Finishing suggestion

[C Edward Moore]

I have been doing a series of small turned boxes recently and decided to try Hut Crystal Coat instead of the usual Mylands Friction Finish. The ambrosia maple finished up nicely, except that some of the wax coagulated in the holes. A toothpick and the air compressor helped there.

Then I turned a box from some nice walnut and noted that there were some white specks in the finish, mostly in the end grain. So, I turned another walnut box and instead of putting the Hut on directly, I sprayed some Zinsser shellac on it and wiped it with a cloth (without the lathe running). Then I applied the Crystal Coat and got a beautiful finish -- without the white speckling.

My conclusion is that I like the results of the Crystal Coat, but I will always put shellac on the piece first. So, I bought another bottle yesterday while at Woodcraft.

 

[Dr_dewey]

how do you apply it?

I have the Mylands friction stuff, never could get a good finish with it. It is a shellac based product from the smell. What is the difference with the new Crystal coat product? I've been using General Products Salad Bowl Finish with good success, but always on the watch for something new.

Could you explain how they are applied successfully, much appreciated in advance.

 

[C Edward Moore]

Both Mylands Friction Finish and Hut Crystal Coat are shellac-based, which is why I decided to use shellac as a sealer on the walnut.

I don't believe that either product is intended for large items, and I think boxes may be the upper limit on size. This is just a guess, but maybe the Hut requires just a little less heat from the friction. Like you suggested, I had problems with streaking when using Mylands. Now maybe that was because I wasn't using enough speed.

I applied the Hut to the piece with the lathe stopped. I used small pieces of the heavy blue paper towels and put it on by smearing it over the intended surface. Then I turn the lathe on to about 7/8 my turning speed and start polishing on the "wet spot" on the piece of towel. Sometimes I turn the speed up to about 10 per cent higher than my normal turning speed at the end. I keep moving the piece of towel around while applying pressure with one finger. As you move your finger you can watch to see if there are changes in that part of the surface, or if it is "done". If I am not competely pleased I reapply the finish over what I have and polish it again. Once I wasn't paying attention and some of the blue towel remained on the surface. I just took some alcohol, wiped the complete surface down, let it dry, used the Abralon 4000 pad to smooth it, blew the dust off with the compressor, and reapplied the finish.

One of the bugaboos of small boxes is sanding the lid too aggressively and having the paper get hot. This can cause "micro-checks" and it destroys the piece. Having had that happen when making beaded boxes a couple of times I have been cautious when applying a friction finish. That did not happen here, but these tops are a little thicker than the beaded ones.

I have described some of my foibles so as to make the point that this finish is somewhat forgiving. You can retouch and reapply the Hut and it will buff so that overlap is not noticeable.

I don't think I would use it or any other friction finish on a bowl over 4 inches in diameter. It might work, but .... , I haven't tried it. As I pointed out in the original post, I now use spray shellac as a base-coat for the Hut and it seems to work fine.

 

[Dr_dewey]

good info

Yep you covered all the things that have happened to me, streaks and blue towel dissolves. Must have tried to build it too fast. then hit with some alcohol to smooth it down and more mess, wipe it off, try again, wipe it off, Salad bowl finish.
it is not like "french Polish" at least the way shown many years ago in shop class.

Have some small items to finish this weekend so will give it another shot.

 

[C Edward Moore]

Dr Dewey,

I'm doing a demo on boxes in a couple of weeks and thought about using the title "Fifty things that you can do wrong when making a box".

I was careful not to put too much Hut on at a time. It also helps not to use the "wet spot" too much when polishing, or at least to use a new one by adding a little finish.

It is my impression that the Hut goes on a little easier than the Mylands. And it gives an excellent finish which feels great. (No, I don't own any Hut stock.)

 

[Dr_dewey]

i'll work on my technique with the Mylands for now. Again thanx for the advice. I also have a bottle of Hard Shellac from Ubeaut that has been put aside because it didn't work as well as advertised. Have you tried that one?

Good luck on your demo, what do they say for tuners ala - break a leg??

 

[William Young]

I have never tried the Hut product but I sure do like the Mylands high build friction polish for small projects like boxes. I have never had a minute's problem with the application of it. I finished the one show below with it and it is so fast and easy to apply.
It may be that I got used to using it with making over one hundred pens firts and then when I started turning boxes etc, I just followed what I had previously done.
I love using the Mylands finish for things like boxes that dont get handled a great deal but for pens , I now give my customers a choice of a friction finish or a WB laquer finish at a slightly higher price ($5.00) because the friction finish can dissapear quite rapidly , sometimes within weeks on some woods with body oils and chemicals on some peoples hands but the WB laquer finish I am using should last the life of the pen.
W.Y.

 

[C Edward Moore]

Hut or Mylands?

Hi William,

Your support for the Mylands finish is quite reasonable. Nice box, too.

Please note that I did not knock the Mylands, I only indicated that I have a slight preference for the Hut Crystal Coat. Try it, you might like it, too.

Like you, I wish the shellac finishes were more durable and long-lasting.

 

[William Young]

Ed;
I didn't think for a minute that you were knocking the Mylands finish.
All finishes seem to have their own peculiarities. But something I forgot to mention in my previous post which may be of some help to Ray and others is that I always use the Tripple EEE Ultrashine product previous to using the Mylands High Build Friction polish. Whether that is the secret of my success with the Mylands product or not I don't know but it does work every time for me. Maybe it gives the Mylands a base to properly work on.

Here again, that is just a roll-over from how I started with pens and it just seemed natural to continue when applying the finish to other turnings.
W.Y.

 

[Norm Smith]

I use EEE Ultrashine and Shellawax Cream and have had great results on large and small pieces.
Norm

 

[C Edward Moore]

EEE Ultra Shine

Being unfamiliar with EEE Ultrashine, I just checked out the website and learned that it contains tripoli/rottenstone as an abrasive. I strongly suspect that like the other products we have been discussing, it has shellac in it too.

I have used Shellawax and feel that Hut Crystal Coat is very similar, but a little more liquified. My current container of Shellawax would probably benefit from the addition of a little alcohol.

What is the consistency of EEE Ultra Shine? Is it creamy like Shellawax or liquid? It might be interesting to try a test. Sand a small piece to 400 or better, apply a coat of spray shellac and wipe it off with a cloth. Then apply EEE Ultra Shine. Then apply either of the three products that we have mentioned (Hut, Mylands, Shellawax).

And since this thread started with white spots in walnut it would be useful to check out the sequences of product use that leave them and which ones don't.

 

[Dr_dewey]

Ed: you figure the wax caused the white spots. when i got the mylands bottle out there was a layer (biege) of something under the brownish shellac. would that be some type of wax, or does the crystal stuff just have wax. tried some on a small part and it did build to a semi gloss. is that the expectation or should it be a high gloss?

 

[C Edward Moore]

white spots

Ray,

The white spots were like dust in the pores of the wood. If a finish goes over this dust and does not engage it, then it is as if dust is trapped under the finish. The shellac is thin and quite penetrating, so it does penetrate everything and does not allow little dust pockets to escape attention. Now I used an air compressor at length to dislodge any dust before applying the Hut finish as described in my original post, but I think sometimes it gets burnished into the wood and it isn't just sitting there waiting to have air or a tack rag get rid of it.

The Mylands Friction Finish, Shellawax, and Hut Crystal Coat, are all shellac, wax, and solvent - in some mix, or at least I believe that to be true. When we apply any of these products with a piece of paper towel or a rag, then some of the solvent is absorbed by the paper/rag and some mix of solvent/shellac and wax is rubbed on the surface. Sometimes I think the wax "clogs the pores" and prevents the shellac and solvent from penetrating. That is why heat is so important to this process - it dissolves the mixture even further and allows more penetration. The wax and heat seem to help polish the shellac that is present. (Ed's interpretation of what is happening. )

You indicated a less than optimal result when you applied the Mylands. My suggestion is to reapply the Mylands and turn the speed up a little and let the heat build up. If this is a slightly larger piece I think the heat does not build up as effectively and you don't get as good a "flow" as you might on a smaller one. If you are near the bottom of the container of Mylands you might consider adding a little denatured alcohol, putting the top back on and shaking the heck out of it. (The sequence matters here )

Today I made a small walnut box with an inset maple burl top and ebony finial. I used my shellac and then applied the Hut and got great results. There were no white pores, and it has a nice gloss finish that is nice to touch.

 

[William Young]

Norm;
Like you, I have also had success with friction finish on larger ones . I have also heard good things about shellawax that you are using along with EEE but I have never tried it (yet).
I do some with friction finish and some with just watco oil and when they are placed side by side I generally get the oohs and aahhhs from the friction finished ones. I suppose it is all in the eyes of the beholder and what they intend to use the item for. This particular one is one of my first larger turnings and it is only 10" across but somebody saw that one right away and it had a new home.
W.Y.