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Finishing Salad Bowls

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Little Rapids, Newfoundland and Labrador
I am relatively new to turning and have a special project. A hurricane blew down a maple on my son's property. I took some of the wood, cut blanks and will soon be ready to turn.
I am planning a salad serving bowl and salad bowls as an anniversary present for him and his wife.
I have been trying to figure out what to use for a finish. It needs to be resistant to the acids of salad dressing, stain from food pigments such as blueberries, and able to withstand washing with soap and water. Oh, and food safe, obviously.
In the reading I have done recommendations are all over the place.
What would people suggest/ have experience with?
 
There are many threads discussing this and just as many opinions. Soap and water are not a good thing for any wood finish. Do a search on this site. Mahoney’s walnut oil is a good choice but you’ll need to reoil periodically no matter what you use.
 
I've tried many options over the years for finishing bowls and keep going back to what my original mentor suggested over two decades ago - General Finish's Salad Bowl finish. Its a mix of penetrating oils and varnish, generously thinned so it penetrates well and quickly. I sand only to 320 or 400 grit at most, put on two coats of oil well rubbed in and follow with a good paste wax - Johnson's or Claphams. This finish has held up on regularly used bowls literally for decades. an occasional re-wax is all it takes to renew for the most part. It used to be called Wooden Bowl Finish, but they recently changed the name...same stuff.

I prefer a softer finish as opposed to a glossy sheen, but this stuff can give you either depending on how it is applied. My preference is two penetrating coats followed by wax applied with a gray scothbrite pad and hand buffed to a low sheen. On those rare occasions when I want a glosier look, two more coats and a buff with Beall tripoli only followed by wax does the trick.

I've experimented with options like Osmo oil, mineral oil/wax mixes and walnut oils. The closest competitor has been Doctor's Walnut oil (the version with wax), but I keep coming back to the General finish because it is simple and foolproof, lasts a very long time in use.

As with most finishes, when fully cured (no smell) its food safe.
 
I tried Walnut oil but it went rancid on the bowl.
Then it was probably not an oil intended for finishes - There's Walnut oil used in cooking recipes often found at grocery store, and then there's walnut oil intended for finishing wood (Typically polymerized so it actually cures) Most finishes are food safe once fully cured, however a film finish like varnish (like General Finishes mentioned earlier, or what used to be Formby's Tung Oil finish, long since gone nowadays) has capability to chip away and you end up with particles of varnish in your food, which may not be desirable. Plus as such a film finish wears it shows all the scratches and scrapes from utensils.

I'd recommend an oil and wax finish - at its simplest, you can soak it in plain food grade mineral oil (sold as a laxative in pharmacy aisle, often.) followed by a good rub down of wax (beeswax is all natural) which helps seal out (temporarily) staining and acids and stuff (Though I would not suggest that any food be left to sit in it all day long, for example- Even a varnish finish will not prevent pigment stains, acids, and moisture from getting into the wood.) Or you can get something like Tried & True original which is Polymerized Linseed oil and Beeswax (Not BLO which has lots of chemicals and driers to it)

On the other hand, you could use the same finish they used back in the days of the Pilgrims (1600's) which is - NO FINISH! - just bare wood with daily use, their bowls could last through several generations with no problems - Mainly because most such utensils only held food long enough for it to be eaten and then right after the meal, dishes were washed.. The natural oils , fats, etc from the foods in daily use usually did not sit long enough to become moldy or grow rancid (Which technically is what any oil does when it is cured - It goes rancid....) and such regular use, the bowl naturally darkened from all the different food pigments that stained it anyway, so eventually such stains became unnoticeable. Eventually, a bowl made out of white-ish wood like Maple, Ash, etc would turn a dark brown or even nearly black such that you couldn't tell by color what wood it was made from...
 
On my personal salad bowls I don't put any finish. I use tried and true original on other food use bowls but it doesn't really matter, if it's going to be heavily used whatever finish you put on there is going to wear away with washing.
There are a million threads on this all over the internet and a million different answers. The only thing that stands up to each and every criteria you have is epoxy and at that point its just a plastic bowl.
 
I believe if you’re using a straight oil like Walnut, Jojoba, Olive, Avocado, you run a chance of it going rancid, just like it would in your cupboard.
Making sure your piece is dry and has plenty of air around it as it dries out should hopefully prevent this
 
I believe if you’re using a straight oil like Walnut, Jojoba, Olive, Avocado, you run a chance of it going rancid, just like it would in your cupboard.
Making sure your piece is dry and has plenty of air around it as it dries out should hopefully prevent this

Walnut is a drying oil, the others aren’t.

“The three most common oils which set on their own are linseed, walnut and tung oil.”

 
Walnut is a drying oil, the others aren’t.
Depends on what kind of walnut oil. There are different kinds of walnut oil, including cold-pressed and refined walnut oil. Walnut oil (meant for cooking) can go rancid if not stored properly, as it is sensitive to light, heat, and oxygen.

There's the stuff commonly used for cooking, it isn't especially suited for woodworking (Even though by many accounts it can cure.) Then there's the stuff meant for woodworking, most of which is often polymerized (Heat treated) and filtered. Both kinds can be pure walnut oil, but the stuff meant for cooking is typically not a curing oil, and can and will go rancid... while the stuff used as a wood finish would decidedly be non-ideal for use in cooking recipes.
 
Doctors Woodshop or Mahoneys walnut oil are my suggestions. Our home use tan oak salad bowl, about 8 yrs old now and used almost daily has held up very well. Mahoneys oil and wax was the finish.
 
I agree with the suggestion to use an oil finish, and consider blueberry stains to be a mark of character.

BTW, you understand that you will need to rough turn the wood, let it dry slowly to avoid cracks, then re-turn in 5-12 months when it's dry, right? You won't have to worry about the finish for quite a while. Unless you're going to turn it all thin while still green, and allow it to warp.
 
I tried Walnut oil but it went rancid on the bowl.
If you use supermarket walnut oil you need to read the label to make sure it has no preservatives in it. I make a wax finish out of walnut oil, carnauba wax and bees wax. It does wear off over time but is easy to reapply with a soft cloth. Just put a healthy coat on the bowl and then buff it off with clean soft cloth. I give a small tin of it with every bowl i sell.
 
Depends on what kind of walnut oil. There are different kinds of walnut oil, including cold-pressed and refined walnut oil. Walnut oil (meant for cooking) can go rancid if not stored properly, as it is sensitive to light, heat, and oxygen.

There's the stuff commonly used for cooking, it isn't especially suited for woodworking (Even though by many accounts it can cure.) Then there's the stuff meant for woodworking, most of which is often polymerized (Heat treated) and filtered. Both kinds can be pure walnut oil, but the stuff meant for cooking is typically not a curing oil, and can and will go rancid... while the stuff used as a wood finish would decidedly be non-ideal for use in cooking recipes.
What can I say, I’ve used plain walnut oil from the supermarket and it dried just fine. You need to be careful with “walnut” oil specifically aimed at woodworking as it may contain chemical driers that you definitely don’t want to put on food items.

Did you look at my link?


“ I advise folk who just want to treat a bowl at home to use walnut, it is sold everywhere you buy olive oil and makes a nice salad dressing too”


 
If you use supermarket walnut oil you need to read the label to make sure it has no preservatives in it. I make a wax finish out of walnut oil, carnauba wax and bees wax. It does wear off over time but is easy to reapply with a soft cloth. Just put a healthy coat on the bowl and then buff it off with clean soft cloth. I give a small tin of it with every bowl i sell.
I’ve never heard of preservatives used in cooking oil. Certainly not the stuff we generally use which is cold pressed unfiltered olive oil.
I did look it up though and found this.

IMG_3678.jpeg


It may be different over where you are?
 
First thing first, buy Bob Flexner's finishing book, it will greatly help you make sound finishing decisions based on finishing science.

My votes, in no particular order:
1- no finish. These are work-a-day bowls, just like kitchen cutting boards. Use them and abuse them (within reason, of course). Let them develop a look of their own. Hand wash after each use (NO DISHWASHERS) with warm soap and water, towel dry, and allow to air dry in a drying rack.

2- Tried & True, either the Original polymerized oil/wax, or the Danish which is straight polymerized linseed oil. Adhere to the application instructions with T&T! Very light coats only, no flooding the surface, a thorough wiping afterward, the "after" should feel like nearly dry wood again. Wash as above. Don't rush the final cure, just give it 30 days to cure fully.

Me- never for mineral oil, it never cures and it will wash away, period. No need for it, and who wants to constantly re-oil woodenware? They won't do it. And for wax, for me and food contact, pure beeswax, no processed waxes made for other woodworking purposes. I'd offer carnuba, too, but natural it is rock hard, melts at 180 degrees, you can't hold the block of it to the wood without hurting the wood surface.

(About now, unfinished sounds like the easy way to go.)

And if they are everyday working bowls, think about leaving some extra thickness in the wood so they can be sturdy enough to last. No thinness contests here! And give the upper edge some flair in the shape so they are easy to handle one-handed.
 
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Did you look at my link?
I don't just believe someone else's "authoritative" opinion, no matter who they are. I'll research the science of it from peer reviewed sources to start with and go from there. Bob Flexner's book on finishing is an excellent resource (after I researched what he claimed), my own personal experience and observations are moot points so where I offer those up, I'll note it is just my own opinion..

As I said - there are different types of Walnut Oil - much of it depends on how the oil is Extracted and processed - In the exact same way, Linseed oil (Used for woodworking, etc) and Flaxseed Oil (which is sold in pharmacy aisle as dietary supplement) are ALSO the same exact oil, from the same exact plant (Which by the way its fibers are used to make Linen.) the only difference is in how the oil is extracted. For Linseed vs Flaxseed, it's fairly obvious due to the names used... But for Walnut oil, not so much, as, whatever process may be used, it ends up being called Walnut Oil.

You mentioned Walnut oil for woodworking maybe containing chemicals which is a fair point - Just like Boiled Linseed oil you buy at the finishing store, contains additional solvents and chemical driers - which is why companies like Tried and True will advertise their *Pure* linseed oil as "Polymerized" Linseed oil (Which technically is "almost boiled" - oil is heated under pressure to a specific temperature for a specific time, I think 175 degrees was what I read for a couple hours) so that the oil will dry far more quickly than all natural plain linseed oil (Which I have also used -It takes nearly 3 months to fully cure)
 
First thing first, buy Bob Flexner's finishing book, it will greatly help you make sound finishing decisions based on finishing science.
THIS!

I bought and read his book when it first came out cover to cover, and then re-read various areas and used as a reference for years. Gave it away to someone and then bought his new edition a few years ago and again read it cover to cover. It is THE authoritative wood finishing book (and much easier to read than other finishing books I’ve read over the years).
 
I use walnut oil (Mahoney's). I also usually buff the outside. That's mostly for show/sell. I like the smooth feel of the buffed exterior in my hands. And I leave the interior un-buffed (more of a matte finish from the oil). I feel the combination tells my customers that this is a finely made product (exterior feel) that they should not be afraid of using (because they're not going to ruin a shiny finish on the inside).
I tell customers that they won't have to do anything to the finish if they don't want to - just let it be and it'll develop character and history (patina) from use over time. Every nick and scratch and stain is part of a story. But I say they can redo it - if desired - with walnut oil from the grocery. I figure it's easy for them to obtain and if they're in the "gotta keep putting oil on it" camp, the periodic reapplication won't have time to go rancid if the oil doesn't happen to cure.
"Let it be" is my preference. Sure, the oil will probably eventually wash away, but whatever - people have been eating out of wood bowls for way longer than we've had cans full of chemicals to glop on the wood.
That's my story, anyway.
 
Its best to use a drying oil for utility items that will have metal utensils in surface contact. The wood does need a “solid” to soak into the fibers and seal so that food liquids dont leach into the wood. Oil dries soft, and low gloss. The softness means it gives with the scratches, low gloss means the scratches dont show much. The oil needs to be wet on the surface for 2-3 days to get full absorption into the wood to completely seal it.

I haven't tested the cooking walnut oil yet, dont know if it dries or not. I have tested Mahoney’s walnut oil (pre-polymerized) and it will cure eventually at room temp, ~8 weeks. Raising the drying environment to ~100F (I use a hot box) it will cure in 3-4 days. Havent tested them, but I expect dr woodshop walnut and the pre-polymerized linseed oils will perform about the same.
 
Well, I have used walnut oil on thousands of bowls and have never had any problems with it going rancid. I have used a bunch of Mahoney's and more of the Doctor's Woodshop oil since he is an Oregonian. For the grocery store walnut oils, some will cure, some will not. If you bought it from a grocery store, I would think that maybe you got one that does not cure. Vegetable oils "CAN" go rancid. Ran into a guy at a show once and olive oil was all he used. I would think that at least you would not want any oil to remain on the surface after applying. I won't put anything on my bowls that I can't eat straight out of the can, and that rules out all solvent based oils, even though they are supposed to be "food safe" after "fully cured".

robo hippy
 
Any store bought pure Walnut oil will polymerise unless it’s been adulterated with something else. This is not uncommon, I read a while back that up to 79% of Olive oil on the market has other (cheaper) oils mixed with it. Provided the bottle says pure Walnut Oil it should be fine. Another option is Hemp Oil. This is also a drying oil that should be safe to use on food items. The quickest drying pure oils seem to be Tung and Linseed Oil. Those that read the article I linked to though will know that pure Linseed Oil is not so easily obtained in some areas, it gets mixed with driers. Thankfully the supermarket comes in handy again as pure Linseed Oil is sold as “Flax Seed Oil” over here. You can also bleach Linseed oil quite easily if you want to lighten it. I’ve done this with Linseed and Hemp Oil.
 
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You mentioned Walnut oil for woodworking maybe containing chemicals which is a fair point - Just like Boiled Linseed oil you buy at the finishing store, contains additional solvents and chemical driers - which is why companies like Tried and True will advertise their *Pure* linseed oil as "Polymerized" Linseed oil (Which technically is "almost boiled" - oil is heated under pressure to a specific temperature for a specific time, I think 175 degrees was what I read for a couple hours) so that the oil will dry far more quickly than all natural plain linseed oil (Which I have also used -It takes nearly 3 months to fully cure)

I read many years ago that “Boiled” Linseed Oil isn’t actually boiled as you suggest. The process just makes it look like it’s being boiled.

IMG_3687.jpeg

 
I read many years ago that “Boiled” Linseed Oil isn’t actually boiled as you suggest. The process just makes it look like it’s being boiled.
Right, and actually *I* didn't suggest it is boiled - hence my tendency to put it in quote marks - What I usually mean when talking about "Boiled Linseed Oil" is what is commonly bought off the shelf as "BLO" or Boiled Linseed Oil - This stuff (Miniwax is common US brand) is basically a linseed oil that is thinned (Mineral spirits typically) plus metallic driers and other agents to hasten the curing process (as well as it being applied more thinly)

Pure linseed oil can take many months to cure, and is naturally quite thick/ viscous (about on a par with SAE 30 weight motor oil) however the curing process CAN be accelerated through polymerization process, which like I said is not quite boiling it (and does not add anything else besides heat under pressure) which is commonly marketed as Polymerized Linseed oil (Though many might call it something else, such as Tried & True calling it their "Danish Oil")

Also bear in mind we may be talking about the same thing, but different terminology - But when I refer to natural Polymerized Linseed oil, I do mean the pure stuff with NOTHING added other than it having been heat treated.
 
Ya know something, I just finished cleaning the dinnertime dishes. And as I was washing a birch wood spoon I carved last year, a spoon I'd just used to brown a pound of Italian sausage, and then it spent an hour submerged in the world's finest homemade tomato-based meat sauce (no, I won't share my recipe), I turned my head and saw the two sugar maple cutting boards I made a few years ago, stored a couple feet away. Work-a-day kitchen instruments, and not a lick of wood finish on them. And they look great, and they are developing their own personalities, and there are absolutely no failures nor damage to them. So why do we need to worry endlessly about slathering on curing this and penetrating that and film-building the next thing, when for thousands of years humans have eaten with, and from, woodenware that never had the benefit of modern detergents, wood finishes, nor a single ounce of thought nor care? It was what they had to use, and they used them hard. And we, for some reason, think they are precious pieces of treasured art that have to be protected from the world we may subject them to, while trying to use them for their intended purpose- prepare and eat food.

@Tony Tavenor, I vote for no finish on your bowl collection gift.
 
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A while back there was a wood technologist from Wisconsin who wrote an article in Fine Woodworking magazine and gave excellent reasons for no finish as well as explaining why. Can someone with a better memory for names please come forward with her name and where to find her articles.
 
A while back there was a wood technologist from Wisconsin who wrote an article in Fine Woodworking magazine and gave excellent reasons for no finish as well as explaining why. Can someone with a better memory for names please come forward with her name and where to find her articles.
Dr. Seri Robinson? She did a podcast and I believe an article with fine woodworking, plus lots all over the web. Basic premise is that any finish/glue put in/on wooden utensils/bowls/cutting boards negates woods natural bacteria killing property.
Podcast is Shoptalk Live episode 326
 
Dr. Seri Robinson? She did a podcast and I believe an article with fine woodworking, plus lots all over the web. Basic premise is that any finish/glue put in/on wooden utensils/bowls/cutting boards negates woods natural bacteria killing property.
Podcast is Shoptalk Live episode 326
Thank you Russel she is the one to follow on the subject.
A good comparison would be a wooden cutting board versus a plastic cutting board, if cared for as she states the wood will self clean where as the plastic will build up bacteria in the surface cuts.
 
There are many threads discussing this and just as many opinions. Soap and water are not a good thing for any wood finish. Do a search on this site. Mahoney’s walnut oil is a good choice but you’ll need to reoil periodically no matter what you use.
"Soap and water are not a good thing for any wood *finish*." I'm not prepared to defend or refute this claim, but I will say that mild soap and warm water (i.e. hand washing) are, for all intents and purposes, harmless to the *wood* itself. The finish, though, well...

Wood is an amazing substance. I heard it once said by wood scientists that they do not know how long wood can last, or rather if we can keep it dry, and not have it in an environment conducive to decomposition, wood products will last indefinitely. Wood structures have been standing for a thousand years and more all over the globe. We can wet it as often as we want, as long as it is wet only as long as necessary, then allowed to fully dry. Prolonged dampness is what sets up rot, not necessarily constant submersion. (There is an entire industry that dredges sunken logs from waterways where they've been for hundreds of years or more, and the wood is in near perfect condition. And archiologists unearth wood products all the time that have been buried in low oxygen environments and the items are in nearly the same condition as when they were in use.)

There was a local bar/restaurant near me with a south Pacific theme. One of their gimmicks was wood plates. The problem was the wood plates had an industrial plastic finish on them, a finish that was unable to withstand a constant environment of exposure to sharp knives and forks and spoons, and to add insult to injury, they were cleaned and sanitized in commercial dishwashing machines with scalding hot water and harsh chemical cleaners, including chlorine bleach-based sanitizer. After my second trip there, and second meal off a plate whose plastic-coated surface was flaking and the exposed wood becoming fuzzy, and the plates reeking of bleach, we stopped eating there.

Mahoney's walnut oil would be a fine choice for a display piece, but it serves no purpose, other than temporary cosmetics, for a piece that is subject to daily use and daily cleaning, only to require periodic re-application. Not to speak for Mike Mahoney, but he builds bowls made for daily use, not for decoration. If he applies walnut oil to a new bowl, it's to make it look pretty on a sales shelf, the oil finish serves no purpose to the bowl in the kitchen.

Let's be honest, non-woodworker recipients of the functional wood bowl, plate, or utinsel, 99% of them, are never going to re-apply oil, or any finish, as suggested by the maker of the piece. Not more than once, anyway. We will make them think, scare them to think, the piece is so precious, so fragile, that they may not use it much at all, or won't want the bother of it.

Build the bowls and plates so they have a bit of extra mass (vs. an art piece) to withstand the knocks and dings of daily life, and give them a shape that makes it easy and confident to handle, full of food, with one hand. And clean them with mild soap and warm water immediately after use, with clean towel and thorough air drying before storage. No sitting damp and food covered in the sink overnight. And no microwave cooking use. And skip the finish application. Do these things and the bowls and plates will last a lifetime. Or two.
 
From Robin Woods website:

“All my woodware is treated with this (pure Linseed) oil, the dry wood soaks it up and with time it sets in the wood and no further treatment is necessary. At home we never re oil any of our plates and bowl, just use them wash them in hot water with detergent and let them dry. If you want to keep your bowls looking bright and fresh then an occasional wipe with walnut oil will do the job.”

Just one point of view but he does make a living making and selling bowls.
 
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