppers, small boxes, etc. The best and fastest finish I have found is 'Deft'. While still on the lathe apply a generous coat the rub in with a paper towel, turn the lathe on to polish and dry at the same time with the paper towel. This should give you a high gloss , durable finish. Hope this helps 😀
Clint Merrill
 
Thanks all, since I already applied the friction polish and the paste wax, what would I have to do to apply the deft, would buffing with tripoli be enough or would the bowl need to be sanded down to bare wood first?
 
Jake,
My two cents is that finsihing may be more difficult than turning. Yes you would need to sand off the friction polish before applying any other finish. Move on to the next piece and enjoy the current piece as it is. Re-do's alway seem to tempt Muphy's Law at a higher rate than normal.

My favorite finish for Walnut is oil and the oil I prefer is Minwax Antique oil. It gives me a nice shine but not the 'glass gloss' that can make a piece turn cool and plastic-like.

Frank
 
Walnut finish

Hi Jake,

Been there. Done that. Turned a nice walnut bowl and tried to beall buff it only to find the white diamond had stuck in all the pores. Here is my current process for walnut and I've gotten pretty good results from it. Once you are done sanding apply sanding sealer. I use Mylands. It may take more than one coat with a light sanding between coats. Once you are sure the last coat is dry, I usually wait overnight, go ahead and buff with your beall system. The sanding sealer should have filled the pores so you can use the tripoli, white diamond, and carnuba with no fear.

Jim
 
It isn't how fast you rub, but how well you rub that counts with wax, just as it isn't how fast, but how fine you grind with your Tripoli or rouge. Any chance you might be a bit damp under the finish? That would certainly do what is happening to you.[/QUOTE]

I think Michael has a good point on the moisture content. I have turned several black walnut pieces thought they were dry and finished them with tung oil and a wipe on poly to a beutifull shine only to see them cloud up over night like the ring left if you put a glass on a wood table. If your looking for an easy finish I found the wipe on poly from minwax very user friendly 3 coats with light sanding between each really gets nice.
 

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I did turn the bowl from green wood and finished right away after sanding, plus I wetted it a few times to raise the grain while sanding so I suppose the wood could have been damp when i finished it. The finish was never glossy and dulled though, it came out just semi-shiny. How long should I let it dry between sanding and finishing?

Was it maybe because I used the paste wax instead of carnuba or is that ok to use?

How does the white diamond in the grain appear? do you actully see white speckles (which i don't ) or is it so fine that it just dulls the color? I'll try the sealer on the next bowl before finishing.

I also have a "raising the grain" question. In the past I would always wet the wood and wait until it dried (at least appeared dry on the surface) before sanding because I assumed sanding it wet would tear the wet fibers away. Then I saw a post on this forum where someone mentioned they sand while the wood is wet, which i tried on this bowl and I was surprised to end up with a very smooth surface and it seemed to quicken the sanding process. it sure clogs up the sandpaper though, so i used older worn pieces on the wet wood.
 
Here is a piece I tried to finish with just paste wax you can see the specks were it went into the pores and can't be buffed out. This is also what happens with the fine sanding dust when you went sand it cakes in the pores and can dull the finish. If you have a compressor you should blow it out before finishing. I use straight Naptha for wet sanding so it evaperates very quickly but wil still help get the grain up.As far as drying time I'll be watching to see what others say:cool2:
 

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velvit oil

ya might want to try velvit oil on black walnut, wait 10 to 20 minutes and wet sand only after 1st coat, it will raise a paste that will fill in pores, i usually use 2 or 3 coats of oil then ya can buff with white diamond 😀
 
I've never used Naptha but I'm guessing it requires lots of ventilation? Unfortunately my shop is in a 15 X 20 enclosed area in one end of the basement (the rest of the basement is finished) and I have no outside access for ventilation. I just have a dust collection system and just picked up a ceiling mount air filter which I still have to install. I'm sure the stains and other finishes I already use in there should have ventilation too... A portion of my back wall is above grade and I've thought about installing some kind of fan thru the concrete block but was worried about how it would look from the outside. Anybody have a similiar ventilation problem that they solved. I'd love to hear suggestions.
 
Jake Truxal said:
I did turn the bowl from green wood and finished right away after sanding, plus I wetted it a few times to raise the grain while sanding so I suppose the wood could have been damp when i finished it. The finish was never glossy and dulled though, it came out just semi-shiny. How long should I let it dry between sanding and finishing?
Click to expand...

How about from turning to finishing, something that allows you to save your sandpaper and arrives at the same destination? Definitive answer is to weigh the piece and when it stops losing, it's equalized. "Good enough" is to give the wood a kiss. If the wood seems cool to your lips, it's still a bit too wet for finishing.

I don't fine sand until the piece is dry, which will take a week or two at 3/8" thick and ~50% humidity. I hate clogging paper, because I can then build friction and heat check the bowl if I'm not careful. I also set up the grain with water after the first 320 and sand along the grain uphill. But I wait until the surface is dry, whether quiescently or with help of compressed air.

Waxing after buffing with the white stuff will hide it. Buffing with a brush will dig almost all of it out if you're not going to wax. I don't fear buffing properly treated bark any more since I got a little brush to use on my flex shaft.
 
Jake,

If you're looking for a smooth high gloss "piano" finish on Walnut, you'll need to fill the pores in this open grained wood. There are 2 basic ways to do this after you get your piece finish sanded.

First, is to apply many coats of material (poly, lacquer, varnish, etc.), cutting each back with abrasives and thereby filling up all those little pits with finish. This gets to be a long and tedious process, and wastes a lot of finish that winds up as sanding dust between coats.

Second, (the one I use) is a 3-step routine that gives predictable results.
Step 1 is to seal the wood and impart some "pop" to the grain. I use Waterlox sealer (tung oil), but danish oil like Watco will do as well. You can also do this with a couple of applications of 1 lb. cut dewaxed shellac as it will penetrate the wood fibers rather well to add visual depth to the finish. You can increase penetration by retarding the shellac with lacquer retarder or a few drops of gum turpentine. Mix your own from flakes or use Zinsser's SealCoat. Either way, you'll need to gently resand the piece with 800 grit and just hand support.

Step 2 is to fill the pores. I use Crystalac waterborne filler because it fills and lightly raises the grain at the same time, but there are others just as good. Do this in two applications following directions for the particular product with a light sanding in between. Again use your fine sand paper to level the surface, then carefully remove the dust.

Step 3 is to apply your topcoat of choice. On the pictured walnut bowl (14"x7") I used 3 applications of Waterlox hi-gloss finish lightly wet-sanded in between with 1,000 grit SC paper and mineral spirits, each wiped off to remove the slurry. When the final coat has dried and set (4-5 days), the piece can be rubbed out. I prefer the Menzerna products for this, but I've gotten good results with Meguire's auto body compounds as well. Final polish is with a lamb's wool pad on a drill. I never use high speed buffs and tripoli (or other metal compounds) because they develop too much heat, work grease into the surface, and can easily burn through or blister a layered finish leaving witness lines that will require the piece to be stripped and refinished.

Hope this helps.
 

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Tripoli and white diamond are abrasive. If you heavily buff a bowl finished with a surface film finish (ex: poly, lacquer or shellac) with them you could buff right through the finish to bare wood. I found that out the hard way...even after letting the finish dry for a week. I now use a penetrating oil finish (Watco), then after dry, buff that with the two abrasive buffs. I've found that helps prevent the white buildup for walnut.
 
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